Evolution or creation ?

[2b]

It seems madness what is going on in the US with this topic , and i have definate opinions , but to be fair i would like to get an idea of public opinion here in Oz. So tell us what you believe was Darwin right or was it all created in 7 days ?

[mesq]

Both are outdated

[occidentalis]

2benubee:

I to be fair i would like to get an idea of public opinion here in Oz

So you think this forum will give you a fair idea of public opinion in Australia?

ROFL :D

[Fenris]

With Australia being populated by a Godless bunch of heathens. (This is a good thing if you compare it to religious fundamentalism)

Biblical fiction and the creation myth are seen as just that, myth and fiction.

Probably a more accurate and up to date theory would be the punctuated equilibrium theory of evolution. The wonderfull thing about theories is that they are based on empirical data and if a better theory emerges then that is adopted generally in a progressive manner.

As opposed to religious fundamentalism which seems to be quite regressive and unable to change.

I believe religion should be practiced quietly and without the aid of politics.

33% of the world is Christian. Either 67% of the world is wrong or, 100% could be used as a wonderful substrate for growing mushrooms.

[Rev]

i say 'god' was created by evolution (by us) not the other way around

any religion coming from a book is so obviously false

[ 22. November 2004, 23:36: Message edited by: reville ]

[Auxin]

Boy that was a easy question for me. My religion says the origin of life and its change over time is the domain of science rather than religion, lol

Has anyone read the creationist anti-evolution flyers? I've read dozens and the Vast! majority of the time they are trying to disprove evolution they never mention evolution (and when they do a keen 6 year old could see through the BS).

I dont think creationist stances are always a result of self-imposed delusion or intellectual laziness, a fair number of smart folks beleive in that 'theory'.... but not I.

[2b]

Creach, I'm sure the sample group here is very one sided (just like talk back radio)so no i'm sure this will not provide an accurate representation of Australian public opinion.Having said that what i wanted to draw attention to was the current debate in some parts of the US to have creation included in science classes. In my opinion creation belongs in humanities classes not science.With the rise and rise of the fundamentalist christian right in the US , it is inevetable that it will soon appear here in Oz. The rise of the Family first party on the last election is just the thin edge of the wedge, trust me it's comming and if we are not prepared they will have a lot of power in a short amount of time. I suppose the reason for the poll (apart from playing devils advocate )was to start dialoge on the subject , get people thinking and talking ,and for what it's worth i think it's working. I was not trying to exclude those that don't have an opinion on either but trying to draw attention to what is going on in the US and possibly here.The seperation of religion and state is the next thing to consider , George W is wares his heart on his sleve but what about our PM ? I think i have a recolation that his wife is a born again ? :confused:

[Flip]

As a unfortunate american here on these forums

I'm constantly bewildered by the sheer audacity being shown

by the religious extremists.

to to mention the extent that they've penetrated into the society.

Bush and his team have forwarded hundred of MILLIONS to christian churches

and recruitment programs under the guise of social programs.

Today I've just learned that the american schoolbooks in some

states will stop teaching Evolution but also promote creationism?!?

and abstinence in order to get continued

federal funding.

sad to say it's working... look at this "kid?"

Here's a example...

I see a systematic process in action here over 20 years in the making.

One of the local schoolboards is composed almost entirely of christians

that rallied their church members in order to get positions!

they're attacking on all front and have been for awhile

[monkeydance]

the 2 great competing religious belief systems of our time science vs faith.

they arnt that dissimiliar.

still looking, for a theory of everything.

[Chemical Shaman]

Of course god made the world, I mean it's right there in black and white in the FREAKIN BIBLE PERCHINKY!!!

It clearly says that god made the heavens and the earth in 6 days and then on the seventh day he rested, which is why we go to church on the sunday. I assume by the time he was done with making the whole universe and everything it was probably sunday by then.

Anyways what I don't get is this, God (you know the dude with the beard and the robes and shit) starts making the universe, and obviously the only IMPORTANT parts of the universe are heaven and earth, everything else is just redundant. So what I want to know is why did he make the universe so fucking big!!!! I mean this place is huge!!! Huge-er then even our most powerful telescopes can even see to! So im thinking, seeing as the heavens and the earth are the only important things going on, why not just make those, fuck I mean you could even make the solar system, and then the milky way galaxy just for good looks etc.

