Painkillers killing me...

[PD.]

i find the first day or so to be all psychological, the physical stuff dont really hit me til around half way thru the second day if im unlucky which in turn makes day three hell as no sleep and "riding the bike" all nite takes a big toll on your physical and mental stamina. Restavit is ok if used sparingly so dont just go throwin a heap of them down ya throat as the more ya take the less they work and this tolerance develops extremely quick making for a shocker of a time, terrible come down like effects imo. Depending on your "habit" things can be over rather quickly, like 3 days or hang on for a week or more, though tapering off the last few days.

Its the pysical pain that gets me coupled with anxious tension in my legs. If it really does get too much, a quarter dose of your opi8 of choice plus a couple of nurofen a panadol and maybe a beer should get ya thru without too much guilt, hey, ya mite even get some sleep , it makes the next stretch a hell of alot easier imo.

Im like a freakin seesaw though, i always lose self control this time of year ;)

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

edit: i cant spell!

Edited November 18, 2008 by PD.

[FancyPants]

Today is the first day of fully being off Codeine, yesterday I dosed a small amount for a headache via some cough syrup. Last nights sleep was appalling and my legs and head hurt today beyond comprehension. I spent most of the morning from 7am..cause no sleep... out in the garden trying desperately to keep my mind off it. So far so good. I feel quite okay but really don't want to do anything more than try and sleep and kill this horrible pain in my legs..its diabolical it really is. So I'll eat some lunch and then try and do some more but really want to sleep my head hurts like a mother f#$@*r..! I don't have any meds what so ever around me and am afraid even if I did I would definitely neck them all in one go right now. I'm kinda preparing myself for a healing brew in a couple of days so I'm watching my diet..as I look at a cask of Red wine in the fridge and grimace and have to say no. anyone wanna swap legs for a couple of weeks can PM me.

H.

I'll swap your legs? I have to warn you that mine don't work very well and you'll have to sit in a damn wheelchair all friggin day ;)

I've been going through on and off codeine addiction for around two years now. I always extract the codeine from various sources, though of course there's always the remainder ibuprofen/paracetamol. I personally don't blame the pharma companies (well, not for my problem anyway, but I sure blame them for being greedy carrrnts). Half the problem is that my pain from kidney stones and urological infections is always going to be an issue - whether the pain is bad or OK. I've quit for months on end at a time but then the pain comes back and codeine is the best thing. When I start taking it again I try my damndest to keep the doses as low as possible, and try to stave off taking a dose until I defecate. TMI? Well, I managed to keep my tolerance quite low for about 6 months by making sure I didn't take a dose until I'd had a poo, because when I started taking them sooner, the constipation started, the tolerance skyrocketed (to around 1gram of codeine - no ibu/para - per day) which is quite expensive too. Then because the constipation got worse, the pain from constipation was really bloody bad and then just took more codeine because I was mistaking the const pain from the stone pain. By taking something like Avil or Avomine with my dose I could also lower the dose and it would help with the nausea. When I needed to quit, I would generally wean off it, but a couple of times had to go cold turkey and it was as bad as the oxy WD I experienced though the oxy dependance was nowhere near as bad as the codeine.

Someone mentioned Tramadol, well it might be alright for easing WD symptoms relating to the opiate receptors, but tramadol can be nasty. If you've got an addictive personality I would recommend staying away from it. It has it's own addictiveness from very nice effects (you can make it have opiate or ecstasy-type effects), but if you abuse tramadol you risk lowering your seizure threshold. I was using the Rx amount of tramadol when the pain was quite bad, and the dose was high, after a little while I started getting tremors in my jaw and limbs! Scary as hell. Made worse when I needed codeine on top of tram or was just really tired as well. I'm saying I would prefer a codeine addiction than a tram one.

I'm not a fan of alcohol anymore, so I'm biased in not recommended it. I guess keeping your alcy intake low while experiencing WDs would be OK but meh, not for me personally.

I know what you mean about worrying about codeine while you're out on weekends. I would pre-prepare enough doses for a whole weekend and put it in an empty softdrink bottle with warning labels all over it and the content percentage per ml, since it would usually vary greatly depending in how much of a hurry I was in while preparing. I would also take my syringe(needleless) and small bottle of lube in a plastic bag and take it wherever I went. It's a massive pain in the arse (occassionally literally ;) )

It doesn't feel nice to know you have a habit of this sort, I know. I don't even think I have an addictive personality, but opiates sure seem to be my weak spot. I didn't hide what I was doing from close friends. In fact while my addiction was at its worst and particularly when I was also using tram and oxy in alternation or concurrence with code, I would write down all the doses of whatever I'd taken, and whatever other drugs I'd taken at the time... just in case something happened I didn't want anyone thinking I offed myself on purpose, or someone else did it. I didn't want to die (still don't) and was still very careful.

