Unpleasant Dmt

[Salviador]

My friend has come to me quite worried telling me that when he smokes pure dmt, he gets a strange pain in his throat. He reckons it feels like an adrenalin rush in the throat followed by a less intense full body adrenalin rush. Any ideas?

Also a separate friend had a very large dose of pure dmt in the range of 100+mg and his friends reported that his heart was beating at a worryingly high pace. Is there a risk of heart issues in generally healthy participants after large doses?

I have heard other friends report the first effect, and wonder if anyone else experienced this / knows anything about it.

[folias]

Salviador,

Haven't heard much about the first effect...

Is there a risk of heart issues in generally healthy participants after large doses?

I have never heard of any heart issues with smoked DMT... it is possible one could get into trouble if one had a weak heart... the experience could put into a state of high psycho-physiological activity...and this should raise one's heart rate... but it shouldn't be a problem for healthy people in my opinion!

I remember going to a little circle of people talking about "all this" and two of them said that they considered that people who wanted to smoke DMT should prepare by absailing, parachuting or any hard core outdoor action sport so as to prepare and learn to deal with the pressures and extremeties of the state...

I don't know about that... but I think, it can be pretty full on... and I'm not really sure there is anything we can to prepare ourselves.... what is more intense?...a full dose of DMT or bungee jumping... hehe, I remember one guy who did a perfect swan dive down a 200 metre canyon said, "I am NEVER doing that again"...similar reaction!

And I'd definately say that DMT is physically safer than bungee jumping...

Julian.

[gomaos]

yeah I'd probably go with d-smoking rather than the bungee-jumping...

what if the rope breaks... you're dead...

about the side effects of smoking d...

a foaf also reported "accelerated heart rate' or similar immediately after smoking...

this was the so-called "d-smoking-mix"

however, sometime later, when FOAF, almost "by chance" smoked some "pure" acacia-d,

none of this was experienced...

FOAF who had expected differently was overwhelmed by the most beautiful "visuals" he had ever seen;

colourful lines, moving and changing electrically...

patterns more beautiful than any screensaver would ever be...

of course this had to be the "most beautiful" for this particular person since his own brain was generating it...

however, a few minutes into it, doubts and some fear came up;

how was something so beautiful even possible, how could it be created by simply smoking a cone and keeping it in for 20 seconds....

when he blew out the smoke it already formed the most interesting patterns, an immediate reaction...

the fear and the doubt were the only negative thing about the whole thing...

no sweating or heart palpitations were experienced...

just the fear originating from little ego and big subconcious...

however the fear stills lasts and he is still scared of having another smoke...

even at the prospect of "afterglow" which is very desirable...

much better than any "antidepressant" on the market...

FOAF has read that for example many people in South America Take Ayuhuasca mainly for the "afterglow"...

the visions and hallucinations at the beginning are regarded as somewhat "unwanted" side effects...

if you want to feel great from afterglow you have to suffer the visions....

umhhh....

btw Salviador is it possible that your friends material contained 5-meo-dmt, or bufotenin or something like that (substances that easily make your heart pound and race and produce soaking sweat...?

[wandjina]

twice now, I have read stories about unpleasant heart palpitations/racing heartrate after smoking dmt. I have read many stories about smoking it, but in only 2 did this happen...whilst the person was coming back into the room.

On the first occassion, a large dose indeed, she was told to listen to her heart, and that there may be something wrong. What this was wasn't specified, and left her guessing/worrying for weeks.

It didn't happen on the next occassion, nor the one following...but it did on the third.

She thinks that out of 3 samples she had, one may be the culprit.

It has been suggested this sample contains something more than dmt, as the others do not cause this disrurbing effect.

Is it possible that said spice contains what is suggested above by Gomaos? How common is this?

[spiders]

I would think that all those kinds of effects would be just from the adrenaline rush associated with the experience. I wouldnt worry.

[wandjina]

I would think that all those kinds of effects would be just from the adrenaline rush associated with the experience. I wouldnt worry.

yeah, ok...but what about when it happens with some spice, and not with others? (re heart alarmingly strong/rapid palpitations)

[Andy the Great Something]

I read somewhere that a good method for smoking DMT is to redesolve it in a solvent and mix it 1 part DMT to 4 parts peppermint leaf, then dehydrate under a fan, mixing on occasion, giving you aprox 50mg DMT per .25 grams of leaf.. Apparently it allows for a more accurately guaged and gradual entrance into the space, that doesn't taste too bad..... that way you also don't have to use some fancy contraption to vaporize it.

