nsw+drug testing

[nabraxas]

The State Government has announced a 12-month trial of road-side testing for ecstasy, speed and cannabis starting next year.

The mobile technology for road-side drug testing has been a long time coming. But now no less than four companies will be competing for the Government contract.

Roads Minister Carl Scully says the trial will target heavy vehicle drivers using uppers and downers.

“Police will conduct on the spot saliva tests with portable drug scanning machines. They’ll be able to tell within minutes if the driver has taken any of the detectable substances,” Mr Scully said.

Police will test for the “active ingredients of substances” taken in the hours leading up the test.

There will be no prescribed concentration of substances measured by the test – such as the .05 alcohol limit – with the Government saying there’ll be “zero tolerance” for drugs.

There will be a price to pay for this new era of road safety and it’ll be paid by law abiding motorists through an annual 50 cent increase in the cost of car registrations.

The $4.6 million dollar initiative will also be funded with money allocated from the Government’s Drug Summit.

When questioned whether the fines issued to offenders should finance the enforcement, the Minister described the levy “as a small price to pay” for safer roads.

Apart from truck drivers using stimulants and depressants to drive and sleep on long journeys, those who like dancing into the wee small hours have been put on notice.

And it also appears dance parties might be over for some – with police announcing their plans to target streets near night clubs and big outdoor concert venues.

“Research has shown that approximately 24 percent of drivers killed on NSW roads were found to have drugs in their system,” Mr Scully said.

The Minister also said he expects the legislation to have the same profound impact as the introduction of random alcohol testing 22-years ago.

© National Nine News 2004

[planthelper]

...and the rich who can afford cocain will get away with it...

[Torsten]

planthelper, the poor who only have mushrooms will get away with it too

In fact, cocaine is easy to test for so I presume it is either in the package already or will be very soon.

I must say I am not entirely against these new tests. They are not very sensitive, which means they only test positive a few hours after consumption, and I don't disagree that people who drive while under the influence of drugs should pay the price.

The problem I have with this is the impications of the law. basically, if you test positive to a drug then the cops have 'probable cause' to search your vehicle. That's where I feel this is going to be abused and which is why I am not wholeheartedly for the test.

But bottom line is that I don't want any out-of-it idiots on the road endangering my life, regardless of whether that is alcohol induced or drug induced. I've lost close friends in the rave scene due to drug-drivers and have always thought it disgusting how drug drivers get away with it. Also, covering something like 50,000 kms on the highway every year (mostly at night) I am sick and tired of wired truck drivers, or even worse those drifting in and out of consciousness. These people are playing with our lives and they don't give a shit.

[planthelper]

sometimes truck drivers overdose and do silly things that's true, things i experienced include: getting taken over by a convoy of 3, empty, speed 125k/h, double rigs 3 a.m. on the highway (and they where playing with me, boxing me in and so on..), or truckies overtaking in blind spots.

the speed makes them take too many risks,

and alternates there bahavior towards a more agressive driving style.

truck drivers better start chewing qat!

[gomaos]

I'd also like to argue that experienced drivers are able to drive NORMALLY on cannabis...

I know this is a very unpopular opinion but to me it is the truth...

while driving under alcohol is very bad...

[Torsten]

gomaos, scientific fully controlled experiments have shown that alcoholics with a steady blood acohol level of 0.08, when tested at 0.08 have the same emergency-breaking reaction time as sober people. Similarly if an alcoholic is used to only 0.03 then he performs at 0.08 the same as a non-alcoholic at 0.05.

These results are unpopular because they undermine the generality of alcohol driving laws. However, in most cases it is not the alcoholic driver that is the problem, but the social drinker. Ditto for stoners. Most stoners are fine MOST of the time. It is the social smokers and stoners who have irregular supply who are the problem. While maybe 10% of drunk drivers are safe cos they are alcoholics, maybe 50% of stoners are 'safe' because they are regular smokers. But given the sheer number of pot smokers, do we really want something ike 5% of the population driving dangerously.

Pot smokers have accounted for a sharp increase in accidents in the last 10 years (ie pot is disproportionately involved in more serious accident than not). I think turning a blind eye to that is foolish. The statistics are quite damning in that respect.

Daniel used to drive stoned when I first met him (well, because he was always stoned ) and he thought he was a great driver. Problem is that he simply wasn't aware of all the signs, intersections, lights, etc he missed. Once I got my license back I refused to let him drive. He did become an excellent driver the day he stopped smoking. Personally I would not have wanted someone like him on the road if it wasn't for the naivety of youth.

