Legality of 15 Year olds

[Amulte]

Heard somone talking the other about R Kelly and a 15 year old Afican American kid who got charged as an adult for murder and given a life sentence. R kelly, rap singer, allegedly pissed on a 15 year old and he was found guilty and charged. A 15 year old boy and 2 girls stole a car, ran a road block and hit a cop car, killing a state trooper. the courts said the kid knew what he was doing and gave him life in jail cuz he was driving.

to me thats fucked up! if a 15 year old can be given life in jail, then you can piss on one if they concent. i mean, im not into the ol golden showers, but ive known dudes who were dating a 15 year old for over a year, they broke up, girl got the shits and got him charged.

Just wondering what other think of this and if it could ever happen here like it did in he states.

[Torsten]

I think that mental age needs to be taken into account in all cases - whether victim or perpetrator. If a 15 year old rent boy who's been on the game for a year or so (AND pretends to be over 18) complains about sexual abuse then that is hardly equal to some innocent prep schooler getting raped by his uncle. Similarly, a 15 year old kid that accidentally releases the handbrake of mum's car in their driveway is hardly as culpable as a 15 y.o. who hotwires and steals a car with his mates and goes for a 2 hours joyride ending in a police chase that kills someone.

I cringe to think that someone I love could be hurt or killed by a 15 year old who gets away with it simply on the basis of his age while it is quite obvious that they knew EXACTLY what theyw ere doing and were well aware of the risks.

The other issue with gay sexual relationships is that in many countries the age of consent for male gay sex is well above the age of consent for straight sex or lesbian sex. Even in NSW this was only equalised last year.

So part of the problem with R.Kelly might be that he broke the law not by one year, but rather by 3 years.

Something I always found a bit perplexing was the transition period of underage couples - especially under the old laws that dictated 18 as the age of consent for gays. eg, two 17 y.o. boys are in love and have sex. One of them is 6 months older than the other and hence when he turns 18 he is having sex with a minor below the age of consent until the other boy also turns 18. It's a bit simpler now I think, because with the age of consent being at 16 it means if one turns 16 before the other, he is still not an adult so can't be charged as far as I can see. So the only time this situation becomes a problem is if the age difference is over 2 years.

[Benzito]

R. Kelly was pissing on a girl, not a guy.

He ain't no homosexual! He just likes pissing on people. That's normal.

I agree though Torsten, mental age is what it comes down to, but that is hard to prove in a court of law.

[Evil Genius]

It´s a Problematic topic. I try to say it like this: When i as 15 years old, i knew some 15 yo girls that were some real bitches. And it´s almost impossible to tell their age by the look.

On the other hand i witnessed old ugly men taking advantage of young girls that aren´t old enough to be aware what´s really going on. I have to admit that i feel sorry for R.Kelly. Something like that can happen pretty fast.

[Conan Troutman]

R. Kelly was pissing on a girl, not a guy.

He ain't no homosexual! He just likes pissing on people. That's normal.

4

Yeah, it's the R

Forty ounces of malt liquor makes me wanna tell you something..

pick you up from the club

Take you home to make some love

Got a surprise, close your eyes

I'm gonna cover you with suds

I'ma give you some poo-poo

I'ma give you some pee-pee

I'ma give you some doo-doo

Wash it down with some wee-wee

[Amulte]

learn the words man..lol'

drip drip drip

i wont sing it, hear for yourself

Take me to your special, close your eyes show me your face, im gonna piss on it

EDIT - Youll never feel, no not quite the same, when you get a wiff of THESE hurshey stains lol

[eeroborroc]

.

Edited September 13, 2013 by eeroborroc

[ballzac]

I think that mental age needs to be taken into account in all cases - whether victim or perpetrator. If a 15 year old rent boy who's been on the game for a year or so (AND pretends to be over 18) complains about sexual abuse then that is hardly equal to some innocent prep schooler getting raped by his uncle. Similarly, a 15 year old kid that accidentally releases the handbrake of mum's car in their driveway is hardly as culpable as a 15 y.o. who hotwires and steals a car with his mates and goes for a 2 hours joyride ending in a police chase that kills someone.

I cringe to think that someone I love could be hurt or killed by a 15 year old who gets away with it simply on the basis of his age while it is quite obvious that they knew EXACTLY what theyw ere doing and were well aware of the risks.

