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fraser miller

apes evolved into humans by taking magic mushrooms book

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Hey Everybody

I'm writing what is essentially a sequel to Food of the Gods: The Search for the Original Tree of Knowledge a Radical History of Plants, Drugs, and Human Evolution by Terrence Mckenna.

My book is a book dedicated to evidence that supports Terrence's "The "Stoned Ape" hypothesis of human evolution which in my believe is the missing link in human evolution and the triangulate answer between religion and sciences ongoing debate about how we came to be. I've been researching on the internet for the last year, and have found a heap of evidence from different many different sources such as authors, cultures, shamans, secret societies, religions and times all over the world that adds allot more convincing evidence to his theory, from all that i've gathered i'm Totally convinced and I think that any extreme sceptic with a rational, logistic sceintific mind will find this evidence hard to dissmiss. which I believe didn't get anywhere near enough attention as you find with allot of psychedelic related stuff, this one is a very central topic and I find it surprising and somewhat typical that there hasn't been follow-ups to this book as far as I’m aware, especially since it was released way back on Jan 1 1993. The information in this book is in relation to possibly lines what I believe to be the most threatened information in human so I want to push to get it out there to the psychedelic community and the world asap.

I want to give this book as much evidence as possible so it gives the scientific community a real hard knock they'll find hard to ignore so if anyone wants to help out by contributing any evidence to add to the long list, that woudl be amazing and i'll let you know if i'm aware of it.

The areas which I'm a bit dry on quanitity of evidence are studies on the human brain, only really because its not my area of professio. Allthough very simular there is a big differnce between the human and ape mind when examined closly, I need a bunch of information on how alien the human mind is as a result of pyschedelics such as differnt areas and process's of the brain that could not have been locked without them or anything to do with mysteries of the human mind. If any one knows any good books, links, thinkers or have personal knowledge on this area of topic it woudl be great to receive help.

I want to drum up as much support as I canso the book can reach its full potential.

Since this is australian site heres a glimpse of some evidence, this might put a smile on your face.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ufoart/esp_ovnis_arte_6b.htm

The picture shows lightening brothers from the aboriginal story of creation with what apear to be magic mushrooms in their hands.

With this next link scroll down to page 60 and you will see magic mushrooms next growing underneath a shaman.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=dln-k5uK-OwC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=buwarraja&source=bl&ots=U6N4M3OqzZ&sig=44XpM10zNJvRHeWoJyuNCr2xRjc&hl=en&ei=-Gn_TL_DNIXEvQObhb3HBw&sa=X&oi=b...ook_result&c...t=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=buwarraja&f=true

These paintings are by the ancestor spirits who came overseas to australia and are the oldest evidence of mushroom very simular as the mushroom cult Tassili n'Ajjer in algeria, africa near where human life orignated.

Hope you can help :D

I'm very exicited about this project.

post-8249-0-61445000-1293685385_thumb.jp

post-8249-0-72348500-1293685489_thumb.jp

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Research the pineal gland

Cool pictures, I really like the Australian mushroom pictures

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A nice idea but I thought the original by Terence was a pretty ordinary read to be honest. Archaic Revival had much more going for it.

The argument itself seems kind of insulting to homo sapien sapien creativity. I think the contention was that homo erectus or thereabouts developed into Cromagnon man and began creating art because of the influence of Psilocybes on the brain; that they some how instigated development of homo sapien sapien abstract thinking and artistic creativity and spiritualism.

Abstract thinking, imagination and creativity are more likely evolutionary characteristics that developed to benefit human hunting for survival; infact most evolutionary changes in all animals and plants relates to achieving the most successful phenotype in the face of environmental stimuli for survival purposes. If we look at the specification of Psilocybes themselves we can see that certain characteristics over time that have appeared to exploit particular environments or substrates have taken.

The apparent ignorance of indigenous Australians to Psilocybes also seems pretty compelling. Similarly there is little if any evidence that the Maori exploited the many species of Psilocybes apparent in NZ.

As for the pineal gland, it produces melatonin.

Edited by Zen Peddler BlueGreenie

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G'day fraser miller. Welcome and good luck with your project.

