New In Ground Plants - Suggestions/Insights

[magical9]

Alright im working on putting the best of my best cactus in ground. Starting first with my Colossus, SS02, Eileen, BBG, peruvianus(various). What is the most ideal spacing and depth for in ground planting? My goal is to grow plants big enough to take 12-18" cuttings from every season(or when they grow to that size....). Id like to get them packed in tight as possible while still allowing healthy fat growth. Any suggestions? So far ive got one of five garden beds dug and im not sure if its even sufficiently dug yet. Right now its 4' x 2' x 1.5' Deep. I was hoping to plant 1 cutting per square foot since ill be harvesting tips/arms frequently so assuming they arent so close that they grow into eachother.. i would think id be good? I live in Arizona.. do you think it would be beneficial to mix in the dirt im digging up into my cactus mix? How many plants would you experienced in ground growers(*cough*zelly*cough*mutant) plant for my 5 beds at 4x2x??deep?

[MrDoRight]

Yesterday I planted my Trichos about 18 inches apart inside what used too be a rose bush plot, I dug about 2 feet deep and removed all the rocks and clay dirt then replaced the inside with perlite , pumice , coco coir , peat moss, Shultz cactus soil.

Imo I would only plant 2 cactus per plot . You may be able to do 3 but I'm Also interested too know what other experienced growers have too say about this. Looks nice magical9

[magical9]

Thank you for the quick reply. i cant wait to see what others say. Question. why only 2 or 3 per plot? Assuming i harvested the growth continually wouldnt I be able to get away with having them planted pretty close? For example i have 3 pedros in a 7 gallon pot planted 3"-4" apart and all have pups growing and are not interfering with eachother. but maybe im not understanding another aspect of spacing...

[hostilis]

Just wait a couple years and those three in the pot will be smashing up against each other. Unless you harvest the pups everytime they get to a certain size. Pluss you have to remember the root systems. They take up space and even when you're harvesting the pups the roots get bigger. I'm not really sure how much it matters though if the roots are growing in the same space.

[zelly]

magical, could you please post up some pics of your soil conditions where you plan your beds to be? Is it as rock hard as it looks?

[magical9]

magical, could you please post up some pics of your soil conditions where you plan your beds to be? Is it as rock hard as it looks?

Its pretty hard i think. I spray it down and let it soak for a few hours before i dig. My plan was to use 0.5 Sand : 0.5 Decomposed Granite : 1.0 Cactus mix. Ill post some pics up later when i get home. When ever i see your pics the plants look like they are super close together yet not really touching..is that correct?

Just wait a couple years and those three in the pot will be smashing up against each other. Unless you harvest the pups everytime they get to a certain size. Pluss you have to remember the root systems. They take up space and even when you're harvesting the pups the roots get bigger. I'm not really sure how much it matters though if the roots are growing in the same space.

this is exactly my point. id be harvesting the tips pretty often 12-18" cuttings. So these in ground plants would be my mother plants i just take cuttings from when they get to size.

[woof woof woof]

when I put cacti in pots I usually make the lower layers in the pot more organic with regular potting mixed with the local dirt.

the upper layers that support the cactus and thicker roots I make less organic.

and then top it off with gravely layer (no organic stuff)

the reason I do it this way is because when we get tropical downpours I do not want the base of the cactus to stay in a soggy/wet medium that can support microbial growth and maybe induce bacterial or fungal rot. I want the base of the cactus to dry and let water pass through asap, and be a little more airy than the rest. The lower roots can handle the nutrient rich organic soil much better, and they will grow a bit better too.

As I do not know the AZ weather that well, I think it is usually much different than the local tropical humidity. (actually, we are more semi arid, but we do get our tropical downpours from time to time.

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

from what i gather you need to be a terbo hero to take the heat in AZ !!

- or a cactus....

Awesome thread this is gna be I can tell already.. , look forward to seeing how the plant-out pans out

espesh the colossus and what speed growth ..... x] *excited !

[magical9]

Alright i got bed #2 dug. a little deeper this time, close to 2ft. Als attached are pics of the first candidates to go in ground. Also i have pics of the dirt im working with for you zelly.

- Colossus w/ pups!

- SS02

- Eileen

- Bob Smoley Bridgesii

Edited July 11, 2014 by magical9

[bullit]

looks like it might hold water like a dam?

