Terminal weirdness

[trucha]

I want to also start a discussion on jointing and odd termination issues.

I'll start out with some extremes and deal with it more when I have time and a decent conection to upload a bunch more images

Cristation is the most extreme terminal weirdness I know of

The upper left is the pachanoi from Ecuador at the HBG

The right is a JuulXperuvianus from Sacred Succulents

The lower left is a photo by Evil Genius (who gave me permission to use this image) showing an unlabelled crest that MIGHT be a macrogonus crest. Note the occasional presence of tiny awlshaped solitary centrals and grey felting.

However this is pretty odd too.

This thing is a Harry Johnson collection he called aff. huanucoensis. That is about all that is known about it. I've not yet seen its flowers.

Normal tip is on the left but check out what is going on on the right. Pay particular attention to the constrictions, partial jointing, total jointing and odd scarring as well as that weird lack of effective areole separation that occurred at the apical meristem on the column on the left in the right hand image.

I will revisit this again with many more images taken of different plants. Some are posted here already.

Look also at the HBG macrogonus pictures I have posted under How to recognize a macrogonus for some more instances of jointing behavior and watch for constrictions, complete & partial jointing and that odd scarring.

Please add images of jointed cacti as this is going to get not just weird but interesting.

I have some ideas but far more questions than answers.

[trucha]

Yet more variations on a theme (all at the Huntington)

First let's look at a pachanoi from Ecuador. Interestingly this is the same accession as the cresting/monstrose thing that usually looks a bit spinier. This one growing in a bit more shade than the others with the same accession number at the Huntington.

This is a shot of their peruvianus(oid) things. They lost the accession data but think these were probably field collected by Harry Johnson back in the 1950s. Probably as seeds not cuttings but that is a guess.

More of the same. The totally upright peruvianus(oid) interestingly bears the same accession number as their sprawling prostrate decumbent plant.

Their macrogonus showing a similar weirdness and jointing behavior. Again notice the similar pattern and scarring on these.

Huanucoensis from Johnson's seeds collected back in the 1950s.

Caused by a pathogen? A virus, nematodes, endophyte? A mutagen? I presently have no clue just a bunch of unaswered questions.

I've seen this occur more places than just there.

It seems rather common in many of the macrogonus sorts that actually seem to fit the published description but SEEMS to shows up when planted in the ground more than in container grown collections.

Whatever the reason two or more areoles fail to separate at the apical meristem. This can be terminal to the termination causing total jointing or it can be partial causing jointing with the column staying continual up one side and invaginated to varying degrees on the other.

I just wanted to toss this out there since I think it is really cool looking.

Edited August 22, 2007 by trucha

[trucha]

Here is one of my favorite examples of terminal weirdness - a 'blind' peyote pup.

It will be interesting to see how it grows.

[Ace]

a 'blind' peyote pup.

Damn, that is weird!! Where is the apical meristem? It would be good to see that one grafted to speed her up and possibly pup out more 'blind' pups, provided it has some areoles and a meristem!

[strangebrew]

As far as the macrogonus goes I'm tempted to go with it being an inbuilt trait. Most of the time the jointing seems to occur for no apparent reason at all as an unseparated areole isn't even visible (unless of course it's occurring just inside the tip out of view but is this even physically possible?). If the HBG macrogonus is the same as the local plant there is also a slight monstrose tendency about it, a bit like some bridgesii, with indecisive rib changing sometimes leading to monstrose looking formations.

Age may also be a factor, with jointing often occuring more frequently as a branch grows, this has been especially noticable on old prostrate arms once they in turn start branching.

but SEEMS to shows up when planted in the ground more than in container grown collections.

I haven't found that to be the case. You can rely on an old tip cutting to end up doing this in a pot just as much as in the ground.

Edited August 22, 2007 by strangebrew

[strangebrew]

This is pretty cool, it's the opposite sides of the same plant. 2 joined areoles grew at exactly the same time and are directly opposite each other. (the brown areoles are the shaded side)

The first photo grew into the second & in the process one of the pups decided to fade away.

Edited August 24, 2007 by strangebrew

[ferret]

theres a similar looking thing to that Huntingtons macro and strangebrews SA one at Fields, ..

not sure if this is the same plant, same garden i think but looks to have a more upright habit

[trucha]

It could be a minor sort of monstrose expression.

Its worth also considering some viruses insert in the genome and can not just cause alterations in genetic expression but can be passed on to progeny.

I'm not at all clear just what I am looking it.

Its really common in most macrogonus specimens I've seen, not just here but in Oz. Perhaps all but I have not been able to watch all of them get larger.

Its interesting it impacts a number of closely related trichs at the Huntington.

They have really bad nematodes which affects the appearance of some of their plants according to Gary Lyons.

When areole fuses this seems to start before they become visible through the felt or even before they appear when felt is not visible right at the apical meristem suggesting it starts that way.

In some cases the apical meristem almost looks like a bar not a spot but forms an invagination not a crest. (See the upper right HBG peruvianus for a nice example)

[ferret]

heres a weird thing thats started to form on one of my bridgesioids

hope it keeps on developing..