As for the pineal gland, it produces melatonin.

Doesn't Rick Strassman say the pineal gland also releases DMT ?

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G'day fraser miller. Welcome and good luck with your project.

Doesn't Rick Strassman say the pineal gland also releases DMT ?

From my understanding, Rick Strassman stated that there is a possibility that DMT is released from the pineal gland in humans and that idea has been run with and Chinese whispered around so much that a lot of people take it as absolute fact that DMT exists naturally in the human body. I personally haven't seen any scientific evidence for it, but it could be out there... if anyone can point in the direction of proof that DMT is produced in the human body, please link here.. I'd be keen to see.

As for your book, Fraser... Best of luck. Terrence McKenna worked hard for many years to be taken seriously. I don't know your background, but it could be a difficult subject to write a book about and convince the scientific community if you don't have anything (prior articles, academic involvement, scientific or historic accomplishments etc...) backing your name up.

One more thing... and I don't like to be negative, but it has to be said. I hope your book gets a thorough proof reading. Your post didn't read very well and some of your terms seemed mixed up, ie: logistical in place of logical.

Can you tell us a bit more about yourself? What inspired you to start this project? Have you done any research outside of the internet? I personally think the stoned ape theory is feasible, although in a lot of respects, proving it would be about as difficult as proving whether Jesus actually existed. Actually, far more difficult than that - Jesus is within our recorded history whereas the origin of human life is... well nobody really knows, do they?

Anyway, welcome to the forums. Hope you can gather some useful information here.

Edited by Rabaelthazar
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What I took from Rick Strassman's DMT: The Spirit Molecule was that DMT is indeed present within the human body but it wasn't known exactly where it was created and was 'thought' to be the pineal gland. It has been found all throughout the human body blood and urine, liver, in spinal fluid, etc

DMT has apparently been identified as a sigma-1 receptor regulator.

[DMT is a sigma1 receptor Regulator.pdf]

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83155

DMT: A new role as a sensory neurotransmitter?

[Endogenous hallucinogens as ligands of the trace amine receptors-A possible role in sensory perc.pdf ]

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83199

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What I took from Rick Strassman's DMT: The Spirit Molecule was that DMT is indeed present within the human body but it wasn't known exactly where it was created and was 'thought' to be the pineal gland. It has been found all throughout the human body blood and urine, liver, in spinal fluid, etc

DMT has apparently been identified as a sigma-1 receptor regulator.

[DMT is a sigma1 receptor Regulator.pdf]

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83155

DMT: A new role as a sensory neurotransmitter?

[Endogenous hallucinogens as ligands of the trace amine receptors-A possible role in sensory perc.pdf ]

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83199

Any chance of a link to the actual articles rather than a reference on another forum? I can see the pdfs are there... I don't particularly want to sign up to that forum, but I will if there's not another link.

From what I've seen and read of Stassman's work, there was never any concrete statement that DMT existed in the human body, only that it was possible, indeed likely. Keen to see what those articles have to say.

Thanks Herbal_Hindsight. Looking forward to reading them.

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HT: From your writings I have gleaned that you subscribe to the notion that psilocybin mushrooms are a species of high intelligence -- that they arrived on this planet as spores that migrated through outer space, and are attempting to establish a symbiotic relationship with human beings. In a more holistic perspective, how do you see this notion fitting into the context of Francis Crick's theory of directed panspermia, the hypothesis that all life on this planet and its directed evolution has been seeded, or perhaps fertilized, by spores designed by a higher intelligence?

TM: As I understand the Crick theory of panspermia, it's a theory of how life spread through the universe. What I was suggesting -- and I don't believe it as strongly as you imply -- is that intelligence, not life, but intelligence may have come here in this spore-bearing life form. This is a more radical version of the panspermia theory of Crick and Ponampurama. In fact I think that theory will probably be vindicated. I think in a hundred years if people do biology they will think it quite silly that people once thought that spores could not be blown from one star system to another by cosmic radiation pressure. As far as the role of the psilocybin mushroom, or its relationship to us and to intelligence, this is something that we need to consider. It really isn't important that I claim that it's an extraterrestrial, what we need is a body of people claiming this, or a body of people denying it, because what we're talking about is the experience of the mushroom. Few people are in a position to judge its extraterrestrial potential, because few people in the orthodox sciences have ever experienced the full spectrum of psychedelic effects that are unleashed. One cannot find out whether or not there's an extraterrestrial intelligence inside the mushroom unless one is willing to take the mushroom.