I was going to write a lot more, but I think I'll just stop now I know I didn't really answer your question about help quitting, sorry, but I wanted you to know you weren't the only one here with a similar problem. After reading some of the other replies I see I'm not the only other one either.

[mauve]

good luck with the healing brew. We are with you

[Garbage]

Nitrous Oxide could be the medicament.

[mauve]

or Nigella sativa ? i've just read the N.sativa thread...apparently it has been tested for helping with withdrawals.

[PhoenixSon]

Might be an idea when your up all night to do some reading! Scartissue by anthony kiedis is a great read.

Also might be an idea is to get into exercise and weights keeps yourself occupied uses up energy helps clean your body and you get yourself a well earned natural buzz.

[Chiral]

Day 2..full on depression and a sense of complete hollowness..somewhat uplifted with a brief chat on line with fairly decent geezer here at SAB. Legs...thats the worse feeling...just cant stop jiggling them and rubbing them..its almost uncontrollable..I am resisting any other meds, because if I go out to the Doc's or even to the chemist I will fall foul again..cups of tea and cheese and tomato sandwiches with bouts of weed pulling in the garden is where its at. Sweating for no reason sometimes. When I take my mind back say 5 yrs ago I was a 70kg healthy male non smoking doing yoga 2 times a week and working a physical job outdoors. Now I'm 80+kgs no excercise due to recent operation and jobless. Moan moan bitch bitch..that's nothing compared to some poor ass kids sitting on the streets of Indo in 45 degree heat everyday begging for food with no health care or even any money to buy any. We are lucky to live where we do and have the options and privileges that come with a great economy. Its really stupid that we forget about the suffering of others and feel sorry for ourselves and take stupid things like pain killers just so we can feel fluffy or altered. Let me babble on its helping me pass the time and see myself for the pitiful man I have become. I have nothing to fear and should be happy that I have a healthy beautiful girl and a gorgeous wife. Why then when I remind myself of all these great things...do i have these demons that follow me around. I was so healthy and clean for so long...and I remember the day when I fell..its like huh..I haven't gotten wasted for a while..I can do that..no problem.

Its time to think of that lil kid or the armless man begging in Indo and carve that into my mind forever.

I found something to dose with that will see me thru hopefully.. and I can ride the codeine camel back out to the desert and leave him there.

H.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Hunab Ku

[faustus]

withdrawal is the easy part. staying off drugs is the hard part.

seek out natural highs otherwise the vacuous feeling that compelled you to take drugs in the first place will return. discover a new hobby, or renew a long forgotten one.

[Undergrounder]

yeah man make sure you know what you're doing each day before you wake up so when it comes to it, you're not shitkickign around trying to amuse yourself..

[Vertmorpheus]

best of luck with it HK. Probly watch the alkyhole, just what the addictive personality doesnt need at the best of times and in the longrun its usually worse for ppls sleep patterns than anything. GABA teas might help, some kava if you can find a caring sharing type, get a massage (or even give one), UG makes a VERY good point about knowing what youre doing before you get up... someone get that squirrel some nuts. Staying properly hydrated is very important with back issues, I can do all the right things but if my fluids get a lil down it will hurt like a motherfucker in an iron maiden factory. Sex... all you can get (well, within the realm of reason, old Mrs. Smith up the road might be grateful the first time but the 11th she might get a lil distracted).

More controversially, tell someone. Not just us, loveable pack of rogues though we are, if Mrs. HK doesn't know, either the regime you were on or what youre trying to do now, might be in your best interests to fess up. a, women (especially the ones you actually want around for any length of time) know everything. If they don't, you're still much safer assuming they do, and lets face it the old mersyndol packet rattle is pretty distinctive to any woman capable of reproduction, even from the other end of the house.

b, sounds like you have a good thing, and good things IME tend to be pretty understanding but moreso when kept in the loop... particularly with a lil person running around, it might be a lil too easy for someone to assume you seeming antsy or short is down to something they've done, rather than you're body and psyche being forced to deal with the grey lil shade that we call day to day reality.

Bits of it aren't bad, I'd recommend checking out... well just about any of it, if you have a child along, they see things every minute that we'd need a handful of cubes to pay real attention to. Teaching others or just absorbing their reactions is very good to take you out of your own little bubble.

