17 Year Old Girl Hanged

[chilli]

THis was pretty disturbing to me...

http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/4701/17...eath_By_Hanging

*shiver*

[Gollum]

Thats some pretty f@#ked up shit.

[Dodie]

That is very fucked up, so what are they meant to do in that situation? Let the men rape them and do nothing? WTF was with their so called bf's? They took off and left them there....gutless pricks..

Im glad i live here..

[simon_marklar]

is it normal to want to burst into tears upon reading something like that?

cuz thats what im doing right now.

allah can go fuck himself if this is how his followers act.

[apothecary]

Full disclaimer right now, I'm Iranian.

Have a look around that website. It's a freaking western propaganda website.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, because I read the Amnesty International report on it from January 16.

But you guys are reading the sensationalised, edited up and bullshitted version and eating it up.

[Torsten]

Propaganda or not, these girls are being sentenced to death for defending themselves. Or are you disputing that Apothecary?

Iran's treatment of women makes me nauseous because I cannot get the pictures out of my head from watching a woman getting stoned to death there (after a sham trial) for cheating on her husband. Have you ever watched a video of a human getting stoned to death? You will never forget it!! A society like that obviously has a few hundred years to catch up in terms of human rights, gender equality and ethics.

I am a little concerned about this news story. In google the top 30 hits about this story are ALL anti muslim, fundamentalist christian, or other faith based sites with an axe to grind. It makes me wonder if THIS story is even true. However, even if it isn't there are plenty of other ones that are quite similar and equally disgusting.

[apothecary]

Definitely not disputing it, have been present before the power of the "Islamic Republic" (Bas'ij routinely clear out streets in Tehran where young people gather) myself.

But I bet simon didn't realise that as his tears flowed he was having his buttons pressed as well.

My main problem is with the misinformation, because I know people reading articles like this repeat it to others.

This often can result in some self righteous people (further down the chain of repetitions) who are spreading propaganda unwittingly all over the place.

The story is true Torsten, the other executions it lists are true too. But quotes have been edited and facts have been snipped from that link. Then outrage has been drummed up by right wing internet savvy activists, using resources like shoutwire and del.ici.ous (I'd like to see where the 99 shouts for a site like iranfocus.org came from ).

That's what boils my blood. I would prefer the people here to be outraged over the facts and truth than to see them fed lies and get outraged over that.

[Torsten]

I would prefer the people here to be outraged over the facts and truth than to see them fed lies and get outraged over that.

That's what I thought you meant, but it wasn't immediately clear from your post. Thanks for clarifying.

[Rev]

Guys (and girls)

seriously!

PLEASE do not pay ANY attention to anti-iranian propaganda in the media

There are many untruths and injustices in the world today dont let yourself be sucked in AGAIN

how long has it been since WMD?

c'mon!

its demonisation

a globally orchestrated propaganda puish to desensitise the public to the humanity of Iranian people and the undermine knowledge and belief in their civility

The few people i know whove actually been to Iran paint a picture very different than the one that is being constructed around us. Its a society in internal conflict at the political level but one that is still very much more good than faulty.

every society has its dark underbelly and we all need to change - but this shit engages hate and disgust not solidarity.

many of the same people getting publicly riled up over what 'they' do to their womenfolk are probably secretly downloading hardcore exploitation porn with women supposed to be of the same nationality - some of which has backfired by getting into circulation in the arab world where confusion reigns over its authenticity.

Its so easy to be outraged

but it is not in your interets at all to allow yourself to be

or stand silent about this fraud amongst the baying chorus of others

we are imprisoned in a cage with bars made only of ideas which can only hold us if we believe in them. If we refuse to believe in them the bars are dissolved and we escape.

im just so fed up with their fucking lies.And the lies are so thick that theyve been able to use them as a foundation upon to which to contruct a whole house of lies. The global media circus is TOTALLY incapable of telling an unbiased story.NOTHINg is chance, nothing is true - everything is being manipuated and onstructed to lead us down a predetermined ideological path. Its time to stick your fingers in your ears and just open your eyes.

the world really is mostly full of good people in all cultures

that means when you sanction acts of violence on others you kill and maim mostly people like yourself

Edited February 10, 2006 by Rev

[gomaos]

Well, propaganda or not, if this is true, my opinion is:

politics, shmolitics....

Edited February 22, 2006 by gomaos

[Rev]

And sorry, Apothary and rev, if you support these bastards, I simply cannot understand why.

understandably

because we are not!

its not a matter of 'with us or against us' (Call me old fashioned i know)

i know this thread is about a girl getting hanged but see the bigger picture...Its prepping you to feel the way you do. buttons being pushed as Apothecary said.