HT: You have a unique theory about the role that psilocybin mushrooms play in the process of human evolution. Can you tell us about this?

TM: Whether the mushrooms came from outer space or not, the presence of psychedelic substances in the diet of early human beings created a number of changes in our evolutionary situation. When a person takes small amounts of psilocybin visual acuity improves. They can actually see slightly better, and this means that animals allowing psilocybin into their food chain would have increased hunting success, which means increased food supply, which means increased reproductive success, which is the name of the game in evolution. It is the organism that manages to propagate itself numerically that is successful. The presence of psilocybin in the diet of early pack-hunting primates caused the individuals that were ingesting the psilocybin to have increased visual acuity. At slightly higher doses of psilocybin there is sexual arousal, erection, and everything that goes under the term arousal of the central nervous system. Again, a factor which would increase reproductive success is reinforced.

http://www.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/McKenna/Evolution/theory.html

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there is a big differnce between the human and ape mind

maybe "brain" would be a better word than "mind".

good luck w/your book.

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Rick Strassman's DMT: The Spirit Molecule

Man this was a terrible book. No where within it was there any valid scientific study or measurements that demonstrate that DMT does occur naturally in the body and the assumption that the pineal gland is involved in DMT production was based more on chakras than on any valid medical examination of the gland or through evidence that DMT was found within the gland.

The book then became a 300-page trip report on what happened to people when they were tripping balls on DMT he managed to procure from a university until his cleaner told him that he was dealing with evil spirits and he dropped further study.

How this guy got an advance to write this drivel is beyond me and the evidence, the argument and the conclusions are so far from scientific that it may as well be sci fi.

Still people routinely quote Rick's speculation as fact.

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I guess my angle is that I doubt that psychedelics or mushrooms in particular had any major impact on human biological or cerebral evolution. They would almost certainly however have had a strong influence in certain cultures on spiritual and religious thought and perhaps architecture (Palenque in particular).

Personally I also accept that these mushrooms may facilitate a closer connection or resonance with the natural enviroment or nature in general.

But Im confused how mushrooms that contain indoles that work on specific serotonin-related receptors in the brain have some how catalysed cerebral development and evolution when there are already established and accepted reasons for this evolutionary process.

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The argument itself seems kind of insulting to homo sapien sapien creativity.

2 drunk to comment

hadn't thought about this like this

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lightning brothers is interesting, with the obvious correlation between lightning and mushrooms, but is there any reason to believe the mushrooms in question were magic?

cultural evolution yes, nobody could deny that. language, tools, art, knowledge of the seasons, even right up to the current day many achievements might be the result of altered minds.

as for actual evolution i can only imagine one kind of scenario, which is that certain genetic traits were only successful in conjunction with tripping behaviour, so apes that became more human-like were only competitive with other apes by using trips to boost the usefulness of their increasing creativity or whatever, from 'contemplating pitch changes then getting sucker-punched by a standard ape' to 'figuring out how to communicate to your buddy what the standard apes are up to'. it's kind of like saying humans exist because there were rocks that shattered into sharp peices and branches that made good spears, which enhanced our ability to run down prey from 'haha i caught you' to 'haha i speared you, dinner time'. if true it shouldn't be too surprising to any of us folk but it would surprise many people nonetheless.

pretty sure i'm agreeing with zen peddler.

Edited by ThunderIdeal

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If you're going to claim that hallucinogenic mushrooms forced the development of the human brain, you're going to have to spend quite some considerable time discounting the contributions of fire, of the domestication of dogs, of the use of clothing and tools, of long life-span relative to body size, and of social traits such as group hunting and intergenerational child-rearing.