If it helps any, I'd recommend finding a way, anyway, to remind yourself on a daily basis not to take life so personally... it's not like you came with a manual and even if you had have, most ppl you deal with and the world around you is unlikely to get around to reading ALL of it, probably just the quickstart section... so don't take bastards personally, don't take unreasonable social expectations, toxic economic conditions or a basically terminally ill social structure and world order, personally.

having a higher than expected expectation of fun level, cant help you there, lifelong affliction here too... as the wise man once wrote, itsn ot like im using, just that my body has developed a massive drug deficiency... or maybe just an allergy to the more crass aspects of existing... either way its a fucker of a thing to have on board (some ppl, actually it seems many ppl are pretty happy just doing the Standardised Life thing, good on em I guess) but then it's the source of just about all decent art, culture and human experience too... the constant looking for... whatever.

I wrote this for HK and all the other quitters, troopers, dopers and unravelled cassette tapes left on the nature strip of life.

Camels Led By Scarecrows

waking duskmares and in between places

soulless brisk walkings, past disinterred faces

wearching for what's lost, without any traces

trying to be like the rest.

dreaming of living and living to dream

you cant just believe them, they don't know what you mean

when so many bright truths turn out so obscene

trying to seem like the rest.

waiting for nothing and holding much less

never what you're about, just about your address

when part of your failing has built their success

trying to live like the rest.

drowning in drought and eaten by your own bones

they cannot accept it, they won't hear your groans

and would you believe it, they just called in their loans

trying to eat like the rest.

touching lost windows, the faint scent of dealings

which may look like roses, but feel more like rough kneelings

we all try to smile while they burn our old healings

trying to feel like the rest.

living in prisons mass assembled from flesh

force fed dead leavings, charged double for fresh

led silent each day along funnels and mesh

trying to be free like the rest.

stay strong ppls, please try not to beat yourselves up over daring to be born with a sense of ... absence.

VM

[woof woof woof]

excersize! natural endorphins! doesnt have to be heavy exersize. cycling or swimming are good choices.

eat healthy comfort foods.... dark chocolate.... yummy!!!

look up how you can boost your endorphins!

sorry.... just read about your operation..... but if you can swim..... do it! 30 mins a day.

Edited November 19, 2008 by woof woof woof

[Chiral]

awsome responses..some of them i look at and go yeah...I really should do more of that..anyways day 3 and cant sit around here all day..Mind expansion and myself are going out bushwalking and taking in some fresh air today..that keeps me totally away from the house and gives me something else to think about all day.

laterz

H.

[Evil Genius]

Yeah Hunab, go out as much as you can! It helps to leave the places where you usually did drugs! Keep us infomed! Stay strong! Best Wishes Eg

[hebrew]

PD wrote i am always loose self control this time of year

i can 100%agree with that, and most of us here know how hard it is to break this bitch, she grabs you by the balls and wont let go, its hard man but what you are doing will pay off. but once the physical effects go dont think you can jsut do it again. man truly on and off opiate for a long time me and everytime i kick it give it a few months or so and you think i can do it i did it before, you forget how fuckgin bad it really is when you come off so you create this big cycle of using and quiting. try and really stay off them, even in years to come dont forget. not that i have listened to this wisdomw myself but really it is important

like yoruself day 3 for me although i did have a little this morning to take that edge of so i guess its day one again.

excercise if you can do it will help, but fuck its hard to even walk around the place let alone go for a ride or someshit, but you will feel better, if you can do it.

hot and cold sweats i hate, weak limbs and jittery legs fucking awful.

best of luck Hunab

hang in there things will start getting better soon. be proud of yoruself for doing what you are and for getting to day three its a long 3 days but soon it will be day 4 nd then 5 then a month and then a year. hang in there

[Chiral]

Well I went 15 days without any painkillers..I distracted my self continuously and dosed on other substances that landed in my lap. Today I woke up with a mild headache and it progressed to the point that by midday that I was becoming nausea's from the splitting pain in my skull. I tried to think of something, anything to kill it off or make it less painful. I couldn't find anything..I tried a reefer of Caapi with some brug and mull mix and that helped only slightly to take the edge off. It came back so strong that I couldn't even go outside as the sunlight would make it ten times worse. I took my young one up to the shops and walked around but could not handle it any longer and found myself in the chemist buying some painkillers. I'm gonna have to see the quack and see what I can sort out with him. I thought I may have got somewhere after 2 weeks but my legs are still giving me gip. Oh well these things happen. I've looked at my diet and its very simple and healthy although I probably don't drink enuff water so I will address that and see how that goes. Was all hyped up and prepared to do a brew tonight but will have to abandon that now as I have fucked up my diet with painkillers. there has been some seriously cool support with this topic and I thank those that have given some sincere advice and have been down this road as well.

