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Ishmael Fleishman

Options For Mood Stabilzer

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Can anyone give me suggestions for Options For Mood Stabilizers, herbs or supplements that has data to back it?

 

I have a problem with my emotions - I am up and down - I have been worried that I might be bipolar - I struggle controlling my feelings - from joy to sadness - I have been wanting to talk to my Dr - about taking a mood stabilizer medication - I know it is a problem - some days I am full of energy and I do things and then the smallest trouble and I feel devastated and can barely do anything and my emotions are just down - I feel flat - then I pick myself up and I feel better again with some good news but it does not take much for my emotions go down again - I know this makes it hard for people around me - I think it is aggravated by my life situation.

 

A quick search says Chocolate, and Fermented Foods - I do not like meat and fish but I see it suggested. Regular exercise anything else.

 

In the past I was on Sodium Valproate but I do not feel it was very effective. The only other options seems to be Valium but I have seen people on Valium and its not good.

 

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Posted (edited)

Best talking with your Dr but as an adjunct, not to be considered medical advice:

Omega-3's seem pretty mood stabilising in most studies "sources state that omega-3s may have a mood stabilising effect and help with short-term symptoms of bipolar disorder"

Dietary ketosis seems very stabilising, maybe could add some MCTs to your diet if you can't go full keto

Lithium is natural, while high doses are only good suggested under medical supervision, some people find  low dose lithium orotate can have some benefits

N-acetyl-cysteine seems to have some 'leveling effects' and evidence for it's use in diverse mental health conditions

5-HTP or tryptophan might level out some emotional volatility

If it's anxious distress, maybe something like oral lavender oil capsules you can get at the chemist which has similar levels of effect size on such as SSRIs and BZDs

I found L-tetrahydropalmatine leveling

Something like theanine? Taurine, Glutamine etc. Calming herbs. Whole range of more calming things out there that might dampen excitatory neurotransmission a bit for you

Considered something like inositol? You need quite high doses and the level of evidence as a mood stabiliser isn't great but it's benign
 

Edited by Alchemica

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Posted (edited)

Be very careful with 5HTP. I had to throw mine away yesterday. I tried it for  inducing dreams. 200 mg did nothing, so I tried 400. I was sick, flu like with chills for two days. I repeated it a month later and got the same, so it was for real. Real bad crap for some people like me. And no dreams of course. 400 is supposed to be a tolerable amount, but for me was scary.

The correct pharmaceutical could really help you, just keep working with your doctor and find it. BTW, Don't try to treat yourself with psychoactive drugs, they are more likely going to fuck your mind if you already have a problem. The internet is full of bs miracle cures, but I've seen the opposite occur.

Edited by Alchemist

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Posted (edited)

@Alchemica

 

lithium orotate I think might be the first option - I will talk to my GP - I however have impaired kidney function -

 

It looks like Lithium Orotate is not a prescription medication in Australia and can only be bought as a supplement - this introduces problems with quality control and dosage - what brand actually has any Lithium Orotate in it as the specified dose. Any recommendations.

 

Also it looks like no Chemist even caries it where I live.

 

I am not sold on Omega-3 - it was once a panacea for cardiovascular disease, depression, autism, etc however as time goes on its seems to no better the placebo

 

Ketosis might be an option, I have found that when I fast I get a lift in my moods. Sustaining ketosis however will be the challenge. I do not like meat and the consumption of large amounts of fat leads to gastrointestinal problems, really bad loose stools.

 

Fasting is also poorly understood amongst doctors and the general public find the concept horrifying - "what you mean no food". I have been called crazy for not eating for three days.

 

@Alchemist

 

I once tried very low dose  magic mushrooms and my mood was foul for several days and I have been unwilling to try again

 

I have however found San Pedro to be very helpful in lifting my depression and lifting my mood for a period afterwards. I have had breakthrough experiences with it and might consider microdosing.

 

 

 

Edited by Ishmael Fleishman

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10 hours ago, Alchemist said:

Be very careful with 5HTP. I had to throw mine away yesterday.

i just add that i don't respond well to tryptophan either, makes me edgy, unwell.

i don't like ssri's either, in pills or the herb, but growing sceletium would be my choice for you.

capii lfts depression after one puff, but i don't know if it's leveling out highs.

topic starter you are experienced but naturaly all those suggestions have interactions with other drugs, which need to be avoided.

eating more fish can help at times.

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@withdrawl clinic

 

I have been growing sceletium but I have not had enough for a regular supply however now that winter is here it is spreading fast hopefully I will have a few square meters by the end of winter.

 

However I have over 150 seedlings of delosperma bosseranum if I can get them into the ground it will have an endless supply.

 

capii is interesting but hard to get and impossible to grow where I live - made me wonder about smoking Peganum harmala - a quick search and found this https://www.erowid.org/plants/syrian_rue/syrian_rue_info8.shtml

 

I can tolerate eating fish might give it a try more often

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Ishmael Fleishman said:

Lithium Orotate in it as the specified dose. Any recommendations.

 

Also it looks like no Chemist even caries it where I live.

 

Get it on amazon.  Only ever try one substance at a time, never mix them and dont be tempted to quit early, give it time. Use lowest dosage first and increase only after a couple of weeks. 