I think that you'll be pushing it up hill with a little stick. But then, von Danniken made a wad with Chariots of the Gods, so scientific scrutiny is no obstacle to publishing...

:rolleyes:

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You'd be better off devising a new contention rather than just rehashing an old book - and one that I doubt was an international bestseller. Why not lead into the obvious connection between Zeta Reticulans and the seeding of Psilocybe spores in universities around the western world in a bid to instigate vast cultural changes before the arrival of the Orionian Reptilean forces and the formation of crop circles on the Parliament lawn in Canberra (wence semilanceata is rumoured to occasionally sprout from).

As for Chariots of the Gods - the connection was obvious. Advanced architecture = obvious alien contact. Aliens have nothing better to do than assist us to build relatively useless large objects out of stone.

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It has been proven that DMT exists as an endogenous chemical, that's part of the reason Strassman got funding, it's just not in psychoactive amounts most of the time.

The argument goes that at some times the body is capable of producing more than it can process as part of it's daily functioning and people have UFO, religious

experiences etc. as a result. I think the evidence that people were using these plants proves it was part of our evolution, I'm not sure about physiologically but certainly

culturally. DMT and other chemicals can produce visions not unlike the petroglyph's and hyroglyphic's used as a basis for communication by past civilisations.

I too have been looking into this area but just recreationally, there's no book coming, I think people's use of various active plants enabled them to exponentially access

their already capable imagination. Similarly cooked food enabled the brain to become larger, as seen on TV recently, quite a compelling argument.

These plants played a part but were not the sole reason IMO for the subsequent direction of human societal evolution.

©

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TM: I think we should look at the impact of diet and realize that what you eat changes the parameters of the environment that is selecting you. I found no discussion of the impact of diet on human evolution, and yet at the very moment that the great [primate] evolutionary leaps were being made, there was a transformation of the diet towards omnivorousness-meat-eating, predation-away from the fructarian original state.

I'm not saying that civilization fucked up what was otherwise a naturally-occurring politically correct situation. There was a period when, because of the presence of psilocybin in the diet, the natural tendency to male dominance hierarchies was interrupted. It was in that moment that community values, altruism, language, long-term planning, awareness of cause and effect, all the things that distinguish us were established. Then, as the mushroom became less available due to climatological factors, after 15,000 years of this human-mushroom quasi-symbiosis, the old dominance hierarchy hard-wiring re-asserted itself in the ancient Middle East with the invention of agriculture, the need to become sedentary in order to carry out agriculture, the need to defend surplus, the establishment of kingship. These are a re-assertion of an older pattern that had been interrupted by a factor in the diet which basically made people mellow.

M2: Did that interruption occur throughout the entire human genome, or are there areas which would have been outside the mushroom Garden?

TM: People have been migrating out of Africa during each interglacial. I think the mushroom was having an effect in Africa over the last three million years, but what really kicked the process into high gear was that during the last interglacial, true pastoralism evolved. All previous migrations out of Africa were the migrations of hunter/gatherers. The migration that began at the melting of the last glaciation about 18,000 years ago, were the first herders out of Africa. It's the cattle/human/mushroom triad that reinforces the partnership, non-dominant, orgiastic style.

I talk in the book about how apparently at a certain point in the evolution of human cognition, cause removed from effect became something that people noticed. At the very moment that men were realizing that the consequences of sex were children 9 months later, women were realizing that the consequences of tossing trash onto middens was food availability in those very spots 12 months later. This ability to correlate a cause with a delayed effect indicates a certain level of neurological processing that sets the stage for the suppression of orgy. Because the suppression of orgy is linked to a concern for male paternity. Before you know that sex leads to children, all children are the tribe's children. Women know who their children are, but for men, children are group resources. Once you put the male paternity thing together, the notion of ownership soon follows. The idea is that psilocybin is an egolytic compound, that orgies every new and full moon, everybody screwing in a heap, makes it impossible to form these notions of my women, my children, my weapons, my food, and so forth.

M2: What do you mean by the term ego?

TM: I'm assuming a Jungian vocabulary. The ego is not the self. The ego is a nexus of strategies for short-term gain at the expense of group values and even long-term personal gain.