[hostilis]

That's what I was thinking. Did you try putting water on it first to see what happens?

[zelly]

dude you already got killer soil for trichs.

fill in those holes with the dirt you dug out of them, mixed in with the potting soil you got your plants in already.

think about your holes fo a minute. do you seriously believe the cacti roots are going to remain entirely within the 2x4 area you dug out? hell no, they're going to grow wherever theres even a possibility of moisture & nutrients. the 2x4 holes are a huge waste of time & effort, imho.

PLEASE forget about the sand and decomposed granite. I have some decomposed granite and when it gets wet, it dries rock hard.

1) fill them holes in

2) take your shovel and spade the earth, turn the soil over, every square foot, from the block wall to the furthest edge of your planting area. Immediately prior to that though, feel free to spread a bag or two of time release ferts on top of the soon to be spaded garden.

3) want super fast growth? paint the block wall white, stucco & masonary paint from the depo works reeeal well.

4) ok, you're ready to plant. plant the first row 10-12" off the block wall, the whole length of your garden. 12" center to center is a good number, but as things mature over time, 48" centers will even seem too close. every time you cut the cactus or it snaps on its own accord, a minimum of a single new pup appears. far too often though its multiple pups, and they all need room to grow...

I dig a hole slightly larger than the root ball, toss the plant in, toss in some time release ferts, then back fill the hole with the same dirt, then water them up good.

When ever i see your pics the plants look like they are super close together yet not really touching..is that correct?

when i first planted the garden, i thought there was plenty of room between the plants. then they grew from pups & kids to obnoxiously chubby adults. some want to reach for the sky & others want to pup like crazy, so its really a crap shoot any way you go.

after your plants are in the ground, take some good pictures & print them out on paper, then label the pictured plants. update your pics as you add plants. what good is a non destructible metal tag identifying a particular plant that is so impossible to read or see due to the grossly overgrown stems surrounding it? all them plant id labels mean diddely squat if you cant read them.

theres something going on though between these plants. i am 100% convinced plants are a sentient life form capable of communication. my scop has been growing a new pup for a couple months now. I initially swore up & down it was going to grow directly into the mature spines on a peruvianus, and was convinced I would have to cut one plant or the other. in no time the tip of the scop pup was just a few mm away from seriously impacting long mature spines on the peru, but each day i went out to check on the progress, it was like the spines moved out of the way of the growing tip. not once has a peru spine broke the skin on the scop pup, or even came close for that matter.

so do they touch each other? yeah, but more importantly, it seems they accommodate each other.....

[hostilis]

It's recently been found that plants communicate with each other via clicking noises they make in their roots. Here are some articles on the subject.

http://io9.com/5919973/plants-communicate-with-each-other-by-using-clicking-sounds

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/07/plants-talk-to-each-other-nanoscale-sound-waves-grow_n_3229021.html

http://www.biomedcentral.com/imedia/1756757526887438_article.pdf?random=50642

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130507-talking-chili-plant-communication-science/

These findings don't really suggest that they can say, "Hey, I'm growing a branch towards you, you better drop your spines" but it says to me that it's possible plants are capable of complex communication. There have also been recent findings that suggest plants have memory/learning (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00442-013-2873-7) and decision making capabilities http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24561600 I personally believe that all plants are conscious beings and not just stupid clumps of cells that just grow.

Edited July 11, 2014 by hostilis

[bullit]

i wouldnt plant in that . even with a mix of soil to fill . where i live in summer that would be a bog hole after all the rain we get ..

that hole look still looks like a mini dam ....

zelly quote <> I have some decomposed granite and when it gets wet, it dries rock hard.

this shit looks way worst

Edited July 11, 2014 by bullit

[2XB]

I thought trichs would like this style. Shallow permeable layer on top of rock, kinda like the side of a mountain? Trich roots tend to grow horizontally don't they???