H.

[faustus]

hunab,

drug addiction isn't binary: it's not a matter of being either 100% clean or 100% junkie.

so you took some opiates to deal with some pain (or you tricked yourself into thinking that was the reason)... just start afresh tomorrow. 2 weeks without opiates means you no longer have a physical addiction to them, so that's commendable in itself

regarding the pain, go to your doctor and ask for tramadol, some ppl on SAB might disagree but it's less addictive than opiates.

and then maybe try to see a specialist about your leg

[Auxin]

twix is right, not all use is abuse. Sometimes you just need painkillers for their intended purpose. It gets difficult in the case of constant or frequently recurring pain, I can relate to that, but then ya just gotta find non-drug ways to deal with the pain both to reduce it and to let it have less psychological impact and use painkillers when it passes the unbarable point.

The main thing that I'd add to what twix said is since you have had alot of troubles with them try to not use them even for the intended purpose unless its really required or you might train your body to produce pain to get drugs. I've seen that happen.

But when you do take them out of genuine necessity dont beat your self up or worry, that only adds needless stress. When you do whats really needed theres nothing wrong with that. Infrequent medical use is fine.

[Siggor]

twix is right, not all use is abuse.

awesome quote, cheers for that. what else is usable, that could have the same effects for pain?

[baphomet]

Today I woke up with a mild headache and it progressed to the point that by midday that I was becoming nausea's from the splitting pain in my skull.. I couldn't even go outside as the sunlight would make it ten times worse. I took my young one up to the shops and walked around but could not handle it any longer and found myself in the chemist buying some painkillers.

That sounds like a migraine which may require pain control but 90% of other headaches are from dehydration and the best thing for them is a glass of water (migraines are different though). When you say that you found yourself in the chemist buying pain killers, is it safe to assume that you are talking about codeine? If so I think that's a cop out if I am to be perfectly honest, and I suspect you may have had the intention whether conscious or not to wind up in the chemist buying that cheap nasty shit that you seem to be having such a problem with, if not you would have probably remained lying down in a dark room and rode it out with just a couple of panadol or something. If you had a migraine then there may be a need for pain killers of some description but there is absolutely no excuse for someone who is trying to give up codeine to relapse at all IMO, let alone after 15 days. If you want a pain killer that is going to be better in many cases than codeine and is used in intensive care wards, then try tramal (as long as it doesn't give you seizures), as has been pointed out here by several members, it is far less addictive and has very little recreational value IMO.

I have been free of all pharmaceutical drugs for more than 5 years after quitting methodone, heroin, etc and I don't see myself needing any pain killers in the near future either. So if I can go that long without ANY painkillers (or synthetic drugs of any description), even whilst breaking my toes and receiving other sports related injuries on a regular basis then I don't see why you can't? (except for extreme situations) At least you should be able to avoid codeine!

"2 weeks without opiates means you no longer have a physical addiction to them"

Bullshit!!

EDIT: Maybe I'm being a bit picky but I thought while I'm at it I may as well go through some other things in this thread that I disagree with, it's just my opinion and I know I can be a little blunt, no offense to the people who wrote it, andy is a great guy as is twix by all accounts.

"I would suggest going to the Dr and getting a WD pack, usually something like some diazepam, doloxene or pandeine forte (maybe not this one but it would at least be better to ween your self on than excess nurofen+) and if your lucky some catapress."

Diazepam used to be given out by doctors for "rapid detox" from heroin but it is not as common these days and I doubt whether many doctors would give it to you for a codeine addiction. I would recommend staying as far away from it as possible unless you want a soul destroying addiction that will make your addiction to weak over the counter meds look like a joke.

Also I don't see how you would need to be lucky to get catapres, they are just blood pressure medication and were handed out like lollies last I knew.

Panadine forte contains 30mg codeine in each tablet, each neurofen contains 12.8 if I'm not mistaken so I think this would be defeating the purpose somewhat.

"If that doesn't work maybe look into a 2 week subutex reduction program, I know it seems pretty full on but it is a good treatment."

Talk about out of the frying pan and into the fire

"regarding the pain, go to your doctor and ask for tramadol, some ppl on SAB might disagree but it's less addictive than opiates."

Tramadol is still an opiod analgesic and (despite what the drug company says) it is addictive but I would agree that it is less addictive than many other drugs and takes longer for addiction to take hold. I agree with twix, if you are going to detox from codeine this is the best drug to use (in combination with catapres).

