Schedule "Death List"

[Thelema]

OK so the pre-june meeting of the NDPSC has taken place. After not considering Mitragynine in the Feb meeting as planned, it looks like it will be decided in the June meeting (as Torsten has already pointed out; for s9 along with speciosa)

Also on the death list for June is the scheduling of GBL, 14B, GBA, GHB, GABA(?) etc. Get your 14B etc now, or forever hold your peace.

If anyone has anything they'd like the NDPSC to consider re the scheduling of Mitragyna Speciosa then they must address one of the following points:

www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/tga1989191/s52e.html

you can email them before 20 May at [email protected]

The must consider your material.

[blog]

Thelema:

Also on the death list for June is the scheduling of GBL, 14B, GBA, GHB, GABA(?) etc. Get your 14B etc now, or forever hold your peace.

I was looking at this .pdf on my computer, (downloaded from I don't know where, tga?) and it has the following:

Category I

Lists chemicals that require an End User Declaration (EUD) with each purchase and may

only be sold to ‘account customers’ or customers that are prepared to open an account.(Please

note that cash sale transactions are not permitted for Category I Items).

(See Appendix 3 for ‘EUD Example Format’). Supply of these chemicals to End Users or

Distributors must be delayed for a period of not less than 24 hours.

Appendix 1

ILLICIT DRUG PRECURSORS/REAGENTS

CATEGORY I

For Sale to Account Customers Only - EUD Required

CHEMICAL NAME ALTERNATE NAME CAS NO

...

Gamma butyrolactone 96-48-0

Gamma hydroxybutyrate salts

...

Appendix 3

END-USER DECLARATION (EUD)

...I understand that to be supplied this product a signed end-user declaration must be provided together with an order, on identifiable company stationery...

Details of Collecting Agent’s Identification

Current Passport No:..............

Current Photograph Licence No: .............

******

Does that pretty much mean I don't have a hope in hell of buying GBL, 14B, and GHB

[ 29. April 2003, 17:33: Message edited by: blog ]

[Thelema]

yeah pretty much. even tho 14b is not on the list, supply companies are still treating it as though it is; ie.end-user declaration etc.

another era is over.

And then in a couple of months you wont be able to get any of these even WITH such a declaration.

[Rev]

Thats crazy! 1-4b is used in industry in large amounts! how the hell are they going to get around that????

[Terry Trichocerous]

I think that the shceduling of GBL, GHB etc is probably a good idea. It is abused so much by people at raves, its only a matter of time before kids begin dying. While G'ing isn't really that serious on its own if done in safe place, its only a matter of time before someone does themselves serious injuries, or dies. I've seen that many people G'd out smashing their heads on concrete with massive smiles on the faces for my opinion of GHB to be quite negative.

Its the kids who abuse chemicals to get 'fucked up' that ruin everything for responsible adults. Unfortunetly its not enough to simply say they must be responsible for there own actions. They never will be.

The sceduling of Mitragyna Speciosa would just be wrong. There is no abuse of this plant in Australia to my knowledge. It must be stopped.

[Darklight]

Terry Trichocerous:

Unfortunetly its not enough to simply say they must be responsible for there own actions.  They never will be.

That's one valid perspective, however I'd argue that we are increasingly living in a society where we are not encouraged to take responsibility for our actions- CEOs mumble about the economy and retire with a golden handshake having left a company in ruins and retrenched thousands of staff, people try to sue local councils for swimming injuries, or companies for not providing idiot-proof coffe cup lids-you name it and its getting sillier

Our children ( well, not mine, my nieces and nephews certainly ) are being raised into this environment , and under the paradigm of the nanny state. Under circumstances where there is no cultural context for either risk-taking behaviour, responsible experimentation or personal responsibility I'd argue that such behaviour is part and parcel of human existence, and trying to legislate its extinction is only going to make things worse. It's going to take a big sea-change to stop the social trend of overcompensating for individual poor judgement and accident ( and I dread to think what will happen when the pendulum swings to the opposite side: I don't pretend to have solutions for this )

This doesn't justify stupid behaviour, of course, but if we could outlaw stupid behaviour we'd be able to abolish practically every other tricky law in existence

[Tryptameanie]

Making drugs illegal, even dangerous ones like opiates or alcohol, just makes things worse- you get adulterants, high prices,overdoses due to varying purity, theft and violence. GHB etc are safer and less toxic than alcohol. They may be superior to benzos for insomnia, as they have few side-effects and are alledged to provide a more refreshing sleep.

[Skulking Lurker]

I agree with Darklight.

Darwin Awards for the idiots.

[t st tantra]

IMO

until 'our' society comes to terms with drugs,shamanism,entheogens etc it will continue to produce people who want to get fucked up.

this soulless society is the problem and the task we really face.

'true beleiver'LOL

t s t .

[gomaos]

things should be prohibited because kids could die

well in that case I also want prohibited:

motor cars and cycles

All sorts of sports because they are very dangerous, most of all: Boxing, all forms of foot-and other balls, skiing(very dangerous),SKATEBOARDING, GYMNASTICS,etc etcetc.

Come to think of it even jogging is very dangerous you could be run over by cars,

Also Chemistry should not be taught at schools because that is dangerous,

all kids that are potential bullies have to be locked up until 18 years of age cos they could kill someone,

sex must also be prohibited, because women and babies could die at birth, and what about Aids...

actually nobody should be allowed to walk on roads or foothpaths because that is potentially very dangerous....

