Help me explain drugs and 'our world' to my father

[Chemical Shaman]

Hey all,

The story is this, some time ago I lent a fair amount of cash to my old man to help get him out of a bit of shit. Anyways it's been ages and a while ago i tried to collect this money, and he basically said to me "I already paid you back."

Anyways im pretty damn sure he never did pay me back and we're currently having a rather heated argument. What he is insinuating is that he paid me back the money just before I left for one of my trips up north and that I must have gone up north and spent it all on drugs and gotten so fucken high that i forgot he paid me back.

Now i'll admit, this is slightly possible. But not really that probable.

To give you a little bit of background on my dad, he is the sort of person that watches A Current Affair (enough said). I could not think of a single person on this earth that would benefit more from ayahuasca than my father, for more reasons than I have time to possibly explain. Unfortunately I don't ever see this happening.

Anyways so he sends me this email, basically saying that he thinks I spent the money on drugs and bla bla bla and it occurred to me, that with the way he was talking about drugs that he really has NO fucking clue at all about what drugs are really all about. It's as though everything that this fuck face knows about drugs he got from either A Current Affair or The Herald Sun.

So basically I want to explain to him in words, that he is wrong about drugs, that there is so much more to drugs than most people realise, that there is this whole other world out there.

That we as psychedelic drug users are more aware of ourselves, our planet and indeed our universe than MOST other people on this planet. That drugs arent about just getting fucked up and fucking up your life etc etc.

My dad thinks that the cops are just so fantastic, that they know everything and that they are in the right about everything etc etc. I want to explain to him that they aren't any smarter than "us druggies" that they aren't any better. Quite the opposite, they are simply the ones with the guns.

So yeah, I sit down to write this email explaining drugs and the psychedelic mind to my father and I don't have any words.

Im hoping that some of you could maybe come up with a paragraph or two, explaining how the WORLD has got it all wrong, that psychedelics are a natural part of life and that they have a purpose etc etc.

I tried to write this shit myself but nothing I write actually sounds right. I think somebody else would do a better job of explaining it then I can. I just want my fucktard of a father to get even a hint of understanding as to what im all about etc.

Thanks for any feedback you can offer

cheers

-CS

[nabraxas]

you can never explain it, so let it go.

ask yourself why is it important to you that he 'gets it'--do you think you could possibly have a better relationship if he took ayawhatsit?

do you want that?

i'd say the only way your gonna get him to take it--which is the only real way ov understanding it-- is the same way you get anyone to take a drug like lsd for the first time. emotional blackmail :D

tell him all the reasons you think your relationship would be strengthened & deepened if he just tried it once

"thou shalt not live on bread alone"--ie: you need to "feed your head"

& that was a pretty gay question CS.

[ 20. January 2005, 04:37: Message edited by: nabraxas ]

[Jack]

Hey CS I have a New scientist article that he may benefit from reading, i can photocopy it and send it to you, or scan it whatever u prefer, just let me know.

[teonanacatl]

my dad is a alcoholic and everytime i look at him i almost tell him to come with me and i will fix him, i am sure that something like magic mushrooms of ayahuasca will show him the beauty he is missing, he knows i like poisenous plants and hallucinogenic plants, he has helped me do some research through his old books. my mum on the other hand is a drug hater like u say cs, ive given her studys form maps on the treatment of alcoholism using psychedelics and shes reads them and says well maybe we should show my dads doctor. how should u explain it, thats wat i want to know????

[2b]

LSD-25 was a ligitimate pharmacuetical used for treating all sorts of disorders up until 65-66 in the US. It showed promisssing signs in treating alcaholism and was being tested as a treatment for a range of disorders . In four Canadian studies , for example , seventy -two percent of the alcholics treated either remained abstinet (over fifty per cent of the total number treated ) or reduced their alcoholic consumption throughout the post-session assesment period of about one year.Members of control groups (used in two of the studies) , treated identically but with out psychedelics , showed similar improvment in only twenty-three per cent of cases.These results were achieved in most instances with a single drug session: and the subjects , as in other , similar studies , frequently attributed their improvement to increased self-awareness , self acceptence , reeligious feeling , and reorientation of values. Dosages generally ranged from 200 to 1,500(!!!) micrograms of LSD-25.

Jensen ,S" A Treatment Program for Alcoholics in a Mental Hospital " ibid.., 23:315-320,

1962.

NB:The abstinence rate claimed by Alcoholics Anonymous is fiftenn to twenty percent.

The regulators had trouble deciding who should have access to this product as the psychedelic movement was starting to take it in their own direction so thet just caned the whole thing.

Dr. A. Hoffer, director of psychiatric research at University Hospital, Saskattoon.