You dont have to take my word for it but keep my viewpoint alongside your existing oe and watch over the next year to see if all the pieces come into place. when you see anti iranian stuff ask who is benefitting

what am trying to say is that you must recognise that this is a conflict of power between two ruling classes

Both seek to enslave their subjects in ideological bondage

it so happens that our rulers are attemptig a hostile takeover against their iranian counterparts because they want more resources.

Gom you mention hitler. Hitler was a badass but he might have gotten away with it if he hadnt invaded poland. I doubt there would have been a war if they just did ethnic cleansing

our governmnets dont give a shit bout that stuff, except as excuses to go to war

and this time its not the 'enemy' whos invading - its our side

I am saying dont listen to the rhetoric! dont get involved!

You wont make the situation better by invading Iran, only worse

theyll bomb a well organised and viable country back to ruins maiming thousands and displacing millions

conditions will get worse, more violent and less lawful just like in iraq

and then they will walk away from the duty of rebuilding - again like in Iraq and afghanistan

this will fester more hatred against the people of teh countries involved which will make it harder to travel in safety and increase terrosrist activity globally

all so the US and israel can run roughshod over the regions capitalising on its land, water and oil resources

we might get 20 years of oil from it if were lucky - then we run out anyway and its all for nothing

Reminds me of the US indian wars- all that killing for some land that the settlers walked off 50 years later anyway

Is the death of a few people by injust courts worth that?

couldnt it be better dealt with in a way other than invasion and mass slaughter?

None of people (we or the iranians) will benefit from this fear/hatemongering

The global media is owned by big business that is in bed with politicians

and they all seek to get rich by our fear and by inciting us to violence against the Iranians

If you still dont get what im saying ill use analogy

the Iranian regime is like a zit on your forehead festering away

you have 2 choices

leave it alone mostly, put a bit of anti fester anti inflammatory cream on it and give it time to resolve

or get it there and pop it

and get it all infected worse than before

prob spread the infection around and leave a big scar

whats the better option?

Edited February 11, 2006 by Rev

[gomaos]

bla

Edited February 22, 2006 by gomaos

[Torsten]

i know this thread is about a girl getting hanged but see the bigger picture...Its prepping you to feel the way you do. buttons being pushed as Apothecary said.

You dont have to take my word for it but keep my viewpoint alongside your existing oe and watch over the next year to see if all the pieces come into place. when you see anti iranian stuff ask who is benefitting

I was 11 (you were still in diapers) when khomeini led the revolution in Iran. We had a tenant living in our house who was a german stewardess and her boyfriend was an iranian pilot who had fled to Bahrain to escape persecution for his Bahai faith. I already had a deep interest for politics at that stage, but had never been exposed to international issues much. Much of my understanding of concepts such as human rights, religious intolerance, dictatorship, revolutions, exploitation by leaders (eg the last Shah) and state sanctioned gender inequality developed from the example of what was happening in Iran at the time. I have had a keen interest in the politics of that country ever since. To make accusations that this topic, this thread, or my position on Iran is based on the Iran bashing that is going on in the media is insulting to anyone who knows more than the last 5 years of Iranian history

I am saying dont listen to the rhetoric! dont get involved!

How sickening is that attitude!?!

6 million jews, 750,000 tutsies, and 200,000 Bosnians might disagree with you.

You wont make the situation better by invading Iran, only worse

theyll bomb a well organised and viable country back to ruins maiming thousands and displacing millions

I agree. Iran can only afford to build nuclear facilities because it sells oil to the world - incl the USA & Russia. If countries really wanted to stop the regimes then they could turn the cash flow off. But they won't.

The other complication with Iran is that we must not forget that they had elections. Admittedly the choice of candidates wasn't great, but the people chose the more conservative of the front runners, which is something we must respect if we believe in the principles of democracy. The main opposition figure probably would not be on this confrontational path right now. This establishes two things to keep in mind

1) the iranian people chose this path and hence can be held responsible on an individual level.

2) a very large minority did NOT chose this path and hence would be innocent.

AS we have to state so frequently, Howard does not speak for most of us, so we must be regarded as innocent in terms of consequences he causes for us. But that's not how politics work and is one of the shortfalls of democracy.

Is the death of a few people by injust courts worth that?