But anyrate, as to the topic, I've also heard it said that pure DMT has no smell, if that provides any clue. And that if it has a smell it may not have been been purified/cleaned very exactingly. Leaving things ike plant oils and tannins (if obtained from organic sources) and whatever else was used to extract or synthesize it like solvents, addatives, caustic agent, exc. So, if thats the case, that might have something to do with a persons adverse physical effects. All of those can prolly have adverse side effects to them when introduced to your body. Though I think I might recall also reading a blurb in that book titled "the spirit molecule"........ something about it raising blood pressures and heart rates. But don't quote me on that.

Now 5MEO-DMT, I think definetly has reported to been known to have adverse sympathetic nervous system responses. i.e. racing heart, higher blood pressure, bounding pulses, dialated pupils.

[planthelper]

heart papilations, gee i get them from puffing twice on some lago.

i get papilations from low doses of tabacco, but never had papilations when i used to chainsmoke, haha.

they mean nothing. sometimes the same batch can give you a bodyload whils other times ther is nothing. sometimes one finds the very same batch harsh on the throat othertimes it feels mild.

smoking dmt feels like a rollercoaster ride, it's normal to have increased heart rate...

than later onwards, one learns to relax more and just to submitt to it's force.

don't try to fight it, but i know it's hard....

flaky, dry and whiteish spice does not contain many impureties.

reddish, goo spice seems to contain other dmt like alkaloids aswell (less visuals, more drowsie, longer duration), some people even prefer this material over the white stuff.

[Andy the Great Something]

flaky, dry and whiteish spice does not contain many impureties.

...... I doubt thats a correct statement.

[The Dude]

...... I doubt thats a correct statement.

ditto, It's actually the black goop that is the purest.

[planthelper]

i am eager to learn!

but where would be the impureties?

are'nt clear re crystalized, see thrue x-talls i sign of purety?

even the white/yellow stuff is very, very pure, someone ran once a test and it was 95% or even more pure nn-dmt!!

certainly no waxes, gums or tannins, because if they are present they are coating the x talls.

5% impureties = not many.

[Salviador]

I have a feeling that what Andy or Gomaos said applies in my friends situation, he had a similar experience re throat pain when he tried material that was probably not washed properly.

As for the heart pounding, ill let him know, that should be a relief to him. I reckon he bit off more than he could chew with that dose which might have lead him further out than he had expected.

[teonanacatl]

ive had the throat thing, my throat feels like its a huge lump, this was from recrystalised DMT, infact ive always got it. when trying to vaporise large amounts without a smoking mix foaf says thats where the smoke gathers and chokes him up then he coughs, numbs his tounge to. i think its just the dmt

[_e_]

id have to agree that the xtal formations and 'clear to almost clear/light yellow' is said to be the closest to pure nn- however darker colours can most commonly reflect the alkaloidal nature of the dm.... as for impurities causing uncomfortability/throat complaints id say that ud get that with 100% ure dmt given the method if intake.... try some soft smooth smoking herbs and it shouldnt be AS bad.....but then if u smoke enough of it im sure the same thing will happen...

As for increased heart rate, im sure that this would be a physical response to a psychological phenomena rather then a direct physiological response to the presence of dmt in the blood stream.... i have heard of one individual who throws up without fail when smoking dm, and also of an occurrence where a chronic alcoholic whited out and had to be resucitated after/during a breakthrough dose...

Im sure there is a lot of room for medical research and analysis of material before anyone could have Exact answers as to whether dm can have adverse physiological responses and as to just what/when/how/where impurities arise in the final product....

[Tripitaka]

These days when I partake of such things I feel vast processes working themselves out and is accompanied by coughing/reaching and general flowing from mucous membranes.

What I feel is occuring for me anyway is something akin to the purging experienced on Ayahuasca. During this process the colours change as I purge more of the stale psychic energy/attachments, going from lower spectrum muted tones to full spectral saturated colours.

I have percieved what this looks like on an energetic level as I make way for new information/operating systems. This is by no means unpleasent and afterwards I feel incredibly cleansed by the whole experience which is very much inline with oral tryptamines.

Never any heart palpations though, but maybe this is where those that experience such phenomena need clearing/activating.

Would personally prefer yellow/orange dmt over more purified product, is certainly more alive in its visual content and seems to have e greater bandwidth of information. More of the whole plant experience!

[Andy the Great Something]

but where would be the impureties?

are'nt clear re crystalized, see thrue x-talls i sign of purety?

even the white/yellow stuff is very, very pure,

Well, for one thing, when doing an a/b style extraction of organic materials, the base typically used to turn the d into a salt form soluable in a solvent in most getto chemistry extraction teks is usually something like lye (i.e. drain cleaner.) Lye is a white crystaline type material that could easily get into the final product......... I'm pretty sure it'd be very caustic when smoked (caustic enough to irritate mucous membranes or even make one hurl.) So in theory, you could have a very white crystaline final product with significant amounts of lye in it..... and other things. Alot of commonly used industrial solvents have addatives or impurities in them that dry into a whitish/oily/waxy sludge. And waxes are white.