I realise both these quote are old (60's) but legitimate research was stopped at this time and i don't know of new studies ?

Now all you have to do is convince your dad your an alcaholic !! Imagine that wouldn't be hard , and your home free !

[rkundalini]

heh cs and all this time I thought your hobby was "getting fucked up"

seriously if you want to try & your father respects authority figures, that recent new scientist article is probably a very good start. Of course it's not completely accurate or in depth but the problem with all the really good texts is they're so far from anything he's experience before, he'll just dismiss it as druggy/hippy bullshit.

You might also trawl the MAPS site & MAPS newsletters,most of their stuff has a ring of "scientific authority" to it without being written in inpeetrable scientific jargon.

If he likes to read at all, Wade Davis' book One River might also be a good one... it's mainly about Shultes and Tim Plowman, and also about the author, all three of whom despite having an insatiable curiosity for the psychedelics and other psychoactives, also strongly espouses some of the values it sounds like your dad supports, i.e. being hard-working, respectful, educated, etc. It's mainly not about drugs but more about adventure in S. America so if you pitch it that way he might bite.

finally get him to try some MDMA with you.

[ 20. January 2005, 09:30: Message edited by: rkundalini ]

[ramon]

I would work on showing him how arbitrary the term drug is.

if you want to get down to it every thing we consume appart from water is a drug in some form.

food changes the levels of our neurotransmitters so that when you eat carbohydrates that has some similarities to taking ectasy or mushrooms and protein increase dopamine so it could be said to be have similarites with cocaine or amphetamines.

[simon_marklar]

try something like this to get ya money back:

"Dad, you say that you gave me the money before i went up north and took drugs.

If you had of said that you gave me the money when I was on drugs, I might believe you when you say that I must of forgotten it. But you say that you gave me the money I was not on drugs, when my mind was functioning normally, and that includes all memory functions. And I know that you didnt give it too me, because i dont remember it happening. Especially as the money for that particular trip came from my ass selling adventures in sydney.

you can be a cunt and not pay me back if you like, i dont care, but you will of ripped off your own son, based on fear and mis-information spread by people with a vested intrest in turning father against son in a so-called drug war.

*wipes tear from eye*

[Salviador]

The presentation is important too, in fact take a note from this site for the way to approach your father

http://www.drugs.health.gov.au/families/10ways.htm

Ie choose a moment when you both have time, dont see it as you convincing him to use drugs, but rather understanding why he doesnt use it. From here it might be helpful to address his fears or misnomers be it with scientific articles or common sense facts.

Much like the jehovas witnesses we must plant the seeds of doubt, this may take a while, but dont be all like i told you so, that will just make people defensive

[Chemical Shaman]

Nabraxas:ask yourself why is it important to you that he 'gets it'--do you think you could possibly have a better relationship if he took ayawhatsit?

Basically I don't think my dad has many years left. Maybe 10 years maximum if he is lucky. We don't really have any sort of relationship at the moment. I spend time with him roughly twice a year. Anyways the main reason I want him to do ayahuasca is that he is going to die a very UNHAPPY man, angry at a world that he thinks screwed him over, angry at my mum, just really angry. He's got a really shitty life, he's pretty much a full blown alcoholic, he couldn't be any unhappier.

Now i've spent most of my life hating him, but I try to understand where he's coming from and I see why he is the way he is. I just want him to be able to see this. My dad has been holding grudges dating back like 40-50 years, there is not going to be any chance of anything remotely close to happiness until he learns to let go of this shit, so I guess really what i want to do is help him.

Nabraxas:& that was a pretty gay question CS.

Hahaha,no shit. Even as im writing it im like "man this is a fucken gay question , bah ass, titties, ass and titties, ass ass titties titties ass and titties. Your mum.

RKundalini:seriously if you want to try & your father respects authority figures, that recent new scientist article is probably a very good start. Of course it's not completely accurate or in depth but the problem with all the really good texts is they're so far from anything he's experience before, he'll just dismiss it as druggy/hippy bullshit.

Is this the one from November New Scientist that you are talking about? i think I have that somewhere.

simon_marklar:you can be a cunt and not pay me back if you like, i dont care, but you will of ripped off your own son, based on fear and mis-information spread by people with a vested intrest in turning father against son in a so-called drug war.

Im definately going to get my money back, despite whether or not he thinks he owes it to me. I could just leave it at that, but I want him to know that he really does owe it to me. I think i'd almost rahter him keep the money than have hime pay me the money thinking that he doesn't owe it to me, but fuck it. It's my fucken money.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Im going to write this email out today, I suspect it will most likely fall on deaf ears, but it's worth a shot.