The other issue with gay sexual relationships is that in many countries the age of consent for male gay sex is well above the age of consent for straight sex or lesbian sex. Even in NSW this was only equalised last year.

So part of the problem with R.Kelly might be that he broke the law not by one year, but rather by 3 years.

Something I always found a bit perplexing was the transition period of underage couples - especially under the old laws that dictated 18 as the age of consent for gays. eg, two 17 y.o. boys are in love and have sex. One of them is 6 months older than the other and hence when he turns 18 he is having sex with a minor below the age of consent until the other boy also turns 18. It's a bit simpler now I think, because with the age of consent being at 16 it means if one turns 16 before the other, he is still not an adult so can't be charged as far as I can see. So the only time this situation becomes a problem is if the age difference is over 2 years.

I agree with most of what you said in your first paragraph. The thing that trips me out, is when people say, "If a child commits an adult crime, he should do adult time." Does that mean that if an adult commits a childish crime, he should do juvenile time?

I only know the laws in Victoria, but I think it is the same throughout Australia now. These laws have been the same for hetorosexuals for a long time, but only recently have been equalised for homosexuals(including lesbians). The legal age of consent is ten. However, there must be no more than two years age difference until the age of sixteen. That is, it is illegal for nine year olds to have sex with anyone. It is legal for a twelve year old to have sex with a ten year old (assuming consent). A thirteen year old who has sex with a ten year old is breaking the law, as is an eighteen year old with a fifteen year old. A ninety year old can legally have consentual sex with a sixteen year old.

[ballzac]

I think the whole matter regarding 'legal age' is too black and white. I know a few 15yr old who are far more mentally mature then my crazy mates.

When it comes down to incidents such as the ones mentioned above, a guilty verdict should not lie soley on the age of the offender/victim, but rather through psychological evaluations, etc.

True, but it makes it much clearer whether one is breaking the law or not. Much as I believe that there are many fifteen - and maybe even fourteen - year olds who are mature enough to be making their own decisions about sex, I am quite happy with the laws the way they are, because it removes any ambiguities. There is a simple solution: Don't fuck fifteen year olds! That way you won't go to jail. If she's mature enough to have sex, she's mature enough to wait for it. This is one of the rare instances that I believe the laws can govern the ethics (similar to road rules, but unlike drug laws). If the age increased to seventeen as it is in america, I believe it would become unethical (to a degree) to have sex with a sixteen year old, just like it would be unethical to drive on the left hand side of the road if they changed THAT to the American way too.

[Thelema]

in WA,

1) it is statutory rape to penetrate or to cause to penetrate (in any oriface) anyone below the age of 13.

Q: what about if a 12 yo tries to give you a blowjob? If you dont resist is that "causing penetration"?

2) the legal age of consent is 16 heterosexually and 18 for gay men. There is no consent age for lesbians.

3) if you are in a status of gaurdianship over an opposite-sex person, then the consent age is raised to 18.

4) it is a defence to be mistaken about the age of a penetratee, ie. being under the age of consent, so long as they are over the age of 12, and have led you to believe they are of consent age. otherwise see 1) above.

5) a woman cannot be held criminal for raping or intercoursing with a male of any age.

Q: this will probably change as soon as the first male rape case comes to court in WA.

[Legba]

When i was a 15 yr old, i didn't really care about the law. Now that i have a 15 yr old daughter, I AM THE LAW!

:D

[Rev]

5) a woman cannot be held criminal for raping or intercoursing with a male of any age.

so are you telling me that a woman / or women

could hold me down and do nasty things to me ie penetration with objects and or body parts

and it would not be considered a sexual assault?

what would it be called? indecent assault

it certainly is rough that the legal ramifications are different

[ballzac]

It doesn't really make a difference whether it is a crime or not. I think most people find the idea of a MAN being sexually assaulted by a WOMAN funny. Good luck trying to find anyone who takes it seriously if it happens to YOU.

[wandjina]

re women sexually assaulting men...I saw a documentary some years ago, and apparently it is alot more common than thought...thing is, most men are too afraid to report it. Like you said ballzac, who would take it seriously..

On the documetary though, this guy was claiming he'd been not been raped anally, but had been pinned down and ridden into the ground. How is it possible for him to cry rape? Surely if he had an erection he was aroused....or did they spray something on him and take advantage?