On the positive side, he did always say that he drove a lot slower because he was aware of the THC impairment, and that is true. Most of his potential accident woud have been non-fatal. But really, is that enough reason to allow stoner driving?

As for truck drivers, I have the utmost respect for them. I have spent enough time on the highway to understand their way of thinking and their way of driving. It is rarely the ones on my side of the road that I have aproblem with. It is the ones that swerve all over the road coming the other way that really concern me. If a truck is 100% on my side of the road then he has potentially killed me and that is the way I treat them - yes, I do turn around and call the cops. Just because I survived doesn't mean the next car will and I would not be able to forgive myself for that.

[gomaos]

well I just can't shut up about this.

the introduction of drug tests means not only will people be punished for driving on drugs, even people who absolutely safe drivers on cannabis, but they will also face fines and'or jail for possessing cannabis.

That means:

An idiot who drives drunk, just gets a fine and then is let loose on society again.

Somebody who may have smoked a joint but drives absolutely safely doesn't just get a fine, but may go to jail and faces a permanent driving ban, like in germany (my ex-wife for example).

Do you still think that's fair, Torsten?

Or do you only think so because you don't like cannabis and are in no danger?

I think this totally stinks, and that labor-Faschist Blair in England (warmongering bastard)now wants to fine people just for having cannabis in their blood.

I wouldn't be surprised if the alcohol-lobby is behind this!

For sure many people now will HAVE to switch (back?) to alcohol from cannabis.

Which is horrible, alcohol being such a crude and evil drug, and cannabis being the best there is!

[nabraxas]

They are not very sensitive, which means they only test positive a few hours after consumption T--do you have any info on that?

seeing as thc stays in the body for about a month, i am abit concerned as to how sensitive the tests will be.

i also think it's a joke that they wont be testing for Heroin--due to the false positive results for codiene use; sure, the junkie that is just supporting his habit is in the same boat as the regular dope smoker or drinker--ie: you probably couldn't tell they'd just had a fix, bong or shot; BUT the irregular heroin user is a far worse driver than the irregular drinker or doper.

[tomtom]

does anyone know how the test works ? as far as i know for every drug test there is a way of masking it .( not that i condone illegal activities) purely science of course

[Darklight]

I'm more concerned as to things ( not just comestibles ) which could produce false positives.

Once you test positive, the burden of proof could well be on you to show that you *weren't* taking something illegal!

Yes I know this is a trial only, but I don't believe that the length of time allows for a decent scientific study that the spot test checks for those substances specifically and solely.

I definitely don't approve of impaired drivers, I see too many of them on our roads ( and some of them are straight and sober- just consistently incompetent ). But I don't think that justifies a guilty-until-proven-innocent label that is applied via bad science and a gullible public :mad:

[gomaos]

the only people who will really be discriminated against with this new laws will be cannabis-users.

Why? That's why:

You can really smash yourself up with alcohol the night before driving, a bottle of jack daniels is fine...

You can pump yourself full of meth, coke or heroin the night before...

most of those will have left your system after 8 hrs, and in thre case of alcohol, who cares, even if you get caught it's only a fine, not permanent loss of license.

But don;t even smoke a joint of leaf the night before driving, or 2 nights before driving, or even a week before... it will still show in the test!

How do i know that? Not because i have read it but because of experience:

I stayed in germany for a year or so, 6 years ago.

One of my best friends was S., a junkie who is now dead (see "death of a martyr" thread)

He had to have frequent drug tests because he had been in trouble with the law.

Which didn't stop him from consuming coke, (h I don't know if so he didn't tell me), all kinds of tablet crap and whatever else was floating around...

he just didn't have any the day before the test.

The only cannabis we had at the time was some home-grown leaf, of such bad quality that we mainly smoked it for the taste since there were little to no effects.

Yet when he came back from the drug test, the doctor had told him: "Everything else is fine, but please stop all that cannabis consumption..."

Yet he had had nothing but almost inactive leaf, and that 2 or 3 days before the test.

That's how accurate cannabis-tests are.

In future, people will have to decide between cannabis and having a license.

Many people need cannabis to cope with their lives, and it really does help them cope (not like alcohol, whichs just dulls everything and makes your brain malfunction, but doesn't help to cope, but becomes a major problem).

The same people also need a license mainly for their income.

With the new laws, having a license means: You can NEVER have cannabis, because it will show up even after weeks.