M2: If for the North African herders the primate hierarchical programs were broken down by mushrooms, would it be correct to say that the European Paleolithic hunters on the edge of the ice sheet ~20,000 B.C. would still have the primate hierarchical programs because they had no access to mushrooms?

TM: Right. Basically, this mellowness was an African style, and it could only sustain itself as long as there was a plentiful supply of mushrooms and a religious institution that insisted on it being used.

Here's the scenario: You have this climax Edenic partnership society based on orgies and mushrooms and herding, and the drying continues. The mushroom becomes less plentiful. It becomes localized. It becomes seasonal. The mushroom festivals become further and further apart. Eventually this is recognized; there is an anxiety to preserve the mushroom. The obvious strategy then is to put it into honey. But honey itself has the capacity to turn into a psychoactive substance, mead, a crude alcohol. So what begins as a mushroom cult, through a sincere effort to preserve the mushroom cult, turns into a mead cult a few thousand years later. Because the mushrooms are spread thinner and thinner, and the honey is more and more the focus. But look at the consequences of an alcohol cult. Alcohol lowers sensitivity to social cueing while it increases a false sense of verbal facility. So, it sets the stage for boorish behavior. From that comes the suppression of women as part of this bronze-tipped spear/grain surplus/city-building kingship/standing armies/turf-defending mentality that we find in the so-called proto-civilizations.

http://www.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/McKenna/Evolution/theory.html

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It has been proven that DMT exists as an endogenous chemical, that's part of the reason Strassman got funding, it's just not in psychoactive amounts most of the time.

The argument goes that at some times the body is capable of producing more than it can process as part of it's daily functioning and people have UFO, religious

experiences etc. as a result. I think the evidence that people were using these plants proves it was part of our evolution, I'm not sure about physiologically but certainly

culturally. DMT and other chemicals can produce visions not unlike the petroglyph's and hyroglyphic's used as a basis for communication by past civilisations.

I too have been looking into this area but just recreationally, there's no book coming, I think people's use of various active plants enabled them to exponentially access

their already capable imagination. Similarly cooked food enabled the brain to become larger, as seen on TV recently, quite a compelling argument.

These plants played a part but were not the sole reason IMO for the subsequent direction of human societal evolution.

©

Looks like we have our selves a penis measuring competition.

1. Finding small amounts of endothelial DMT in a few cadavers doesnt prove squat. It doesnt prove whether it was (most likely) a metabolite of something else and it certainly doesnt prove that it was cerebrally active or that it had any cerebral consequence. You can make that assumption as Rick did, but its based on very little evidence.

2. Rick argued that dreams and near death experiences might be caused by DMT release under these situations to cushion the brain. This was based on the incorrect assumption that dreams, near death experiences, perhaps UFO and ghost experiences share similar characteristics to DMT experiences. This is an argument that any experienced DMT experiencer would laugh at. On the one hand you have experiences that follow logical and linear processes and reality versus experiences that defy reality, time and the logical universe.

3. Nearly all the evidence that 'people' from past cultures used psychedelics is based on modern interpretations of pictograms with assumptions that because they appear to us to depict psychedelic imagery, then that they must actually do that. Its pretty flimsy and not often conclusive my any means, the mexican cultures being an obvious exception.

4. Some mushrooms seem to produce imagery that appears Mayan or mexican in origin. But this is most likely because a person has already seen this imagery.

5. tv is bullshit generally.

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Hey Everybody

I'm writing what is essentially a sequel to Food of the Gods: The Search for the Original Tree of Knowledge a Radical History of Plants, Drugs, and Human Evolution by Terrence Mckenna.

My book is a book dedicated to evidence that supports Terrence's "The "Stoned Ape" hypothesis of human evolution which in my believe is the missing link in human evolution and the triangulate answer between religion and sciences ongoing debate about how we came to be. I've been researching on the internet for the last year, and have found a heap of evidence from different many different sources such as authors, cultures, shamans, secret societies, religions and times all over the world that adds allot more convincing evidence to his theory, from all that i've gathered i'm Totally convinced and I think that any extreme sceptic with a rational, logistic sceintific mind will find this evidence hard to dissmiss. which I believe didn't get anywhere near enough attention as you find with allot of psychedelic related stuff, this one is a very central topic and I find it surprising and somewhat typical that there hasn't been follow-ups to this book as far as I’m aware, especially since it was released way back on Jan 1 1993. The information in this book is in relation to possibly lines what I believe to be the most threatened information in human so I want to push to get it out there to the psychedelic community and the world asap.