Realistically, how would a gang of women rape a man (penetration and other activties excluded).

[Benzito]

Ahhhhh Wandjina, you're gender is showing.

You see, unless you have a wang, you could never quite understand the wang. lol

I think you could probably be brought to arousal, down there, even whilst thoroughly unaroused (up here).

Women have much more power than you give them credit. And men become aroused through a different part of their nervous system to women, so that may also have something to do with it.

Hence, why alot of quadraplegic and paraplegic women can still become sexually aroused and experience orgasm. Whereas, for men, an erection generally becomes impossible after spinal damage.

I just asked Kat, my partner, and she says that women's arousal is controlled by the parasympathetic nervous system. So there you go. Not sure about men's though.

All this said, I've been tied up and 'ridden into the ground' before, but always voluntarily. :D

So, I am only guessing at all this.

If any women out there wish to pin me down and abuse me, please PM me. (all for science, of course)

[Torsten]

wandjina I am shocked!! Physical sexual excitement in response to rape has been accepted as commonplace for over a decade now (even in australia). It was previously a common defence for men who claimed that women had an orgasm or showed other obvious signs of sexual arousal during rape.

Obviously the same goes for men. Also, if you have a gun to your head or knife to your throat you can suddenly do things you never thought were possible.

And then there is the wang thing benzito mentions....

[wandjina]

yeah, i dunno T...unless the victims member was tied off, I can't see how a gang of women would have much to work with after the first few had a go. I have heard of physical sexual excitement in rape, but find it difficult to beleive a woman could climax, has the ring of other things rapists say to justify their actions: 'she asked for it'...'I couldn't stop/help it'...'she was dressed for sex'...etc. I suppose many peple have rape fantasies though dont they?

As Benzito mentioned above, anatomically and neurologically mens and womens sexual function differs..one would think the physical excitemnt issue is more relevant for males. But still...a gang of 8 women? Im suss

Ahhhhh Wandjina, you're gender is showing.

oh shit! *quickly puts her pants back on*

[Darklight]

re women sexually assaulting men...I saw a documentary some years ago, and apparently it is alot more common than thought...thing is, most men are too afraid to report it. Like you said ballzac, who would take it seriously..

The amount of force taken to subdue most men is regarded as being greater than that which would be needed for a man to subdue a woman and this has been one of the main reasons that sexual assault of men by women has not been taken seriously. While such indicators as abuse of power and indirect threat both immediate and future are taken into serious account when assessing the severity of sexual assault cases where women are the victim, this has yet to be the case where the victim is male and the perpetrator female.

Additionally as a man you have to consider your physical response being used against you in a court of law. Most men are conditioned not to hit women, if you're under real threat and smack her one in the mouth it won't be her suiting up as the defendant. " She tried to fuck me and I wasn't interested so I punched her and got out " just isn't believable for most people.

The wider definitions of sexaul assault means that more people have had to evaluate their beliefs. Unfortunately there seems to be a real lag when it comes to recognising the issues face men as well as women. I've know of several cases where sexual assuault or rape has occurred where a woman has been the aggressor, usually physical strength or size are a contributing factor, but there have been cases of pressure and manipulation applied which, were the tables turned, would definitely be classed as date rape.

And unfortunately the same prejudices affect men in the area of domestic violence. Last I knew there was one, you heard it- one- domestic violence shelter for men, in Canberrra, and it was in serious funding trouble. I hope that's changed. I also have heard of and seen first hand cases where women go simply crazy and attack their partners with sheer force where none was required or called for. Again, the bloke may be in a position to effectively retaliate and subdue but even if they want to ( and they mightn't, for many reasons ) its hard to find support or even to be believed by the wider community.

I'm appalled that most heterosexual women aren't aware that these are issues for some men and its still treated as a joke or dismissed. Is it possible that effective dialogue between straight men and straight women isn't ever going to be viable for reasons of poor sexual socialisation and individual self interest on both sides?

On the documetary though, this guy was claiming he'd been not been raped anally, but had been pinned down and ridden into the ground. How is it possible for him to cry rape? Surely if he had an erection he was aroused....or did they spray something on him and take advantage?