-Chemical Shaman

[gerbil]

ah it's a tricky one CS, it's like trying to change the drug laws to harm minimisation and proper education, it just falls on deaf ears most of the time and all you get in return are pointless uneducated arguments. Take MDMA hype for example, take 'ecstacy' and your a filthy drug user, a no hoper. (heh look at the shulgins!!)

My suggestion is to show him and teach him about cultures who use plant sacrements, south american cultures definately are a good option, showing how hard working they are and how they incorporate hallucinogenic plants into their life for strong benefit. For example using ayahuasca to make group decisions about the community in regards to hunting etc. If these plants didn't work then jungle tribes wouldn't have been using them for thousands of years. Watched the piers gibbon film 'jungle trip' this morning, they were using frog venom as a teacher to help them hunt.

Anyway best of luck with it, it's very comforting seeing how you want to help your father. That doesn't sound like the act a low life (a current affair style) drug addict to me

[mescalito]

A bit late but here goes:

CS your dad sounds like mine except he's a workaholic!

I've tried to 'help' him through understanding my viewpoint for years to no avail.He had 5 bypasses 10 years ago and refuses to go for any more So I 'paid' him, thanked him for carrying me this far...and got off his back.

Although we haven't spoken for a few years now I've realised there was no point in trying to change him as much as it has always been useless for him to try to change me.

My advice-forget about the money-it can only make things worse.

[rkundalini]

yeah that's the one (ns)

good luck

[RonnySimulacrum]

Try geting your dad to Read 'Tihkal' :D :D :D

[waterdragon]

post his email addy on this site and the good folks here will bombard him with edjakational bits. or just sneak up on the fucker and jab in the neck with some keta and then give yourself a hit in the thigh and catch up with him in your space.

[Torsten]

CS, you need to cast wider than the he said / she said concept of how drugs are assessed in western culture. For ever article that shows pot is good there is one or 10 that show it is bad. Doesn't matter who is right cos both sides are bound to have an agenda.

But if you look at the deep cultural significance of psychedelics in traditional cultures you soon find that they are the glue that holds them together. ie, in traditional cultures drugs are pretty much viewed the opposite to the way we view them.

So tell him about ayahuasca in the amazon and peyote in america and see what arguments he has against that. From these arguments you will see just where he stands and how much or little he understands.

Once he has accepted traditional use as a good thing, this is when you start drawing parallels to such use in western society.

Does he smoke and drink? cos there are some interesting ways to approach it from that angle.

But even if you do 'convince' him, don't expect it to last forever. Most will fall back into the mould a few years later.

[macro]

Keep it positive, try not to fall into an "I'm right, you're wrong" argument, and keep it at a level he'll be able to relate with. Drugs being positive for the whole world is going to be a much bigger leap, than how drugs have been beneficial in your life. Good luck

[jalien]

i ceased contact with my father a few years ago

its been very painful but probably the right decision for me considering what an evil monkey he has been

much like Chemical Shazzerwhackles' father only cruely, torturously abusive

its so startling this gap between generations

most baby boomers i know have been rugby racing & beer types

but my generation, genX is so different, almost like a different species - much more open to a sane approach to drugs, though not without guilt

and the younger generation seem even smarter and almost free of the burden of bullshit ideology that has long plagued human history

you may be aware of great leaps in lifespan and health to come out of the 20th century

but did you know that that IQ has been increasing by up to 20 points per generation?

this is known as the Flynn Effect

to me this is the most remarkable discovery of the social sciences, since 20 points is a hell of a lot

so there we have it, our parents (at least mine) are dumb drunken monkeys, while we are as smart as chimps

kosmc.net

[psybernaut]

Jack:

Hey CS I have a New scientist article that he may benefit from reading, i can photocopy it and send it to you, or scan it whatever u prefer, just let me know.

Hey Jack, is this the article you're talking about? (The Intoxication Instinct, or Getting High Is Only Human)

[Chemical Shaman]

Jalien: Interesting what you write about intelligence increasing every generation. Im only in my mid twenties but i already know that I have far surpassed him as far as intelligence goes, and he is an extremely educated man (masters in politics etc).

Anyway, I wrote the email yesterday and I actually regret doing it now. I should have just let it be. Because I didn't put a lot of thought into it I think I just come off as some ranting druggie. There was no real structure to what I was saying and it was kind of all over the place, then I threw in a link to maps and pasted the New Scientist article. Bah, oh well, still no reply.

Im really starting to not care anymore, I want to help my dad because I see what a complete world of shit he is in but I think it might be a case of him not wanting help. He's content blaming the rest of the world for his problems.

ah well.