I want to give this book as much evidence as possible so it gives the scientific community a real hard knock they'll find hard to ignore so if anyone wants to help out by contributing any evidence to add to the long list, that woudl be amazing and i'll let you know if i'm aware of it.

The areas which I'm a bit dry on quanitity of evidence are studies on the human brain, only really because its not my area of professio. Allthough very simular there is a big differnce between the human and ape mind when examined closly, I need a bunch of information on how alien the human mind is as a result of pyschedelics such as differnt areas and process's of the brain that could not have been locked without them or anything to do with mysteries of the human mind. If any one knows any good books, links, thinkers or have personal knowledge on this area of topic it woudl be great to receive help.

I want to drum up as much support as I canso the book can reach its full potential.

Since this is australian site heres a glimpse of some evidence, this might put a smile on your face.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ufoart/esp_ovnis_arte_6b.htm

The picture shows lightening brothers from the aboriginal story of creation with what apear to be magic mushrooms in their hands.

With this next link scroll down to page 60 and you will see magic mushrooms next growing underneath a shaman.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=dln-k5uK-OwC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=buwarraja&source=bl&ots=U6N4M3OqzZ&sig=44XpM10zNJvRHeWoJyuNCr2xRjc&hl=en&ei=-Gn_TL_DNIXEvQObhb3HBw&sa=X&oi=b...ook_result&c...t=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=buwarraja&f=true

These paintings are by the ancestor spirits who came overseas to australia and are the oldest evidence of mushroom very simular as the mushroom cult Tassili n'Ajjer in algeria, africa near where human life orignated.

Hope you can help :D

I'm very exicited about this project.

Yes religion was based upon the Tree of Knowledge' The Lord of Lords' King of Kings' God of Gods' "Teacher Plants'

NO! Man never evolved from apes here on this planet'

It is written in stone of where man came from'

The good old church no recognises these writings even though they contain the original story of genesis'

As are all of the original stories of which where compiled as the book of Genesis!

Bible says man is 4000 years old'

Cuniform writings say 200,000 years'

South Africa is of where man started'

Blonde hair and blue eyes is traced back to one person in the mediteranian 10,000 years ago' N' where do you think he came from?

The slave pens is where man was bred and of where he comes from'

I would suggest you read all of the cuniform writings'

1.4% of mans DNA is totaly alien to planet earth' his closet match is the orangutang'

If you read that good old book the bible' you shall see that man was bred by a flesh and blood god' of whom breed with our women' the children became men of old' men of renoun' "Meaning" It had happened before' many times'

A great deal of the archeology that is supposed to back up Darwins theory is bunk' in that the skull used have the jawbone of an ape added'

I like your theory' but my belief system tells me different'

Entheogenic plants are the Tree of Knowledge' the exact same one pharoe god forbade of man to partake of the fruits of' Lest he sees as we see' sees as pharoe god sees'

It would appear that man was seeded here some 200,000 years a go' after the waters subsided from the Great Flood' that is if the Cuniform writings are to be believed' and also this is the reason of why he has no clue of where he came from' and loves to embelish stories of a beautiful origin'

Church systematicaly destroyed most of the knowledge' then destroyed the two temples of man with programing'

When you say god' you have to be very careful of that which you are attempting to express'

God of creation' or god that created man?

Because' unless this whole solar system was built by man' and we are welcome to prison colony earth DNA experiment' Earth was created by the universe' and life got here because of a wave form of cosmic energies of which combines atoms to make molecules of which make organisms'

Ice from space crashed into earth as it was cooling and created an atmosphere??? Hence the oceans'

Or DNA was put here by the hand of man'

Time is irrelevant!