You obviously have little understanding of this regime and it's origins. Politics have not evolved much in Iran since the revolution and while the people in the system may be a little more progressive, the system itself is still a dictatorial system not unlike those in the former USSR and china.

the Iranian regime is like a zit on your forehead festering away

you have 2 choices

leave it alone mostly, put a bit of anti fester anti inflammatory cream on it and give it time to resolve

or get it there and pop it

and get it all infected worse than before

You are forgetting that this zit has been festering for 27 years. That this regime brainwashed and oppressed a whole generation. That women are second class citizens who suffer greatly under the regime. And that the rise of fundamentalism and extremism will probably keep it in place for another 15 or more years. Iraq in comparison was MUCH closer to actually sorting itself out before it got obliterated.

No, I don't think invading Iran is the answer, but most of the real solutions would require all countries in the world to suddenly develop ethics about who they trade with.

[Rev]

To make accusations that this topic, this thread, or my position on Iran is based on the Iran bashing that is going on in the media is insulting to anyone who knows more than the last 5 years of Iranian history mad.gif mad.gif

You are not the only one with a long term interest in Iran, or with Persian Bahai friends to get the stories, so its not fair to make that assumption. You are only 9 years older than me and i took an early interest in world affairs past and present so i didnt miss much.

How sickening is that attitude!?!

6 million jews, 750,000 tutsies, and 200,000 Bosnians might disagree with you.

you cant have conversations with dead people and dead people cant retain and work in hope. You can only urge that people take the route that stops more from dying.

The iranian revoloution was caused by Western agression and becomes further inflamed everytime we poke them. During the 90's when theye were off the radar Iran was undergoing some fundamental reforms and things were getting a lot better. None of that is going to happen now as the clerics use the external threat as the excuse to clamp down on reformists again.

the examples you use are of genocide. The only way thats going to happen here if is the US sees fit to use WMD on Iran

Yes the bahai had to leave iran - but theyre a funny bunch anyway who see themselves as internationalists with their capital on Mt carmel in palestine. They are to Islam what mormons are to christianity.

the iranian people chose this path and hence can be held responsible on an individual level.

i dont see your point. Just what have the iranian poeple or indeed the current elected govt done to deserve what?

The separation between church and excutive branch of govt and the church and courts doesnt exist but i wouldnt assume that there is no separation between the exective branch of govt and the courts.

It may be a theocracy but its not disorganised, it still has a political hierarchy.

In australia even those who voted for the libs and nats and thus johnny

dont necessarily suppport him or his actions. They voted because we have to, and for him because there was barely a choice. People vote for their member, the issues or the party and end up with johnny.

The logic you use means we could be held responsible for what he is doing abroad in our name and many australian will reject that

the problem with democracy is that the way its setup is rigged so we get no choice and half the blame.

You obviously have little understanding of this regime and it's origins. Politics have not evolved much in Iran since the revolution and while the people in the system may be a little more progressive, the system itself is still a dictatorial system not unlike those in the former USSR and china.

And now we have brought democracy to the Russian republics or iraq is anything better?

Democratisation is no guarantee of a better life or even a free voice and IMO is too risky a gamble to involve a mass slaughter and permirtting a foreign occupation by a power with a record like the USA.

Better to hold off and do it yourself when you can

I also dont see a problem with Iran getting Nukes in light of pakistan, china, russia and ex republics,india and Israel already having them.

and the persans have been around well long enough as a sovereign culture to claim the right to it

You could argue that not having nukes is the mistake iraq made, the last Arab player to fall

Nth Korea isnt making the mistake either

Against US imperialism the only partial guarantee of sovereignty is nuclear capabilities

no-one invades or bosses about a country with nukes which makes them the perfect defensive weapon

And that the rise of fundamentalism and extremism will probably keep it in place for another 15 or more years.

the we weigh up the 2 scenarios. HM people dead or maimed after 15 more years in the islamic republic, or 15 years after the invasion.

what state will the country be in, what state will the world be in.

I think ist safer to pursue diplomacy and non aggression

- and not meaning sanctions

sanctions are just an underhanded trick to weaken the opponent before the US invades anyway

iraq and soon Cuba

they just breed corruption and kill children without actually doing anything at the top.

anyway my plea was to not get caught up in the rhetoric. Even if you do have grievances against the govt your voice at this point in now is helping your own domestic enemies

and you said to me once T that you hate the concept of 'my enemies enemy is my friend'

I agree.

Edited February 12, 2006 by Rev

[gomaos]

...

Edited March 10, 2006 by gomaos

[Torsten]

Gom, I had to edit your post as it was offensive and intolerant.