As to the yellowish DMT, I don't think that has too much to say about purity as I think DMT prolly oxidizes to a yellowish color in the long run, unless stored in an airtight container........... at least thats my guess.

But to some extent 'clear' crystals could be indicative of purer DMT, I guess. If one were to say, slow dry a solvent/dmt mix, perhaps with a seeding crystal in the bottom of a pitri dish in a cabinet over however long that takes, i've seen that pic on erowid of a big pure DMT crystal and it wasn't white, it was see through.

[_e_]

i dont know much about this sort of thing, but i didnt know that the caustic from the basification was readily absorbed into the solvent, i thought it would take an actual impurity during seperation to find its way in....

if the caustic was readily absorbed into the solvents then wouldnt all dmt made by homebake contain caustic??? And bessides most people wash their solvent with h2o or even epsom salts in h2o....could the epsom salts find their way in their too?? i didnt think they could??

i would have thoght that if there were to be any impurities they would be minute and from the solvent???

And smoking any amount of caustic be it minute or not would most likely result in alot more then a sore throat or a spew... that shit is fukn nasty if u inhale it, and surely smoking it would be bloody toxic

but like i said im not to worded up on this area of expertise..

[indigo264nm]

....Now 5MEO-DMT, I think definetly has reported to been known to have adverse sympathetic nervous system responses. i.e. racing heart, higher blood pressure, bounding pulses, dialated pupils.

Is there 5-MeO in A. obtusifolia???

ive had the throat thing, my throat feels like its a huge lump, this was from recrystalised DMT, infact ive always got it. when trying to vaporise large amounts without a smoking mix foaf says thats where the smoke gathers and chokes him up then he coughs, numbs his tounge to. i think its just the dmt

It's understandable... through a glass pipe I start coughing and wheezing straight away - feel like I can't even go for a second toke, yet when I do I spend the next 5 minutes coughing and wheezing. No matter how many seperate occaisions I've tried it this way I just can't get anything out of it due to the pain.

I don't think it's a matter of purity.

[AndyAmine.]

A friend of a friend has also had painful smoking experiances from goopy DMT, although it was more prevelant a few years ago and he hasent experinaced it in a while. (but he rarely smokes straight Xtal anymore which could be a factor)

Anyway, with this stuff if one was to use to much heat or was to heat it for too long or too many times then a very painful buring sensation would effect anywhere the smoke touched.

The most memorable time was when this person tried to smoke a hit of DMT from some foil similar to "chasing the dragon" and after 2 or 3 tokes the smoke chnaged and became very caustic and burned his lips and tounge to the point of it feeling like it was going to bleed.

On another occasion this person saw some DMT Xtal that had large, long crystals in it, almost 1cm or more long and about 0.3cm's thick, they looked very similar to NaOH crystals or Epsom-salt crystals and the gear smelled of Toluene heavily.

about 20 mins after smoking some of this stuff he started to get really shaky, his jaw started to clench and a general feeling of poisoning was felt very similar to dirty "speed".

These crystalls looked almost identical to those he's seen form in emultion layers, so he's thinking its from excess Lye during titration or from epsom salts being leeched out during final washes.

this would explain the buring sensation?

[Andy the Great Something]

..... but i didnt know that the caustic from the basification was readily absorbed into the solvent, i thought it would take an actual impurity during seperation to find its way in....

if the caustic was readily absorbed into the solvents then wouldnt all dmt made by homebake contain caustic???

Not neccisarily. I think ph and heat play a big role in the a/b style extraction. Peoples methods vary, so different levels and types of impurities would result. Final cleaning process's vary too I'd imagine. I bet some people don't even think to do a final cleaning if they get white crystals from the start. But then again, I don't know anything from direct experience either, I'm just hypothesizing.

As to lye content, I'd say, make a lye and water solution of a ph around 2 or so, shake it around with a solvent for say 10 minutes vigorously, let seperate and then desolve your solvent, I'd be willing to venture you'd find a good portion of lye in the bottom of your dish.

I don't even know anything about cleaning with epson salts. Have only heard of cleaning with tap water and a little amonia....... and something about evaporation surface area playing an important part. Am sure DMT world would have all the good tips if it's still around.

[AndyAmine.]

Epsom salts are used to "dry" solvents to a semi anhydrous state before washes and gassing etc.