By my calculations if he made the whole universe in 6 days then he could have made earth, and the heavens and then the solar system and the galaxy ALL IN ONE DAY!!!! Then he would have SIX DAYS TO REST and we would go to church 6 DAYS OUT OF SEVEN TO "WORSHIP" HIM INSTEAD OF JUST ONE!!

I mean the attention he put into making like Saturn and Uranus is ASTOUNDING!! Have you seen the moons on those places?? Who the fuck is ever going to visit the moon of uranus for fucks sake!! Seems like a lot of time was wasted in creating this REDUNDANT UNIVERSE when he could have better spent his time arm wrestling with Satan or fingering Marys cunt or some shit.

Another thing I don't get is like, okay he made the whole lot in 6 days right, well isn't a day the measurement of time it takes to revolve OUR GREAT PLANET THE ONLY IMPORTANT PLANET IN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE around the sun?

So when he's out there making the universe what's his fucking reference point when there's billions of suns surrounding him? It would be as confusing as fuck and im really starting to have some doubts here that my lord and saviour may perhaps not have really made this whole place in 6 days and maybe could even have been a little bit drunk or some shit as he seems to have made BILLIONS OF MILES OF UNIVERSE that we're never even going to have a use for?? Why do that god?!!Huhh!! HuuuuHHHH!!!

-Chemical Shaman

[monkeydance]

i reckon when he realised what he done he had to keep creating to run away far enough. my2c

[narayan]

I totally agree with reville about god being created by man. Darwins evolution theory is a good simple model of what occurs in nature but I doubt it is the answer to the question of why we are here.

[nabraxas]

quoted from another site, this guy puts it shorter & sweeter than i could

"How about the third theory... that the Annaki (highly developed aliens from the planet Nibiru) experimented with the dna from the early hominids, mixing it with their own dna. The original people of the earth... the true descendants came from Africa. The dna experiment produced a new two-legged called the human. They were originally produced for slave labour. The Annuki eventually left, the Earth, leaving only a few to oversee the experiment. These few were of the pharoahs in Egypt. They were aware of the 'great mysteries' and had powers way beyond those of the humans. They had mystery schools where only adepts were chosen to know the 'mystery'. Over time these remaining Annuki died off leaving the knowledge in the hands of humans who abused the knowledge. To cut a long story short, over time these mystery schools became the cult of the freemasons. It's more complicated but there you go."

[Andrew]

I dont think anyone ever stated that one of

gods days was 24 hours(I could be wrong).What if one god day equalled a million years and everything was created very slowly,kinda like evolution.

[2b]

For what it 's worth i checked the results, so far and the Darwinists' have 22 love , so were are all the creationists' ?

[strangebrew]

Come now, you don't really expect to find rightious christian soldiers wasting their precious time on evil, satan worshipping sites like this one!

They're surfing for kiddy-porn instead.

[2b]

Touche' !!

[occidentalis]

I couldn't think of anything funny to put in it, but check this out:

http://www.churchsigngenerator.com/

Weird. Says I can't post from external URLs. Anyway have a look, it's funny.

[ 24. November 2004, 11:50: Message edited by: creach ]

[Chemical Shaman]

[ 24. November 2004, 14:12: Message edited by: Chemical Shaman ]

[2b]

Hope there is a moderator around here or this could get out of hand !!

:D :D

[mescalito]

Fuck man!!

Didn't you know that CS IS GOD??That's right he's also administrator,web master and forum moderator RIGHT HERE and also runs this great site

Seriously though *ahherm*, I agree with Mushroom that both 'ideals' are just plain outdated.The age of Jesus/fisher(of)man/Pisces is over and is now giving way to the age of Aquarius which for alternative thinkers is good news.I also agree with Rev on both accounts especially since I consider any religion as the stagnation of the truth..kind of like a dummy for toddlers.

