Mitragyna and mitragynine heading for schedule 9

[Torsten]

Bad news. The bastards are actually planning to put mitragyine AND Mitragyna speciosa into the highest schedule in australia. As far as the law is concerned this makes it as illegal as heroin, cocaine etc. They have foreshadowed the S9 schedule, but have passed it on to the next meeting in a month or two. From there the decision will be made which will then become law within 3-6 months usually.

SAB will be making plenty of plants available before scheduling takes effect (and won't sell any afterwards). Please don't e-mail me about it yet as we don't have ANY in stock at the moment and our enxt shipment has been delayed by several weeks. Not taking any pre-orders.

[Tryptameanie]

Noooooooooo! :mad: :confused:

[infinite_monkey]

the bastards :mad:

[woof woof woof]

So this means "so illegal that having the plant allone could get you into trouble with the long arm of the law , ...... Now I really want this plant! :D

seriously! I do, It is bout time.

[Auxin]

Too bad its a frost tender tropical tree or people wanting to avoid illegal activities could just send me their seeds. If people have spare seeds they should consider sending them to SAB members in the tropcs so they could grow them and when the Australian revolution happens those people could redistribute seeds to the liberated aussie people.

Hey brian, do you like that idea?

[planthelper]

there are basicly no seeds of this one, only plants.

[Torsten]

interestingly, Mitragyna speciosa has been suggested to be an australian native. Maybe a confusion with a Nauclea sp, but maybe the real thing.

[Thelema]

The more eloquent among us might take this opportunity to send to the NDPSC any information whatsoever (pref. reports published in the scientific literature)regarding the abuse/safety hazards/virtue of this plant and substance.

Any literature recieved by them within the next month must be considered by them b4 making a scheduling decision.

At least if they're going to make a decision, let them at least make it informed; not like last years SD debacle.

[woof woof woof]

Auxin:

Too bad its a frost tender tropical tree or people wanting to avoid illegal activities could just send me their seeds. If people have spare seeds they should consider sending them to SAB members in the tropcs so they could grow them and when the Australian revolution happens those people could redistribute seeds to the liberated aussie people.

Hey brian, do you like that idea?

Yeahhh, send me your seeds/cuttings too, please. I am an SAB frequenter (member?) in the tropics

nahhhh, it is not a happy thought indeed and I wasn't serious when I said it , but it kind of reflects the nature of things with drugs & kids today....., ""because it is illegal, many if not most kids seem more curious about wanting to know about drugs, making the temptation greater to test it"".

I was temped once, and of course I failed the test the Gods put before me misirably :D

[Robert]

I'm just kind of curious about why the desire for this tree when all the information about usage of it indicates less than desirable results. I for one have the plant and after using it a couple different times got absolutely nothing from it. It would be refreshing to hear something positive about it, including preparation directions, (that work) as eating the leaves aren't doing it for me. Its supposed to be the real deal (purchased from a reliable source), but maybe I got a "dud". Is there a way to test the plant (leaf test) to see if it's the plant we've all been hearing about, but can't seem to find?

[Darklight]

Reville & I have both done bioassays on this with positive results- a search here should turn them up. They're also on Erowid.

It may look suss that it was us that did them- its hardly an arm's length transaction- but waited so many years for someone else/ general public to do bioassays that I just gave up waiting and made myself a cuppa with some lemon juice in it

Extensive bioassays ( multi dose level etc ) still have yet to be done- waiting on plant material to become available before they S9 it

The whole mitragyna scheduling thing really really pisses me off: my own investigations show that the plant has definite potential in a number of directions- including addiction interruption. I really should put more time ito finding out exactly what the TGA justifications are- whether they were based, for example, on the interest shown in the fake plant material currently doing the rounds. But atm I'm too cross to be eloquent, I'll have to wait a week or so before I can make official type noises on the topic which are credible

[Torsten]

The reason why there are so few reports on this species is that there just hasn't been enough good material to go around. A few years ago Rob Montgomery had a whole heap and the majority who got that stuff were impressed with it. However most of those weren't people who write on forums. Many of them will however include their experiences into books etc, but that takes longer.

So far everyone I have given our material to has reported good effects. Again, these were people with a high reputation and a reliable bioassay protocol (there's nothing more annoying than giving some precious materila to someone who then assays it while smoking pot).

Anyway, the experience is out there. It would be kinda silly to think that millions of thai love the stuff but the rest of the world doesn't.

As for your plant, a far as I can tell there are no dodgy plants available anywhere. Growing your own is still the best option.