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Just poking around reading about lithium came across this

 

Classic Psychedelic Coadministration with Lithium, but Not Lamotrigine, is Associated with Seizures: An Analysis of Online Psychedelic Experience Reports

 

https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/pdf/10.1055/a-1524-2794.pdf

 

Quote

Results Strikingly, 47 % of 62 lithium plus psychedelic reports
involved seizures, and an additional 18 % resulted in bad trips
while none of 34 lamotrigine reports did. Further, 39 % of lith-
ium reports involved medical attention. Most of the lamotrig-
ine reports (65 %) but few (8 %) of the lithium reports were
judged to not affect the psychedelic experience.

 

However the above would have been for 900mg - 1200mg range of lithium carbonate instead of 20mg of lithium orotate - so it maybe not hold water but it is something to be mindful of.

 

Found a seller of lithium orotate - but will wait to talk to my GP.

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Posted (edited)

I saw my GP today to discuss my options. Now, my GP is pretty good, but it was not a good conversation. In short, his hands are tied by the TGA.

 

So he was not familiar with lithium orotate because it is not on the PBS, and so he cannot prescribe it. He was not keen on lithium carbonate, and again, I would not meet the TGA diagnostic criteria.

 

I have tried sodium valproate in the past, but I did not respond to it. All remaining mood stabilizers have nasty side effects, and again, he felt they were not worth the risk.

 

He said Omega-3 supplementation will help a few percentage points, but it will not be a huge improvement, and it will take a year of daily use to see any even minor benefits. Considering the cost per month over the years, it does not make sense.

 

SRRI's are off the table because they do not work for me.

 

He suggested MAOI's; however, I would not meet the TGA diagnostic criteria for MAOI's, and in Australia, only the non-reversing MAOI's are approved by the TGA. So this is not an option unless I use a plant-based version; however, doing so would be illegal in Australia. To be honest if the Lithium Orotate fails to improve my condition I might consider plant-based MAOI.

 

The only other option he gave me was tricyclic antidepressants; again, he was not keen on that as an option due to the side effects. However, as he said, there is little to nothing that can be done for mood; all he can give me is stuff to reduce the symptoms of the low points.

 

So we are back to Lithium Orotate; the bottle came today, and I will start taking two 5-mg tablet a day and see how I tolerate it. I read that up to 30 mg per day should be safe. I will give it 3 months, and we can see if there are improvements.

 

His parting words was "Welcome to our TGA".

Edited by Ishmael Fleishman

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Hope it helps you mate!

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same here, i hope all of this helps, ishmael!

 

as well i want to point out, that this thread shows how complicated and not as straight forward as some docs, this issues can be.

you are lucky, your doctor is good, as many docs, just presrcibe ssri's, without even checking for contra indications with other meds.

ssri's have now lost a lot of there "shine" as doctors are starting to find out that, it's very difficult for some people to stop ssri's and nsri's.

ethno people disscused this many years ago, glad to see the "professionals" chatching up, hehehe.

 

sorry for the slight highjack of the thread, but i want to add my own experience, with one point.

one of my previous doctors said (after i said, some people find it hard to stop ssri's, THEY ARE ADDICTIVE) if i give you a substance, than it's not addiction!!!!

poor imbecil doctor, i wonder how many lives he destroyed, but "feels" he's done soooooo much good!

 

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Posted (edited)

SRRI's are a medical panacea; there is no condition for which they have not been prescribed. Their use and promotion are one of the best examples of snake oil marketing ever.

 

More recent, less rose-coloured research shows that SRRI's are only marginally more effective than placebo, and once side effects are factored in, SSRI's have a net negative benefit.

 

Doctors, however, lacking any better treatments, persist in using them, but the true benefit of SRRI's is not the drug but rather an article of religious faith in medical science to overcome the intractable human condition of suffering and despair.

 

The problem with SSRIs is that the general public has come to believe in them as children believe in magic. Doctors, governments, and the community have drunk Cool Aid for so long that SRRI's are the soma that Aldous Huxley warned us about. People grossly overestimate the effectiveness of all drugs. I know of several people with minor mental health concerns who have been giving ever-increasing doses of SRRI's. Who when asked to report any benefits from their ever increase drug dependence. Admit that the drugs do work as they expected. However, with pressure from doctors and family combined with the broader society's enamoration of SRRIs, they persist in there use to the detriment of their health.

 

In my time, I have prescribed five types of SRRIs. To everyone those I had negative reactions, from violent rage to suicidal ideation to weight gain and sexual dysfunction. Only one had the benefit of making me sleep, and that sleepiness was helpful. However, after 12 years of use with no sex drive and the SRRI was clearly no longer effective, my current doctor suggested we should come off them. It took almost six months for the pounding headaches to stop.

 

I now flatly reject any suggestion by any doctor to give me any SRRI for any condition. A HARD NO!

 

As for your doctors claim that what he gives you cannot be addictive indicates either a god complex that he can do no wrong and or a total lack of any capacity for insight and self reflection.

 

 

EARLY FEEDBACK ON Lithium Orotate

 

I have been dosing 5mg of Lithium Orotate three times a day for 6 days. I have observed that I still have ups and downs however my ruminations on the downs do not seem to persist. I will report back in future.

Edited by Ishmael Fleishman

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one time i saw some footage of a rave in israel, and the young girl took a high dose of ssri's as a dance party drug.

i think, it's very important to talk to other people, with similar experiences, because like this we can learn and start to understand what might be happening.

 

i used to smoke a lot of weed, and when i took a break, the first 3 day's i took zyprexa. only a chance encounter with another human being, whilst being held up in a waiting room, made me realise that, zyprexa caused that suicidal feeling. never took zyprexa again, and never had to experience this "low".

drug trials are always flawed, because the tests are done by humans, with a certain mind set on hand.

it could be even quantum physics at play here...

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