saguaro Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 Over the past few years, fentanyl has claimed many lives in the US and elsewhere. Concerningly, many other drugs such as methamphetamine, cocaine, MDMA and even cannabis oils have been adulterated with synthetic opioids like fentanyl, leading to accidental overdoses and deaths. Fentanyl has never been as big of a problem in Australia as it has been in the US. However, nitazenes have been seized in increasing amounts in the UK and Australia. Recently, 4 people died of opioid overdoses in Melbourne taking cocaine adulterated with nitazenes. I fear this issue will escalate in Australia and we may see a similar situation with nitazenes here as we have seen with fentanyl in the US. At some point, someone is deliberately mixing cocaine or other drugs with nitazenes or fentanyl. Resultingly, people who may be opioid-naïve and were expecting to take cocaine or meth end up dying of an overdose. I'm curious why this is happening and what these people stand to gain from doing this. Are they trying to get customers addicted to opioids? If people die in this way surely it prompts an investigation, I don't know how the scumbags doing this are benefitting from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyzygy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 You mean, why cut cocaine with fentanyl etc. when you could just cut with baking powder or Panadol? Maybe, as you suggest, unscrupulous dealers do want to promote dependency and addiction. I doubt they'd want their clients to overdose too frequently though, because that would diminish sales. If Big Pharma can promote dependency and addiction and not give a shit about consequences, why wouldn't black-market bottom-feeders do likewise? Prohibition only encourages criminal and risky behaviour. Sick, sad world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halif Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 Seems like there's always something worse - "worse" in the sense of being more dangerous - coming out the harder authorities try to suppress the use of existing (or 'classical', I guess) drugs like heroin. I'm not sure how protonitazine compares to fentanyl in terms of potency but it seems to be at least as dangerous. As far as I know, it is possible to get naloxone without a script from a few places in Victoria, but it would be good if it were more widely available seeing as how it is not dangerous and only serves the purpose of reversing opioid overdoses. If fent and nitazines are going to be showing up unexpectedly, it would be good to have some recourse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saguaro Posted August 25 Author Share Posted August 25 (edited) 3 hours ago, fyzygy said: You mean, why cut cocaine with fentanyl etc. when you could just cut with baking powder or Panadol? Basically yeah, that's my question. Why are these people cutting other drugs with opioids that could kill their customers and are also not what they're looking for. Sure, it's unregulated, but its a big leap from cutting it with inert things to make more money versus adulterating with potentially lethal opioids. It's pretty terrible if their hoping to get people addicted to the opioids they're selling by any means and killing people in the process. Customers get pissed off enough with greedy dealers cutting too much, I think cutting with nitazenes would come back to bite you. It just doesn't make sense to me. Sure, there are some parallels between Big Pharma's dodgy sales tactics, but I think this is even more depraved there's no justification for it I can see. I've heard in the US some dealers benefit from the notoriety that their customers die because it means they have quality product and improves their sales which is pretty awful. Edited August 25 by saguaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayN Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 I simply don't believe that dealers would "cut" with fent or zines - these substances don't have any bulk to add defeating the entire purpose of cutting. As for increasing the dependency that too would be questionable - coke's pretty good at that on its own and combining an upper with a downer seems a little counterintuitive if your clientele are looking for the former and might just think your shit is weak. I wonder if its just contamination at some point. Wouldn't take much. The contamination could be accidental or something more sinister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyzygy Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Just when I was wondering what happened to SayN ... I've read that even ketamine has been cut/contaminated with fentanyl. Maybe the stuff is a bit like micro-plastics or PFAS, simply everywhere. But it's a good distinction to draw, whether a product has been cut, or simply contaminated. Pretty sloppy business practices, either way. It's ironic that poisons are scheduled as such in order to keep them out of inexpert hands, and harm's way. But maybe the law is driving the overdose phenomenon, unintentionally. I've witnessed cocaine being cut, but with Panadol. I've seen cannabis crops sprayed with household insecticides. The driver in both cases was simply greed, which overpowered any moral considerations. As the perpetrators knew only too well: these products sell themselves, to an eager market. Quality control is pretty lax, on both the producer and the consumer's part, when scarcity has been engineered by prohibition. Criminals are made by criminal laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyzygy Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 Speak of the devil ... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-27/australia-nitazenes-drugs-naloxone-nightspots-harm-minimisation/104233180 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SayN Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 Forever lurking Re: that article and the dude from Honolulu. Frankly, i'm not sure it is a venue's responsibility to carry naloxone and have to train staff in its use for people illegally consuming drugs in their venue. This sounds like a huge liability all round and certainly not something you'd sign up for as (an underpaid) hospitality worker. So much could go wrong. Then again i'm one for personal reponsibility... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saguaro Posted August 28 Author Share Posted August 28 (edited) Thanks for your responses guys The Panadol thing is pretty standard as far as I'm aware. Might as well call it Coke Zero with how badly most people are getting ripped off. Boric acid and other things have been used, which could cause testicular atrophy. All in the name of $ Using Mortein on cannabis crops is moronic, but at least it make senses in a cause-and-effect sort of way to someone who doesn't care about quality or know much about horticulture. 23 hours ago, SayN said: I wonder if its just contamination at some point. Wouldn't take much. The contamination could be accidental or something more sinister. Maybe cutting was a misnomer, I'm just genuinely puzzled how high potency opioids are contaminating a plethora of other recreational drugs the world over. I was just curious if this is a systematic thing that groups of people are doing for a specific purposes or just bad quality control with dealers mixing up cocaine and fentanyl on the same table with same razor type of thing. Part of me thinks there is more to the picture Edited August 28 by saguaro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyzygy Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 This article gives three (or four) possible explanations (including deliberate user - not dealer - contamination): https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/5/4/17307296/cocaine-opioid-crisis-fentanyl-overdose. A fuller explanation would be ... "all of the above." The following sentence reminded me of SayN's comment: Quote It’s not that these sellers are taking the risk of pissing off or even killing their customers for some nefarious scheme to give their product more kick or get buyers addicted to other drugs; they just don’t know what they’re doing. In other words, accidental contamination seems probable, as the EPA seems to be aware: https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/remediation-fentanyl-contaminated-indoor-environments. Alas, with great power (or potency) comes great responsibility. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halif Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 On 8/28/2024 at 2:19 PM, SayN said: Re: that article and the dude from Honolulu. Frankly, i'm not sure it is a venue's responsibility to carry naloxone and have to train staff in its use for people illegally consuming drugs in their venue. This sounds like a huge liability all round and certainly not something you'd sign up for as (an underpaid) hospitality worker. So much could go wrong. Then again i'm one for personal reponsibility... I agree with this and am also personally big on personal responsibility, but the line of where that lies gets blurry when shit like fent or nitazenes start showing up in 'Ecstasy' , fake benzos, ket, and wherever else. When weaponised opioids that can cause a fatal overdose with just the tiniest dusting of substance are floating around in unexpected places, it's hard for anyone to use drugs in a safe way. Also, the idea that nitazenes are showing up in these places as a contaminant sounds more plausible to me than just about any other scenario. The whole situation is just wild (and not in a good way). The progression of novel substances has lead to some really scary shit. I may have dabbled a little in synthetic cannabinoids many years ago - JWH-018 and AM-2200 or something like that - but I wouldn't touch a novel cannabinoid with a 10-foot bong these days. Those things have turned into monstrosities... Frankenstein's chemical monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyzygy Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 Nitazenes in fake Xanax, ecstasy tablets and "THC" vapes? Sheesh. On 8/31/2024 at 7:43 PM, Halif said: fent or nitazenes start showing up in 'Ecstasy' , fake benzos, ket, and wherever else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halif Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-15/nitazene-detections-australia-overdose-deaths-broadmeadows/104327798 Quote Stronger than fentanyl and hundreds of times more potent than heroin, the drugs have been found in illicit substances ranging from MDMA and cocaine to counterfeit pharmaceuticals. Organised crime groups are increasingly cutting other drugs with nitazenes because they “see it as a cheap alternative”, AFP Commander Paula Hudson says. They see it as a cheap cutting agent? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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