Terminal weirdness

[trucha]

I want to also start a discussion on jointing and odd termination issues.

I'll start out with some extremes and deal with it more when I have time and a decent conection to upload a bunch more images

Cristation is the most extreme terminal weirdness I know of

The upper left is the pachanoi from Ecuador at the HBG

The right is a JuulXperuvianus from Sacred Succulents

The lower left is a photo by Evil Genius (who gave me permission to use this image) showing an unlabelled crest that MIGHT be a macrogonus crest. Note the occasional presence of tiny awlshaped solitary centrals and grey felting.

However this is pretty odd too.

This thing is a Harry Johnson collection he called aff. huanucoensis. That is about all that is known about it. I've not yet seen its flowers.

Normal tip is on the left but check out what is going on on the right. Pay particular attention to the constrictions, partial jointing, total jointing and odd scarring as well as that weird lack of effective areole separation that occurred at the apical meristem on the column on the left in the right hand image.

I will revisit this again with many more images taken of different plants. Some are posted here already.

Look also at the HBG macrogonus pictures I have posted under How to recognize a macrogonus for some more instances of jointing behavior and watch for constrictions, complete & partial jointing and that odd scarring.

Please add images of jointed cacti as this is going to get not just weird but interesting.

I have some ideas but far more questions than answers.

[strangebrew]

Here's an interesting photo of Bob Resslers with 4 separate plants displaying simultaneous termination and regrowth. Must be environmental in this case.

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/...075508785kcPlaW

[PD.]

I recently received a cutting in the mail of a south oz plant that is similar in alot ways to Huntingtons macro, strangebrews SA one and there is also one at Fields. I took the bottom off the cutting as it was a tad untidy and i wanted to clean it up just incase. When i cut into it i noticed little air pockets all through the cacti. These werent holes from any pest such as slugs, caterpillars etc as there was no entry wound and the holes were completley sealed off from one another. They could have been damage from a microscopic pest but all the "holes" had healthy flesh with no signs of any bruising/rotting or any signs of being consumed in any way. This didnt occur from being dropped or squashed either, as i said, all the flesh was firm and healthy with no signs at all of damage

Has anyone seen this before because it seems to me that this could be a reason for the termination of tips as i haven't seen this before and i have cut ALOT of cacti.

[spunwhirllin]

I've had one cactus that displayed this curiosity.I cut a tulhuayacenis clone into small 3'' chunks for propagation and noticed about 1/3 of the vascular bundle was gone from the center 3'' chunk.Like a pencil had been shoved through the center.I've not noticed any side effects,yet.Oddly enough,this particular cutting also had a terminal tip.

[strangebrew]

Actually I cut thru one of those macros? the other day and found a hole like that in the core. It had been abused a bit and I thought it may have been something related to sun damage as I have found them to be prone to sunburn at the height of summer.

First time for me and I've chunked up a few.

[trucha]

Perhaps roundworms?

I got a fairly crappy photo of one last year (>1/2" long) I will try to locate and post.

The contours of those pockets look like something is eating it. Rot pockets are similar but colored and containing at least some slime.

Thanks for that! I will try some exploratory dissection the next time I encounter this and see if there is a positive correlation.

[strangebrew]

Funny you mentioning rot pockets as something like that happened to me before but I think it may have been with a different clone & some of the holes were clean. This is why I thought it (the above phemonema) may be something to do with heat & tissue damage.

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...52&hl=holes

[trucha]

I don't know if this creature is involved but the Opuntia next to this pachanoi KK339 developed weird healed looking holes in it in the months following this shot (from last summer) and some scarring reminiscent of the oddities above.

To me this looks like a terrestrial roundworm of some sort. It does not have two heads it was just moving its head fast in the process of moving its body forwards.

It moved pretty much like a leech does (by this I mean the terrestrial leeches that are so abundant in NSW) and was really fast so I could not get a good shot.

I have never seen one before or since.

Whatever is causing those pockets they seem more like something eaten than rotted since they are so clean and semidry or at least not wet like one would expect with rot. A burrowing creature of some sort would be my guess but if it is just pockets it leaves me wondering.

Some really weird rot came in with the last S. hystrix I tried to obtain. It spread rapidly up the vascular bundle before radiating outward and literally dissolving pockets of gas generating slime. I got some really great photos but am not sure anyone would appreciate my posting them.

Edited June 3, 2008 by trucha

[PD.]

dubl trubl......

Edited June 3, 2008 by Passive Daemon

[PD.]

Whatever is causing those pockets they seem more like something eaten than rotted since they are so clean and semidry or at least not wet like one would expect with rot. A burrowing creature of some sort would be my guess but if it is just pockets it leaves me wondering.

Yes a burrowing creature was my first thought but the holes are definitely seperate and to me it didnt look like anything had eaten the flesh once i had a close look. The holes were just too clean looking and there was no evidence whatsoever of any insect or fungal activity.

Looks like im gonna hafta go get a trailor load of this macro thingy and cut it all up

.