[devance]

I can't get the link but said but instead of cactuses getting a tumor from sunlight its from was a infectious intracellular mycoplasm.

best I can get.

http://www.rain-tree.com/mycoresearch.htm

'Unlike viruses and bacteria, mycoplasmas are the smallest free-living and self-duplicating microorganisms, as they don't require living cells to replicate their DNA and growth. More complex than viruses, mycoplasmas utilize RNA for replication, which in turn makes them susceptible only to the nucelophylic growth and/or protein synthesis inhibiting antibiotics. This antibiotic sensitivity was a clue used in the identification of the filtrable viral-like "Eaton Agent" as Mycoplasma pneumoniae, the cause of atypical pneumonia. This respiratory strain is now also suspected as a cause of arthritis, neurological and other localized disorders.'

[ferret]

the funny thing is, for some reason i have had a tourmalated quartz obelisk sitting on top of the cutting those two weird pups came out from.. im gunna move it to a different clone and see what happens..

crystal energy maaaan

[strangebrew]

Weird timing ferret, some of my bridgesii is doing the same thing ATM.

Just changing ribs I expect at the start of the growing season.

[spunwhirllin]

I received this as a macrogonus,it was kinda tore up when I got it.

As new growth presented itself it seemed as if it was going monstrose,then it partially variegated.

It grown quite a bit since the photo was taken,and it continues to exhibit the same oddball features.

Oddly enough two basal pups grew out normally until they reached 2 ''or so,then they also went variegated monstrose.

[apothecary]

What a fun thread!

I have some piccies I will add next time I visit the parents (where my cacti reside).

a 'blind' peyote pup.

Damn, that is weird!! Where is the apical meristem? It would be good to see that one grafted to speed her up and possibly pup out more 'blind' pups, provided it has some areoles and a meristem!

I doubt the plant will ever pup as it appears to be fully blind, although some 'underground areoles' do seem to occur sometimes.

Grafting would probably be a mistake. The blindness is most likely the effect of some genetic hormone deficiency, and grafting it will almost certainly reintroduce those hormones into the plant from the rootstock.

[teonanacatl]

IVe seen lophs throw blind pups, though most have an areole or two, basically the whole pup doesnt make it out. This gives the mutant looking stumps.

[Conan Troutman]

nooooice

This cut is originally from MBN circa 95, strong monstrous characteristic which seem to come and go

[trucha]

As infectious agents capable of causing such things mycoplasmas are certainly good candidates. They could easily be passed along in cuttings and could go dormant or express themselves in cycles or stay in one state all of the time.

If you find that reference please post it.

That blind peyote pup is in fact going to get grafted if it is not already. Next time I am in S Cal I will check on how it is growing.

Here is another one of a huanucoensis where the lack of apical separation was outgrown and formed a strap. The tip above the strap is around half a year of growth.

Edited January 11, 2008 by trucha

[trucha]

A fascinating thing happend to a friend this year.

He's growing lots of monstrose pachanois.

The majority of them stopped completely expressing monstrose growth last year and one decided to flower for the first time he ever witnessed. Sadly I only got to see the flower bud and the flower remnants as it stayed preopening for a surprising number of days which did not line up with the times I could take off from work to take cactus photos. The flowering one also put out lots of long spines around the flowering site.

[kadakuda]

interesting stuff. i have a "pachanoi" that is growing much like some of the above strange ones. i will take a pic later, for now here is one of my friends cactus. pretty neat looking. this one is about 1.5 meters tall give or take.

[trucha]

That seems more likely a nonpachanoi monstrose due to the lack of broadly rounded ribbing. Its not a trich.

It resembles Neobuxbaumia euphorbioides but I have only seen a few in my life so could be wrong.

Beautiful plant!

Edited January 28, 2008 by trucha

[incognito]

Pachycereus sp?

[AndyAmine.]

I just looked this morning and I seem to have a gratfed lopho pupping from its merristem?

I think I have seen it on this forum before but maybe Im just having dejavu, looks very cool, Ill grab a photo later on.

[AndyAmine.]

here is the pic

[kadakuda]

no its certainly not a trich! i only know the mandarin name, i will get my wife to help me find the latin name when she gets back

[kadakuda]

here is a t. pachanoi that is growing funky... this is suppose to be a ss02, but i really cant say. i got it as a rooted cutting.

this is it rooting and starting to grow.

here is the stump it can from.

[ramon]

Here is one of my favorite examples of terminal weirdness - a 'blind' peyote pup.

It will be interesting to see how it grows.

I had a similar thing happen to one of my plants.

I think I posted a picture of it in a thread discussing how long it takes for fruit to develop after flowers.

it continued to grow at a normal rate until it was ready to flower. It then split down the middle and grew out from there and these days it is hard to tell there was anything unusual about it becasue of the way it sits on the mother plant

couldn't get a link to the picture to work but the thread was

small loph flowering out of outter aeriols not centre, anyone seen this before?

Edited February 14, 2008 by ramon