I'd say there's a million other things that could kill kids

Also Governments MUST be prohibited because they kill people all the time, directly or indirectly, the medical profession must be outlawed, how many people die under the surgeons knife...

and so on...but not 1,4,b because if administered properly it's totally harmless, and if kids want to commit suicide there are 1000 other ways, just look at all the chemical cleaners under the kitchensink, they would be totally lethal...

I think people who make drugs laws are total hippocrits, idiots who don't know what they are doing and talking about and are destroying 1000s of innocent lives ..."the worst people are those who destroy other people's lives and then say it is FOR THEIR OWN GOOD"(bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, who got executed by Cia or FBI)

Since I cAn think the Governments(all of them, except holland) have AlwAys been lying about drugsand continue to do so not to protect their citizens but to keep down alternative movements which could cost them their jobs.

1,4,b is great at the right dosage.

If you drink the whole bottle you die but you can have something for that purpose at any supermarket, much much cheaper than gbl :confused: :mad:

[ 10. May 2003, 16:05: Message edited by: gomaos ]

[Anodyne]

Back to the mitragyna...

Does anyone know what kind of information they already have? It's not one of those "report to the Health Minister" sort of things is it? because I've read some of those, and FUCK, I've never seen a document crammed so full of misleading statistics and blatant factual errors.

And also, is there any point in trying to get them to reconsider? I mean, when thelema says "they must consider your material", does this just mean that they'll consider whether they'll bother scrunching it up before they throw it away? Or do they actually need to discuss it? Does it need to be peer-reviewed scientific research? Will a passionate objection to closing it off from future research, on the grounds that they don't have enough evidence to warrant it, actually make a bit of difference? Or would I just be handing over my name and address to some unfriendly, close-minded organisation? Has anyone else officially objected?

So many questions...

[SirLSD]

************* read***************

has anyone that has tried mitragynine also tried tramadol? tramadol is kinda the new kid on the block when it comes to pain relief. it works as a weak opioid agonist with seretonin and noradrenaline reuptake inhibition. so it works in two ways: weak opiod effects and reduced transmission of pain signals in nerves due to the effects on seretonin and noradrenaline. it is said to be of a low abuse potential because it is only a weak opioid agonist. it is becoming a popular choiceg for use in the treatment of moderate pain due to many factors, as it is only a weak opioid therefore less potential for abuse or dependence. it also causes less constapation, resp dipression and other opioid side effects. it is replacing prescribing of panadeine forte in a noticable percentage of cases for these reasons.

you would have a very good point if you argued that mitragynine could be used in the same manner as tramadol and that more reasearch is needed before the drug is written off into schedule nine.

i doubt the NDPSC could dispute what ive just said. if they could id be interested in seeing the facts they have on it. though i doubt any research has been done which is exactly why it shouldnt be put into schedule nine when it shows a unique multifactorial mechanism of action, similar to tramadol. you cannot say thet mytragynine has NO medical potential!

though i havent tried mitragynine so i cant give a subjective comparison.

im sorry but my diplomatic skills suck arse. if anyone wants to write an argument stating what i have stated and present to the NDPSC be my guest. ill help you where i can.

[ 10. May 2003, 19:25: Message edited by: SirLSD ]

[gomaos]

Write to those suckers?

It would be just like a jew asking the nazis not to build concentration camps...

they think they are so superior....

[Terry Trichocerous]

Gomaos, I fully understand your point. I am certainly against the oppressive drug laws that exist in todays society.

However the ethnobotanical community is doing itself a disservice by claiming that our government is destroying thousands of lives by making certain chemicals illegal. GHB has a very negative image in the publics eye. People abuse it largely because it is so cheap. Making it illegal will reduce its usage, thus making it a very simple point scoring excercise for the government. Arguing with this will have you labeled a crack pot, and your ideas about Kratom will not be heard. Its a shitty way this political / media game works, but its the way of the world my freind.

The Mitragynine situation is different. It is not abused and has real potential benefits that really need to be explored (GHB also has trementdous benefits, but no one will hear them at the moment). This will not happen if it is scheduled, and it is more likely to be scheduled if the people protesting its scheduling are dissmissed as anti-government crack pots.

My thoughts are, lets concentrate on Mitragynine now and wait for the GHB situation to die down a little bit. Hopefully one day down the track undeniable research will be published into GHBs benefits and kids will have stopped abusing it (due to price increases)and it will be possible for us to help GHB become legal and useful. But for now, GHBs negative effects have too much media attention.

[silent_bob84au]

ok most ppl here are saying teenagers/ younger twenties are using ghb for raves ect ect.

and that it is increasing in its use.

well, i go clubbing and stuff all the time, and i would never have heard of ghb if it wasnt for the simple fact that while researching somthing on the internet i came across it.

ghb is not this big thing int he public eye, my bets are that maybe 1 in 25 ppl know what it is MAYBE some people i know are taking everything and anything and when i asked if any of them have tried ghb its "wtf is that"

[Torsten]

ghb is big in the body building / gym scene. It has its appropriate uses there, but has been dragged into the clubs from this community. You're unlikely to find it at a lot of raves or certain clubs, but it is quite prolific in gay, glam and very commercial clubs. And most people don't know its real name... it generally goes by the name of 'fantasy'.