[AndyAmine.]

yeah, I have also seen this in a fair few trich's I have cut before too, one in particular had lots of them and the flesh was very 'grainy' and crystalized.

[trucha]

Pretty cool. Maybe its some metabolic thing related to drought stress or physical thing related to high heat but I sure do not know. It would be interesting to know more about it.

Have you looked at it with a microscope? If you don't have one they can be found pretty cheaply.

The little crystal druses that come out of cactus are pretty amazing even if just round balls. That's what those grainy things are. Little ball shaped druses probably of calcium oxalate although other minerals can also crystallize in cacti.

If a person were to make a tea out of one of those cacti - for the traditional purpose of washing the hair - there would be a white layer that settled out on the bottom of it. That material would be almost pure sand made out of those druses.

Edited June 4, 2008 by trucha

[strangebrew]

Wow, check this out! I found the core of the one I mentioned finding the hole in above & cut it open. The same was done with an old PC core which was also dyhydrated but it's inner was totally solid.

Maybe these crystalline fleshed types have a tendency to break apart in drought or under extreme heat. You would imagine these spaces would expand with further heat or stress.

Makes me wonder about this trait & rot susceptibility too as this clone is a bit prone.

[Ace]

Strangebrew, that looks very odd! Just to confirm, was those specimens T. pachanoi (Predominant Cultivar)?

Also (wee bit of a hijack), are you able to grow those sliced (and holey) specimens as cuttings now that they have had a chop down the guts? I am quite curious as I have often wondered if it would be a good way to double your pupping stocks, but unsure if they would actually survive such a brutal slicing (as opposed to the usual horizontal slice). Cheers

[strangebrew]

No Ace it's the plant most of this thread is referring to and no it won't grow now as it is totally stripped of flesh!

Actually crystalline isn't the right word for this plant, "spongy" is - that's how it looks and behaves - it's like a concertina. It tends to plump up fairly quickly with adequate moisture and even with the low rain fall here it can be splitting along it's rib margins by the end of winter. It's flesh must be much less solid than others & full of pockets.

[Ace]

no it won't grow now as it is totally stripped of flesh!

Haha, I hadnt noticed that - I was thinking the core was unusually wide compared to most that I've seen!

it's the plant most of this thread is referring to

Sorry, I cant seem to keep up. There have been a few different species mentioned so far (hence my confusion) and I noticed you mentioned 'PC' when you posted the pics, so made a connection. Was it macrogonus? I only ask because I was just de-potting all of my cacti (about to move house) and happened to take a few cuttings and noticed an air pocket in one of my PC pachanois.

[PD.]

please get pics ace.

[strangebrew]

The same was done with an old PC core which was also dyhydrated but it's inner was totally solid.

Yeah I can see how confusing it all must be.

[kadakuda]

i bought these seeds from Cactus Heaven as Trichocereus pachanoi.....don't look like that to me!

i have a bunch of these plants growing now, and also had a variegated one which died.

but today i noticed in the stragglers pot (the smallest of the batch.....around 10cm tall compared to the biggest which are 30cm). the 2 absolute smallest are starting to do *something*....

any thoughts? not noticeable damage from bugs or pests, and no other causes for concern as far as disease go...that i can tell anyway.

i have another non-trich columnar that threw out a pup that "grew into itself" then stopped....it now has a pup of its own.

[AndyAmine.]

Just thought Id post an update on my double(triple?) headed lophie.

Its a touch dehydrated but most of the wrinkles are from downward pressure.

Here is how it started, as you can see its began with one terminal pup then another one sprung out.

Edited July 19, 2008 by AndyAmine.

[AndyAmine.]

Has anyone else got lophies that are doing this, I'd love to see some pics.

[Ace]

Andy thats easily the most bizarre loph I've ever seen! You must be one proud daddy

The only similar thing I've seen was my first loph/trich graft that failed due to my cutting the loph too high (in an attempt to keep the rooted section alive and re-pupping) and missing the meristem. The rooted section went on to pup out of the old meristem and now the head looks like it was the original one (joins up nicely with the old 'shoulders') and there is a bub pup on the side similar to yours. Only thing is mine looks like a very standard loph - yours has two heads coming off one body! I love a good freak

[AndyAmine.]

Yeah, its an interesting one thats for sure.

Now I look closely at the top pic I can see that there are 2 meristems in that little pup.

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next year or so.

[Moses]

Has anyone else got lophies that are doing this, I'd love to see some pics.

here ya go AA this is something similar i think on one of my seedlings,not as cool as ur double

wish id taken shots of it first forming now

i have a few strange young lops mainly columnar,which i think is from acccidently watering the seedlings with gibberilic acid when only weeks old.

[t st tantra]

i have what is most likely a pc ,which had its growing tip eaten by caterpillars.

so it grew a pup from the top.

that pup grew then terminated 'naturally' and repupped.in the same way as the peruvianus of strangebrew.

i think this may be an example of learned behavior in plants!

t s t .

[prier]

a bit of terminal weirdness, no idea what caused it, maybe just bugs.

an update on ferrets earlier pic.