:)))

Blessings and Light'

Nobunoni +

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Man this was a terrible book. No where within it was there any valid scientific study or measurements that demonstrate that DMT does occur naturally in the body and the assumption that the pineal gland is involved in DMT production was based more on chakras than on any valid medical examination of the gland or through evidence that DMT was found within the gland.

The book then became a 300-page trip report on what happened to people when they were tripping balls on DMT he managed to procure from a university until his cleaner told him that he was dealing with evil spirits and he dropped further study.

How this guy got an advance to write this drivel is beyond me and the evidence, the argument and the conclusions are so far from scientific that it may as well be sci fi.

Still people routinely quote Rick's speculation as fact.

HaHa!! I could no put it better myself bro! Drivel :)))

Bliss!

Nobunoni +

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Munch on good old manna from heaven N' go forth and multiply' tripping balls :)))

Basse'

Bliss!

Nobunoni +

Edited by Nobun

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Rick argued that dreams and near death experiences might be caused by DMT release under these situations to cushion the brain. This was based on the incorrect assumption that dreams, near death experiences, perhaps UFO and ghost experiences share similar characteristics to DMT experiences. This is an argument that any experienced DMT experiencer would laugh at. On the one hand you have experiences that follow logical and linear processes and reality versus experiences that defy reality, time and the logical universe.

Are you bloody kidding? The dream world isn't bounded by logic at all!

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1. Finding small amounts of endothelial DMT in a few cadavers doesnt prove squat. It doesnt prove whether it was (most likely) a metabolite of something else and it certainly doesnt prove that it was cerebrally active or that it had any cerebral consequence. You can make that assumption as Rick did, but its based on very little evidence.

2. Rick argued that dreams and near death experiences might be caused by DMT release under these situations to cushion the brain. This was based on the incorrect assumption that dreams, near death experiences, perhaps UFO and ghost experiences share similar characteristics to DMT experiences. This is an argument that any experienced DMT experiencer would laugh at. On the one hand you have experiences that follow logical and linear processes and reality versus experiences that defy reality, time and the logical universe.

3. Nearly all the evidence that 'people' from past cultures used psychedelics is based on modern interpretations of pictograms with assumptions that because they appear to us to depict psychedelic imagery, then that they must actually do that. Its pretty flimsy and not often conclusive my any means, the mexican cultures being an obvious exception.

4. Some mushrooms seem to produce imagery that appears Mayan or mexican in origin. But this is most likely because a person has already seen this imagery.

5. tv is bullshit generally.

1. I was under the impression that DMT was found in most mammals not just humans, more testing and corroborating evidence would be good I agree.

2. Rick's interpretation here is his own, I agree with you in this instance, that was one point of a few as I remember where I disagreed with Strassman but it was a while ago since I read it.

The argument goes that at some times the body is capable of producing more than it can process as part of it's daily functioning and people have UFO, religious

experiences etc. as a result.

3. Pictograph's and hyroglyphic's are I agree difficult to interpret as other religious groups have a vested interest in destroying cultural awareness of their meaning. There are other sources of evidence such as plant fossil remains that clearly

show they were in use, just how is a point of contention but as Homo sapiens have not evolved since then it is likely they had an understanding of potential uses.

4. It's not just mushrooms but yes there are many chemicals within many plants capable of inducing such imagery and people do have a habit of projecting past memory in many instances but as we agree it is possible with such substances

I'm not entirely sure it's just memory projection. I know it's only one source but Stanislov Grof claimed that patients in Russia undergoing LSD experimentation drew and spoke of imagery and knowledge that they had no way of knowing

previously, having come from remote villages with little contact with the outside world, no TV etc. but this is by no means conclusive. It just seems like an enormous coincidence, where there is coincidence there is usually a little truth.

5. tv is bullshit generally, but some of the repeatable experiments shown in this particular show had interesting results, i.e. mice were fed the same amount of food both cooked and uncooked; the mice that ate cooked food had more

available calories to burn as energy for example.

And while I would never pertain to knowing I agree with Nobun that the Universe created Earth and everything on it and everything else for that matter, sorry; terrible.

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