Edited November 29, 2008 by baphomet

[Evil Genius]

It took me more than one year to stop smoking completely! At First i stopped smoking ciggies and evertime i couldnt stand the craving anymore, i smoked a nicotine bong! With every month, it was easier not to smoke. It doesnt mean that you have start from scratch again! Just continue as if nothing happened untill you can stand the withdrawl pain without meds! bye Eg

edit: oh, and take great care with tramadol! It isnt very addictive but it lowers your seizure threshold eminently! Never take more than 400 mg! Especially not if you are driving or something like that! Just one seizure in a bad moment is enough to take you out the game!

Edited November 29, 2008 by Evil Genius

[kushizm]

I cry when I read this. The first post is pretty much me. Fucked up thing, I'm a pharmacy technician and student. Worse part, the legs, teh yawning.. Ever felt like your legs werent even part of your body?????Thats what it feels like, actually kicking the habit. Not even stabbin them with a pen will help lol...

It's always around, for free! Thats the hard thing for me. It's so easy if I feel like crap to just pop them....

Its really hard as well.... When you actually do have pain or something that ganja dosnt fix. It comes to a point in the mind, am I using for therapeutics? Is the pain in my back that bad? or have I given myself up to this nonsense? Anyone asking this question knows the answer....

The only thing that has ever worked for me. Since tapering, well, Ill end up dosing em without even caring...

First thing, you have to keep busy. Secondly, you have to be positive, Thirdly, exercise is key. Fourthly, marijuana slightly helps. Fifthly, keep those enablers away. I don't reccomend much replacement of addictions. But, I have had Kratom tea help, ever so much.

IT's also sad, when you can't follow your own advice that you know works for yourself. I guess I'm just not ready to be done. Good luck guys. If anyone ever needs to chat my AIM is deoxynoeled .

[Chiral]

This give's me some hope on finding that oh great natural remedy for headacahes..

http://manu.montana.com/

H.

[the germinator]

Kushizm gives excellent advice man, I spent a good 10 years jumping from 1 habit to the next, it so takes it outa' ya'!

The last habit I broke really showed me what hangin' out is all about. I didn't realise how much time slipped by, I started using 0.5mg of alprazolam every now and then for anxiety, before I knew it 5 years had passed by and I was on 8mg a day (at least). I moved inerstate and stopped taking them, it took about 14 months to get over the physical part which lasted about 14 times longer than the mental part. I honestly thought the medication had changed my CNS or somethin' 'cos it felt as if my soul was on fire and all my bones were smashed, I felt like I was holding off seizures and this made me walk around really tense all the time which made more pain.

I'm through with that stuff but, I don't feel the same as I did before, could just be age or it could o' fucked me up subtly.

Exercise is good, meditation (real meditation ie Qigong) is awsome as long as you can do it properly without distractions, actually the best thing to do is your own thing, whatever you lose yourself in is the best thing for you.

I hope your journey is much smoother than mine was, remember that usually if another medication takes your withdrawals away, it is probably even stronger than what it's substituting, probably harder to jump off as well.

All the best, I know your pain, it won't last.

[Siggor]

just one more tip , a tiny bit of mandrake to smoke i tried it last night relaxed my legs but made my head worse, sleep was a little restless, but was but than other times, a tiny bit is about a 3rd to 1/2 matchhead worth as tst said in previous posts.

[blog]

I started using 0.5mg of alprazolam every now and then for anxiety, before I knew it 5 years had passed by and I was on 8mg a day (at least). I moved inerstate and stopped taking them, it took about 14 months to get over the physical part which lasted about 14 times longer than the mental part. I honestly thought the medication had changed my CNS or somethin' 'cos it felt as if my soul was on fire and all my bones were smashed, I felt like I was holding off seizures and this made me walk around really tense all the time which made more pain.

That is frightening, but it's something you should have never let happen. I started on 0.5mg 10 years ago, and still on 0.5mg (1- 4 times a day). It just takes self disipline. My motivation for having such discipline is knowing what would occur if I kept on increasing the dose, such information that you also surely knew, but chose to ignore.

The thought of forgetting my xanax or just not being able to get a script for 2 days because of a weekend etc, and seizuring or having reverse SUPER anxiety was enough to make sure I never became physically addicted. I also wonder if people's brains are wired differently, and for some to obtain anti anxiety comfort they require sedation. Sedation is very rapidly lost with xanax, however it's anti axiety effects are still very active. If a person was to associate feeling relaxed with sedation then I can imagine a person constantly up;ing their dose, in a belief they needed to do so.

Your story is more positive motivation to keep a control for everyone.