I am sure you know my position on religion, so you would know I am not doing this for the sake of promoting religion etc. Your post was simply insulting to people's faith (and hence to those individuals who might be reading it) and isn't that sort of intolerance the core of why you dislike religion yourself?

Let's face it, it's not allah or god who causes these problems, but human's interpretation of them. In fact, if you are an atheist then humans are 100% responsible for the prejudice, intolerance and inequality caused by their religion, ie their imagination.

[Auxin]

Things are so much more civilized when we talk about plants...

Give peas a chance

[Amulte]

I agree with Auxin. Very well said, but i think thats why this is chill space

Now i love to hear EVERYONE's opinion. i myself mostly sit and watch rather than 'Pick-A-Side', as i think this helps me gather an unbiased opinion. but one goal i believe the media trys to obtain is segrigation, and to me it looks like its been achieved here. This whole situation makes me sad, the fact it happened, the treatment of the girls, they way some said this and some said that which in turn appears to have upset some nice people. i know you all love a good discussion, but this is one that will never end untill everyone gives up.

i feel its just getting nasty now, and with these things in mind, should we not simply walk away from this?

[gomaos]

...

Edited March 10, 2006 by gomaos

[Rev]

One question, Rev:

What do your holy holy Bahai friends do when they see atrocities like that?

i think u r misquoting me gom.

I do have bahia friends and as people i like them- but i think they are SERIOUSLY deluded in ther choice of religion. so no point asking me any such question.

hate to use the analogy gom but u remember starwars yeah?

well like the apprentice jedi you let anger cloud your senses

the enemy uses your reactiveness to manipulate you

they want you to be angry so they make sure you see or hear things they know will make you blind

these things always happen, have alway heppenned, will still happen after invasion. The question is why are they showing this to you NOW

why not invade Sudan?

why not guantanamo bay?

why not Burma?

all places are far worse than Iran

[The Dude]

Ah what a lively discussion.

On the point of deserving death. No living thing really deserves death, a life sentence as eternal punishment would do the trick. and none of this 'goodfellas' living in paradise crap.

By killing someone you are a hypocrite if you disagree with their killing. It only lowers you. And we are better than that yes? We dont need blood on our hands.

Also... while we're sentencing saddam, i believe rumsfield and bush snr, his accomplices to the use of chemical agents against his own people should be on trial there with him. Hehe um lets not forget that recent AWB bribe scandal, yep saddam had lots of buddies, all our governments are hypocrites and deserve the worst punishment together with saddam.

Anyhow, I believe change starts at a local level, we need to organise the fuck up as a country and get it sorted... haha, um should be piece of piss yeah. I don't really agree with any of this fucking up of the shit of other countries by means of war and that (disguised as bringing democracy whilst reaping all the benefits... aint war fantastic!)

War and any thing perceived as righteous killing (ie: capital punishment) sickens me. So anyone on an ideological mission quoting a holy book or science fiction novel (some hollywood cult ;) ) as justifications for their righteous murder... Won't have any of that!

At the same time I respect peoples' religious beliefs obviously but don't give me no shit about how you have the right to kill, your own god would think less of you, fucktard.

...I guess this ends my rant. And we are left nowhere.

I don't believe in leaving issues unfinished. Amulte. should settle it.

I don't believe any one here has any mal-intent or wishes to offend anyone. We all have a common enemy here. Dictatorial governments of the entire globe including our own leaders. The only question is how to rid ourselves of these parasites leaching off our energy. By believing the bullshit of one pack of liars and killing innocents in another country that we don't really know/care about - well us aussies dont anyway.

In comes the media pushing this hate-mongering and things dont get pretty. I don't believe in the acts of the Iranian govt. But I hate this bullshit farce our govt. does, turning a blind eye to every atrocity all over the world until it suits them economically/politically to invade a certain country. It's state terrorism, no question about it.

Ah how depressing...

[gomaos]

("Not my fight")

want nothing to do with it

Edited March 10, 2006 by gomaos

[Auxin]

Cute puppies !!!

Awwwwwww

Cute :D

[gomaos]

...

Edited March 10, 2006 by gomaos

[SaBReT00tH]

Full disclaimer right now, I'm Iranian.

Have a look around that website. It's a freaking western propaganda website.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, because I read the Amnesty International report on it from January 16.

But you guys are reading the sensationalised, edited up and bullshitted version and eating it up.

yeah, how did the girl know the men were going to rape her and her niece? Maybe the men were just going to rob them.