Yet the law will treat you as if you have been driving under the influence.

Anyone who would try to tell me, that smoking a few joints 48 hrs before driving, will have any influence on anyone's ability to drive whatsoever, is either a liar or an ignorant.

Or both.

The new law will stop those who can and want stop cannabis from consuming it.

Those who cannot and/or don't want to stop, can just go on driving until they get disqualified.

It doesn't matter, if you just smoked 10 g of hydro and then get into a car,

or if you had one gram of leaf 2 nights ago, the result will be the same.

the only winners here are the "legal drug lobby":

those who are pushing legal drugs like alc, tobacco, and prescription medication.

Many ppl use cannabis as an anti-depressant, because it is the best there is.

legal antidepressants will turn ppl into soul-less robots, who conform to spociety and do as they are told, but after many years of consumption can see no other way out but suicide.

After all, who wants to live without their dreams, hopes, or fears? You can't have one without the other, and legal antidepressants take all of these away.

Cannabis doesn't. It doesn't destroy your brain like alcohol does, there has never been any valid proof that cannabis causes braindamage, liver damage or similar. Alcohol does all this, it's well known and has been proven many times.

(I know a dude in germany, have known him for 30 years or so. He's now 60 (if he's still alive)and has been drinking heavily every day since he was 20. he is so brain-damaged that he can hardly put a whole sentence together properly. The last time I saw him, he started attacking me, in my mother's home, for no valid reason... I had to throw him over my shoulder a few times, but he wouldn't stop. Only why he was attacking me, he couldn't and wouldn't say. All he could mumble was :"You bastard, I'm gonna get you..."

Yet all of this is accepted by society.

cannabis isn't.

for the sole reason that it makes people critical of authorities (well, if they want to be that is).

If cannabis is not smoked, it becomes totally harmless and does not endanger one's health at all.

Yet society wants YOU to consume the dirt they prescribe for you and abstain from the only sustainable drug.

Crazy.

The new legislation will not save any lives, it will cost lives.

because those who need their license will switch from cannabis to alc, thus becoming more dangerous drivers.

Unless there is a test which only shows present inoxication and not some meaningless residue in the blood, tests for cannabis are totally unfair, unjust and simply wrong.

What additionally pisses me off, is that in Germany this laws have been applied by the RED/GREEN government, causing bitterness and poverty through loss of job for many people (including my ex).

This legislation stinks to heaven and if Labor and the greens support it I will not vote for them anymore.

I won't vote for anyone anymore, and just write "F you" on the election sheet.

[Salviador]

 

quote:

---

Police will test for the “active ingredients of substances” taken in the hours leading up the test.

---

Thc itself doesn't stay in the body for long. It get broken down over a period of hours into another chemical that is tested in standard drug tests. Therefore, if a saliva test actually tests for thc molecules in the saliva from the bong they just smoked, then i assume that will only show up as long as you can feel the effects.

This testing for pot issue was raised by the human rights people, i spose they sorted it out.

[narayan]

They where talking about this on triple J yesterday and supposedly the maximum amount of time you can test positive for THC is 4-5 hrs and the maximum time for ecstasy was 8 hrs and this is only when the users have had what was described as "heroic doses".

Plus they also said that there is only one bus in victoria that will be able to do the tests so I could imagine that it will only really be used to target truck drivers and people leaving major rave events, and maybe occasionally have it set up on the major highways.

In victoria testing positive for drugs while driving resulted in losing 3 demerit points and a $375 fine.

[ 01. December 2004, 10:54: Message edited by: narayan ]

[tomtom]

lucky for victorians..the nsw tests can be done by any patrol vehicle its a very portable saliva test and once tested positive you next step is in hospital for a blood confirmation ...

after looking up a few sites for drug test detection it seems the products that exist for saliva test avoidance simply dry out your saliva glands for a short period of time (30-40mins) and this somehow screws the test up ...

anyone know any more herbal type methods ?

[mescalito]

Quote-Nabraxas:“Research has shown that approximately 24 percent of drivers killed on NSW roads were found to have drugs in their system,” Mr Scully said. "

....and the other 76%??

Quote-Darklight:"I definitely don't approve of impaired drivers, I see too many of them on our roads ( and some of them are straight and sober- just consistently incompetent) "

I'm starting to see a patern here :D

[mescalito]

Besides, the drug impaired states that most regular or medicinal users, whether 'between drinks' or on the gear inhabit,are probably less impairing than the affects deriving from the reasons for their drug use or 'psyhposis' in the first place.