-CS

[rkundalini]

I don't know, the baby boomers didn't seem so stupid in the 60s.

I think babies come into this world blazing with a capacity to learn. And from day 1 they are also bombarded with societal programming designed to reduce their ability for independent thought. A bit like throwing a ball up in the air, it goes up for a while but eventually gravity will drag it down. Some time between 12 and 40 years of age most people reach the peak of their trajectory and it's downhill into ignorant selfish bliss from there on.

A small proportion of people are able to fend off gravity though.

In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand

At the mongrel dogs who teach

Fearing not that I'd become my enemy

In the instant that I preach

My pathway led by confusion boats

Mutiny from stern to bow.

Ah, but I was so much older then,

I'm younger than that now.

Yes, my guard stood hard when abstract threats

Too noble to neglect

Deceived me into thinking

I had something to protect

Good and bad, I define these terms

Quite clear, no doubt, somehow.

Ah, but I was so much older then,

I'm younger than that now.

(Bob Dylan -- My Back Pages)

[woof woof woof]

drive him out in the desert with some camping gear & a bag of drugs.

[planthelper]

your dad will never go your way,

pitty because as a very smart man he could as you said greatly benefit from it.

maybe bribe his dentist, and let him have a high dose of laughing gas,

like this no law is broken, and he could still have a strong euphoric experiance.

your father is afraid of all those things,

because the media portrays drugs as something bad and dangerous.

only us few know it's the other way round, a bit of ayahuasca or dmt or even thc can reduce alcoholism.

or sally is good against depression,

take sceletium instead of prozac and so on.

your dad doesn't have to join you, taking ketamin and creating paralell universes,

it's not his JOB to do this, whilst it definately is your calling, to do those things...

teaching an old dog new tricks is difficult, but i think if, he would be at a party at his honour and all people drink aya and talk super positive about it, your dad might try it.

[reptyle]

talk to him about your lifestyle, dont start off talking about drugs, start by explaining your outlook on life, your morals, your situation, once he understands that you can explain to him how drugs have helped you on that path towards fulfilment. relate your experince to him and then drop some acid in his beer.

[coin]

cs, it really sounds like there are more important issues at hand than re-educating your dad about psychedelics. maybe this sort of discussion & re-evaluation could come later, but i think for the time being, you really need to try to connect with him on an emotional level, rather than rationale/reasnoning.

it seems a bit like you're unhappy with the way you think your dad sees you, as having the preconceived values the label "drug user" lends to the whole of your personality ..

i'll get back to that in a sec

as far as your dad taking ayahuasca, or something similar..there are just far too many ways i could see this going wrong, if it could happen at all. without some sort of ritual & an experienced guide, this might just do some damage. i realise that no one is really 'ready' for feeling like they are dying, their world is falling apart, and this is often what lifts the veil, but that's not to mention vomitting, diarrhoea, the psychic purging/catharsis of 40 years of emotional backlog, and the sudden upheaval & processing of all the things his deeper levels of consciousness have been taking in while he's been dumbing down the outer mind's cognition with booze for however many years, so he doesn't have to deal with it all...i just wonder if you'd be prepared for that responsibility, and that it should be guided in a particular & careful way ?

there must be some way that you can connect with him..some sort of emotional soft-spot, where he just wants his inner voice heard..even if it is some grudge from decades ago. i don't know how strong-willed & stern he is, but if he has a lot of ego defences built up, then he's probably running a lot of his feelings through some sort of filter about how he's 'supposed' to speak & behave outwardly, having deeply ingrained ideals about who he's supposed to be, and there are certain wounds & hurts he will only admit to himself, even if only fleetingly. if you can perceive these & reflect them to him with the gift of reassurance of understanding, non-judgment and empathy, perhaps you may start to hear him speak in a manner you've rarely heard/seen before..i guess part of what i'm trying to say is, try to learn something new about your dad. there's probably a lot you don't know.

it's more than likely it will be a concession, and emotionally uncomfortable for yourself.

if no physical contact or affection exists between you, it's probably important to start building on that, even if it's only a warm-hearted handshake & a slap on the shoulder

after some sort of open dialogue & a commitment to a better, more open & supportive, constructive relationship is established (even an agreement without so many words), i would think that maybe mdma is more suitable, also. you'd probably have to consider things like that he'd want a relatively conservative dose..he's probably not into feeling 'good' but is at the stage where he just wants to not feel bad.. he'd also probably feel uncomfortable taking pills, so present it to him as liquid form, etc.. and a mutually comfortable, but neutral (ie, no family house/history etc) location for setting

i could be way off base..sorry if it sounds gay..just some humble first impressions

[ 21. January 2005, 13:08: Message edited by: coin ]