The physical manifestations of arousal are capable of operating independently of stimulus or desire, it's a fear thing and web searches should turn up some more data on it.

[ballzac]

It's the same with children being abused. The body and the mind can get confused. It is the person's mind's wishes that need to be respected.

Here is a theoretical situation that might illustrate it better for people who still don't understand. Suppose I work with a girl I find attractive. I might get an erection just from talking to her. If she pulled down my pants and started playing with my cock, there is no way I could AVOID this reaction. I would tell her to stop, because I have a girlfriend and am faithful, yet this girl might be being forceful and I'd struggle to stop her pinning me down. I'd be afraid of hurting her because of what I think she might say I have done to HER, and also because I have been conditioned all my life to believe that it is ALWAYS wrong to hurt a woman. Just like the 'Violence Against Women: Australia Says No' (Violence Against Men: Australia Says Yes?) campaign states: It is NEVER the woman's fault!

Does this make sense? The body can respond to sex even when the brain doesn't want it to.

[Qhorakuna tantani]

A little Viagra and GHB as a date rape drug for women?

Seriously though... how does GHB and other date rape drugs affect the sexual response of a person, particularly males? Becuase if it isn't all that much then what is to stop a woman from drugging a man and taking advantage? GHB is one of the more commonly used date rape drugs isn't it, or am I mistaken?

[ballzac]

I think GHB and Rohypnol are both pretty common date rape drugs.

[mescalito]

I was doped one night at a Queanbeyan pub quite a few years ago and I'm guessing it was maybe Rohypnol and E as I've had 1-4b before and with the beers I would've dropped like a stone but I remained in a semi-conscious state and able to walk normally after the initial intoxication hit me.

I left my beer unattended once only early on and I can only really remember the first 3 beers clearly(though I know there were more as my friend relayed the next day)and then following a girl out into the street and towards the residential area where I partially remember talking to a group of people for a while.I can't remember whether we were inside a house at the time or just in the street or whether these peeps were just ones I met wandering around but I started coming-to walking the highway between QBN and Fyshwick all intact and still had all my belongings including cash/cards and wallet.It was a close call indeedy as I think the predator didn't see me leave the pub.

Anyway after much walking and feeling extremely horny a lovely lady in Fyshwick was happy to put me up for 2 hrs of asian fun so not all was lost.

(except a couple a hundred )

edit:she was definitely older than 15 ;-)

[wandjina]

some valid points...I must admit, having been on the receiving end of 'domestic' violence, I'm seriously biased...it is very hard for me to see a woman as a rapist. It is hard for me to empathise with that...and hard to see a man as the victim of rape (of the vaginal penetration variety).

That said, i should not have made light of the issues, and I apologise if I offended anyone.

The claims made by the man in the aforementioned documentary, however, appeared dubious to me and others who watched it at the time....in my opinion he fabricated/grossly exagerrated the story to make a point.

However, I have seen first-hand women as the perpetrators of physical violence (which is to say nothing of psychological/emotional abuse).

Two women I've known became violent with their partners, and as noted above, both men felt they could not defend themselves...that it was always wrong to hurt a woman, even in self-defence.

I also know of a lesbian relationship that was incredibly violent, 'S' used to bash the shit out of 'F' on a regular basis...I certainly don't believe that physical violence is the sole provence of males.

I was once in a relationship where my boyfriend and I got into a nasty fight...we both ended up with black eyes after i threw a mug at him. Yet mutual friends only reacted to my bruises, and one of my male friends took my boyfriend aside and had a 'word' with him...it seemed unfair to both of us.

I'm sad to hear there isn't more support available to men who are/were in domestic violence situations...that which is available for women is pretty crap as it is IMO, I can only imagine how scant resources are for non-female victims.

[Thelema]

arousal is not and should not be considered a disqualification from rape.

i once saw a 4-corners doco where a 15yo was refused prosecution (DPP) status because evidence showed she had orgasmed whilst raped.

again, many serial child abuse victims by the age of puberty can experience frequent orgasms as a result of being raped.

It's just a plain and deadly serious fallacy that applies to both men and women.(C&C- cock and clitoris)

[wandjina]

arousal is not and should not be considered a disqualification from rape.

It's just a plain and deadly serious fallacy that applies to both men and women.(C&C- cock and clitoris)

you are right, and I stand corrected.