Blame shouldn't come into this from either side.

If it weren't for cars then this shit wouldn't even matter

[tomtom]

its all very good to belly ache about these new tests ,but just like random breath testing when it first came in it was tests first targeting truck drivers and pub/club goers ...sound familiar ? now its a standard roadside test you can see any day of the week ...now i dont argue that a PISSED driver should be shot on site

the only way to stop these drug TESTS from becoming a standard is to show they can be EASILY stuffed up or compromised...

[tomtom]

also its very strange that the state labour goverment that brought in this new drug test BUT when its voting time they take on a "i've tried dope stand please vote for me "attitude at least howard hasnt changed his views he hates drugs ( the shithead)personally i hate all these bullshiting two faced political liars ...

"short memory must have a ...short memory "

see now i'm belly aching :mad:

dont want to go politics on this thread

[Torsten]

the only reason why this state government is still in power is because it appeals so much to the liberals.

[2b]

Gomaos i must take issue with some of your statements as they appear misleading to me.

 

quote:

---

---

Many people need cannabis to cope with their lives, and it really does help them cope

Crap! I was a heavy dope smoker for over 20 years (first thing in the morning/last thing before i passed out,and every other chance in between... you know the idea)I used to think that i needed it to cope , but my friend it's the other way around. I know i am wasting my time trying to convince a smoker of this but i am sure deep down inside , just like me you know it's true. Dope creates all the problems you think you just can't deal with , but you'll have to find out if i'm right in your own time . I've no end of mates who are depressed struggling to pay bills and raise a family and claiming the only respite they get is when they smoke so life has to at least have one thing going for it ? Don't get me wrong i still smoke when i can , if it wasn't for the arrival of my first child and my wife constantly breaking my balls about always being stoned i would not have changed a thing .But now looking back on it i am amazed .

 

quote:

---

---

Many ppl use cannabis as an anti-depressant, because it is the best there is.

legal antidepressants will turn ppl into soul-less robots, who conform to spociety and do as they are told, but after many years of consumption can see no other way out but suicide.

In my eperience many ppl are depressed because they smoke dope, end of story. You know the type "the world is fucked because...."I must agree with you the antidepressant view tho, in my opinion multinational pharmacutical companies don't make product because it gives them a warm fuzzy feeling from helping mankind, it's all about profit.They make a case for their product and market it accordingly. I've seen friends claim depression from the dope they smoked, go on antidepressants (funny enough it always seems to be 'Zoloft' ?) and get worse from a social point of view .

It's a matter of cause and effect.......and it's just my opinion. :D

[psycho0]

could they prove u were actually smoking 8if u said u werew in a pub or somewhere with people smoking around u? could u get off on 'passive smoking' i wonder?

[mescalito]

For a minute there,I'm thinking "man I'd love to reply to this post...but hey I'm too pissed,too stoned...and way too depressed to type a legible answer here-plus I'm driving whilst writing on my laptop" then I realised that we must all be born with at least one psychosis to deal with and that to generalise on the mechanics of drug use,lifestyle or any other 'coping mechanisms' is totally unfair on those people that use these things realistically to help in their way of understanding the world.Besides that the metabolites can be detected well after the main effects are over.

(my stoned gnome dictated this response btw)

I'm not condoning DUI behaviour in any way but "bad driving" is not necessarily the fault of drug/alc use as is often heavily focused on in the media hype.Like DL said above there's just as many natural dickheads on the road but not much in the way of roadside dickhead tests!

On the hooch thing,some breeds are ok for some,some not(or oils aint oils..eh Sol?)

[nabraxas]

the state labour goverment that brought in this new drug test BUT when its voting time they take on a "i've tried dope stand please vote for me "attitude at least howard hasnt changed his views he hates drugs ---you're talking about bob carr, the labour leader ov NSW?

the guy whos daughter died ov a heroin overdose?

IMHO he's harder on drugs than howerd.

[tomtom]

when it comes time to vote dont get sucked in by the " we are considering de-criminalising dope" bullshit ....

no government (state or federal) ever will unless the can make a dollar out of it ...

we still have to find a way of stuffing up these tests .....

[tomtom]

"you're talking about bob carr, the labour leader ov NSW?

the guy whos daughter died ov a heroin overdose?

IMHO he's harder on drugs than howerd."

i think bob carr and the state labour team introduced shooting -up rooms up the Cross

yeah what a hard arse ...