If the solvent isnt dry then is will absorbe some of the alkaloid/salt.

[Dirty Old Man]

Well, for one thing, when doing an a/b style extraction of organic materials, the base typically used to turn the d into a salt form soluable in a solvent in most getto chemistry extraction teks is usually something like lye (i.e. drain cleaner.) Lye is a white crystaline type material that could easily get into the final product......... I'm pretty sure it'd be very caustic when smoked (caustic enough to irritate mucous membranes or even make one hurl.) So in theory, you could have a very white crystaline final product with significant amounts of lye in it..... and other things. Alot of commonly used industrial solvents have addatives or impurities in them that dry into a whitish/oily/waxy sludge. And waxes are white.

As to the yellowish DMT, I don't think that has too much to say about purity as I think DMT prolly oxidizes to a yellowish color in the long run, unless stored in an airtight container........... at least thats my guess.

But to some extent 'clear' crystals could be indicative of purer DMT, I guess. If one were to say, slow dry a solvent/dmt mix, perhaps with a seeding crystal in the bottom of a pitri dish in a cabinet over however long that takes, i've seen that pic on erowid of a big pure DMT crystal and it wasn't white, it was see through.

A couple of things:

The addition of a base to an acidified solution precipitates freebase DMT not salt.

If the layers are seperated carefully very little NaOH will make it into the non-polar solvent and into the final product. This can be eliminated entirely with a non polar wash.

The crystals on erowid were probably grown in a lab under vacum.

Clear crystals are a very good indication of purity 95%+. Lye crystals are white. Sometimes very small DMT crystals appear white although they are really clear.

Not neccisarily. I think ph and heat play a big role in the a/b style extraction. Peoples methods vary, so different levels and types of impurities would result. Final cleaning process's vary too I'd imagine. I bet some people don't even think to do a final cleaning if they get white crystals from the start. But then again, I don't know anything from direct experience either, I'm just hypothesizing.

As to lye content, I'd say, make a lye and water solution of a ph around 2 or so, shake it around with a solvent for say 10 minutes vigorously, let seperate and then desolve your solvent, I'd be willing to venture you'd find a good portion of lye in the bottom of your dish.

I don't even know anything about cleaning with epson salts. Have only heard of cleaning with tap water and a little amonia....... and something about evaporation surface area playing an important part. Am sure DMT world would have all the good tips if it's still around.

I think the role of ph and heat (apart from the absolute extremes i.e. simmering for days or acidifying to ph 1) is exaggerated.

A lye water solution is not going to have a ph of anywhere near 2. That would make it an acid. A ph of 12-high 13's is far more likely.

[Andy the Great Something]

Yeah, what he said.

[wandjina]

Now 5MEO-DMT, I think definetly has reported to been known to have adverse sympathetic nervous system responses. i.e. racing heart, higher blood pressure, bounding pulses, dialated pupils.

Is there 5-MeO in A. obtusifolia???

can someone give a definitive answer here?

smoking dmt feels like a rollercoaster ride, it's normal to have increased heart rate...

than later onwards, one learns to relax more and just to submitt to it's force.

don't try to fight it, but i know it's hard....

what if you have a very pleasureable experience, with no fear or resistance, and you only become aware of heart palpitations when you come back...ie, long after 'submitting'?

As for increased heart rate, im sure that this would be a physical response to a psychological phenomena rather then a direct physiological response to the presence of dmt in the blood stream

well, serotonin means 'blood toning' because before its role as a neurotransmitter was established, it was first observed to constrict blood vessels. Are other tryptamines known to have this effect, and if so, could there be a physiological component?

Personally, i dont think that dmt is a direct, physiological, cause of heart palpitations, but I dont know enough about these things to be conclusive.

What about if you have 3 different kinds of dmt, and after smoking one of these you always get heart palpitations regardless of dose.

What is/could be different about this particular batch?

Never any heart palpations though, but maybe this is where those that experience such phenomena need clearing/activating.

Quite possibly, and I cannot discount this.

...but the palpitations are not what you'd expect as a normal response to fear, shock, awe, astonishment.

I have had the shit scared out of me numerous times, I know what it is to have an 'adrenaline beat'...but these palpitations are different.

It's not just about bpm, but the unnatural force of each contraction, like your heart could explode...and these symptoms are divorced from where one 'is at'...It sucks coming out of a really beautiful experience to this unpleasant sensation. I have read of bufotenine/5-meo experiences, and the effects sound the same to me.

But to set the record straight...are these found in garden variety acacia extracts or not?

[Salviador]

Yes.

All acacias i know of have varying levels of various dmt related alkaloids, including 5meo.