When consuming it, consider that it is often taken in a concentrated form such as biak balls. Also, as most thrill seekers insist on inhaling things, many negative reports are based on smoking the material, which is simply a waste. Some people also find their howgrown material ineffective even if consumed right. This is often due to the way the plant is grown. For some reason (and we speculate, but don't know why this is so) the plants don't produce alkaloids when grown in a hothouse. The alkaloid profile also changes in cold seasons (in warm climates) to an unpleasant mix. In cold climates the alkaloid levels are low all year.

So, there are many factors that play a role here, but it is certainly not the plant itself.

[Rev]

Ive tried it on 3 occasions

Once was leaves grown all season outdoors in perth and harvested about this time of year.

2 medium leaves eaten gave a distinct effect - relaxing and euphoric, the leaves had bronzed slightly.

The second time was my erowid report using 10g of not quite dried leaf in tea.

The effects were strong and definite - the planst were grown in a 'sort of' hothouse and were harvested in october? from plants in nthn NSW - all green but mature leaves

the third time was mid summer from leaves grown in perth again in a hothouse - no effects were noted.

It seems to me like when in active growth they are weak.

I dont smoke cannabis so im definitely free of its subjective altering effects.

It seems that malaysia has also banned it.

A malay guy told me of a tree banned several years ago after the authorities noted heroin addicts boiling up the leaves after coming down.

He says the govt cut down all the trees.

Sounds like it to me....

[gomaos]

I smoke a little kratom leaf every day against alc cravings.

Works well.

[Tree]

We have a family member with chronic pain that would like to try this herb (Kratom) before it becomes alot harder to obtain .

What is being done to fight the schedule 9??

Are there any studies that confirm its pain reducing properties? If so then what an argument.

If it really is effective for pain management then what a life saver for those in pain - and there are many.

[Rev]

In my experiences there was no analgesic properties whatsoever.

Perhaps go looking in the Papveraceae, and relatives of hops for good medical analgesics.

[Tree]

 

quote:

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Originally posted by reville:

 

In my experiences there was no analgesic properties whatsoever.

 

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With reference to SAB archives

 

quote:

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Originally posted by rkundalini:

 

posted 25 October, 2001 01:18

 

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"Paul E. Wogg", The Entheogen Review 8 (1) 2000 p 55:

 

quote:

 

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Pain Reliever? One collegue with severe pain, for which he is prescribed high doses of opiate analgesics, tried using the dried leaf to ease his withdrawal and reduce his current dose of 1.4 gm morphine and 24 mg dilaudid per day (as kratom is rumored to be effective in curbing opiate withdrawal). He said that he found it very useful, not necessarily so much to curb with withdrawal (it is unclear if it helped with this aspect or not), but he found that it tended to relieve the pain -- not just distract him from it, as his prescription opiates did). Another collegue who was sent a sample reported the anxiolytic effects, but with an unexpected beneficial side-effect of relieving his chronic lower-back pain. He said that a small amount chewed in the afternoon or early evening (perhaps below threshold psychoactive levels) relieved his back pain for the rest of the day, with pain returning the following morning.

 

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We hope that this effect with Kratom may result.

I think it is one of those things, if it has not been tried then we will not know. :confused:

Take care

[Rev]

sure - perhaps it is effective against some type of pain.

Ive had experience with 3 types of opiate receptor analgesics

Codeine,Corydalis and mitragyna. and that seems to be their order in pain relief.

My definitely psychoactive dose of mitragyna did absolutely nothing to relieve a sore hand and slight headache present before the consumption of the tea, kind of a stimulating then sedating euphoria without pain relief. Your experience may vary.

On the other and ive found a 10g decoction of Corydalis turtschaninovii tubers or less taken throughout the day to be a highly effective pain reliever particularly for muscular and joint pain where infalammation is a problem. And in itself a pleasant experience.

[Tree]

Reville, thanks for your reply.

What are Corydalis turtschaninovii tubers??

The person mainly suffers form neuropathic pain. Over a number of years, they have tried a large range of treatments and medications including surgery and have found opiates to be the most effective.

It would be great if Kratom was effective for neuropathic pain. Maybe it works with the opiate??.

With ref. to the previous quote:"Paul E. Wogg", The Entheogen Review 8 (1) 2000 p 55:

If it worked like this for some people then may be there is something to this.

We are hoping

Thanks again

Take care

[ 17. May 2003, 22:38: Message edited by: Tree ]

[Tryptameanie]

Can you provide some references on corydalis (esp pharmacology eg alkoloids present and their receptor binding profiles)?

[Auxin]

Yeah rev, you've mentioned Corydalis turtschaninovii several times over the last year or two. You should start a thread in ethnobotany and write up what you know (dont do it in this thread, we want the archives all neat and organized).

[Rev]

sure once i get my refernce books back. its been VERY humid here and all sorts of things were going mouldy - so i sent my valuables inland

Ill get it back soon

[mescalito]

That'd be excellent