On one hand we have the evolutionist theory that holds 'proof' and on the other the creationist based on unproven 'fables'.It's just a two-way balancing act with scientists being the intermediaries in the middle looking for an easy to swallow version of the truth for the masses until we all get it right LOL.I'm sure anyone's gnome could probably disprove both on a level playing ground

[Dubius]

mescalito:

Fuck man!!

Didn't you know that CS IS GOD??That's right he's also administrator,web master and forum moderator RIGHT HERE and also runs   this great site

Seriously though *ahherm*, I agree with Mushroom that both 'ideals' are just plain outdated.The age of Jesus/fisher(of)man/Pisces is over and is now giving way to the age of Aquarius which for alternative thinkers is good news.I also agree with Rev on both accounts especially since I consider any religion as the stagnation of the truth..kind of like a dummy for toddlers.

On one hand we have the evolutionist theory that holds 'proof' and on the other the creationist based on unproven 'fables'.It's just a two-way balancing act with scientists being the intermediaries in the middle looking for an easy to swallow version of the truth for the masses until we all get it right LOL.I'm sure anyone's gnome could probably disprove both on a level playing ground      

[Dubius]

"I am close to Plato, but even closer to truth." By some Greek guy starting with T and ending in S.

[Rev]

The true nature of the cosmos is so unbelieveable complex, dynamic, twisted,and unfathomable and yet simultaneously existing as an oceanic and holistic singularity

The world we make is so banal and fleeting by comparison and this is what most of us occupy ourselves with

As we peel back the layers of existence like an onion its going to get stranger and stranger, such that we will lose all our subjective reference points and if you journey too far fro there then youre faced not only with what you find but also having to resolve to yourself why you went looking and what to do about it.

we are going to need our wits about us to keep our minds open to whats really happenning and yet rational enough not to drag back up our corrupted superstitions (cultural amulets as mental barriers to our fears).

whats going on in this battle over faith vs science is nothing short of the battle of all battles for the minds of humanity.

A friend brought up the often used phrase - the end of history

Its really about a situation breaching philosophical tolerances leading to a confrontation.

Those in science know so much but have failed to translate it into a unifying theory that makes sense of teh universe

Those in faith hav ereached the tolerances of dissatisfaction and are advocating the end of the experiment. better they think to stick our heads back in the sand with fairy tales that dont make sense buts satisfy our thirts for a sense of meaning, than the chase extravagant claims that make no more sense and leave us empty and unfulfilled as to why?

from here we go two ways. Either we accept faith again, close our minds on consciousness and end the experiment of universal enlightenmnet

or we push on harder and further to the next layer

of understanding where it will unify. Bits filter through everyday and year by year

'intelligent' systems from simple components, the self organising nature of the cosmos, ever more complexities and hidden quirks in the history of life. Beauty, meaning, immortality by association yet all without an anthropomorphised god. The truth of consciousness is turning out to be so much more amazing than any book caould hope to describe

Science pushes on but to be understood it fits within the parameters of our understanding of our place in the universe.

Clearly the extreme limits of how even the most modern thinkers see themselves and their structure of reality are beyond tolerable limits in the face of what scientific enquiry is telling us

So the bubble is at breaking point hence so much tension. Faith cant accept science eroding its comfortable boundaries and absolutes and Science cant tolerate, or allow, itself to reconcile with any inherent consciousness or higher purpose permeating the cosmos in fear of compromising objectivity.

Its going to burst soon and with it will come unifying concepts that will reconcile those searcghing for objectivity and those searching for meaning.

A paradigm shift that will rock our notions of who,where and why we are what we are in the cosmos.

Thats among the thinkers, or more accurately those who keep their childlike receptivity to inspiration alive regardless of education

I think many here have seen that other side already, seen it and come back being unable to bring it with us as we lack the vocabulary, and those key concept that bring it into place in a way that makes it clear as day and has the puzzles resolved

Like its on the tip of the tongue....

100mg NN .....break the veil, literally the Hymen of illusion in your mind and freefall back into the truth.

[ 28. November 2004, 21:30: Message edited by: reville ]

[Torsten]

moderating CS is like telling a creationist to evolve - it's futile