[bullit]

I thought trichs would like this style. Shallow permeable layer on top of rock, kinda like the side of a mountain? Trich roots tend to grow horizontally don't they???

yeah on side of a mountain .. if u u dig a hole staight in into rockin clay and it rains the water will sit fot along time this will cause loads of problems.. dont know with cacti but if i grew a plant in that they would most likly die of phtophtha..

but u know me dont know shit .. lol

Edited July 11, 2014 by bullit

[magical9]

dude you already got killer soil for trichs.

fill in those holes with the dirt you dug out of them, mixed in with the potting soil you got your plants in already.

think about your holes fo a minute. do you seriously believe the cacti roots are going to remain entirely within the 2x4 area you dug out? hell no, they're going to grow wherever theres even a possibility of moisture & nutrients. the 2x4 holes are a huge waste of time & effort, imho.

PLEASE forget about the sand and decomposed granite. I have some decomposed granite and when it gets wet, it dries rock hard.

1) fill them holes in

2) take your shovel and spade the earth, turn the soil over, every square foot, from the block wall to the furthest edge of your planting area. Immediately prior to that though, feel free to spread a bag or two of time release ferts on top of the soon to be spaded garden.

3) want super fast growth? paint the block wall white, stucco & masonary paint from the depo works reeeal well.

4) ok, you're ready to plant. plant the first row 10-12" off the block wall, the whole length of your garden. 12" center to center is a good number, but as things mature over time, 48" centers will even seem too close. every time you cut the cactus or it snaps on its own accord, a minimum of a single new pup appears. far too often though its multiple pups, and they all need room to grow...

I dig a hole slightly larger than the root ball, toss the plant in, toss in some time release ferts, then back fill the hole with the same dirt, then water them up good.

when i first planted the garden, i thought there was plenty of room between the plants. then they grew from pups & kids to obnoxiously chubby adults. some want to reach for the sky & others want to pup like crazy, so its really a crap shoot any way you go.

after your plants are in the ground, take some good pictures & print them out on paper, then label the pictured plants. update your pics as you add plants. what good is a non destructible metal tag identifying a particular plant that is so impossible to read or see due to the grossly overgrown stems surrounding it? all them plant id labels mean diddely squat if you cant read them.

theres something going on though between these plants. i am 100% convinced plants are a sentient life form capable of communication. my scop has been growing a new pup for a couple months now. I initially swore up & down it was going to grow directly into the mature spines on a peruvianus, and was convinced I would have to cut one plant or the other. in no time the tip of the scop pup was just a few mm away from seriously impacting long mature spines on the peru, but each day i went out to check on the progress, it was like the spines moved out of the way of the growing tip. not once has a peru spine broke the skin on the scop pup, or even came close for that matter.

so do they touch each other? yeah, but more importantly, it seems they accommodate each other.....

wow thank you for the detailed walkthrough! Im curious though, what about my soil in the pictures says "good for trichs". I mainly ask because the ground is pretty hard before i soften it up with water the day before. It does seem to dry out within a few days though. With that being said, do you think the fact that it is pretty hard (no rocks though) when fully dry would still work fine? Granted if i mix in this cactus soil ive been using(and really like), till up the ground, and keep it watered once or twice a week... it wouldnt fully harden i imagine. Although what about winter time when im not watering or watering very little? Would adding sand into the mix maybe help?

If i could use my local dirt holy crap I would save lots of money on soil heh. Oh those spacing dimensions are exactly what i was looking for zelly thanks.

[franky]

I agree with Zelly re: ammending existing soil. by filling those holes up with a pre constructed mix you are essentially creating a pot within the ground, as the roots will have a very hard time travelling between the two completely different soil mixes.

[magical9]

Making progress. Last night i got about 8 bags of 1cuft cactus mix added into an area of 14' x 2' x 2ish' mixed with local dirt from the originating hole. Need more cactus mix though. I depotted my colossus since its going in ground and its still a cutting with no roots.. and sure enough the buried end is starting to rot! Glad i pulled it up to check. It was in super dry fluffy soil mix. So not sure wtf is the deal but its drying out now. Hopefully i can get it to stop turning to mush and get it planted. So far its just a small portion. If it stops soon then it wont be a problem. Zelly i know you say to leave it alone so thats what im gonna do. i pray to god i dont some how lose this cutting lol.

[hostilis]

I wouldn't leave a rotting section on a cutting there. Whenever a cutting has started rotting for me it's just spread through the whole cutting. Established plants are different though.

[magical9]

Well ive seen before where the cutting started to rot in a corner and then just stopped and rooted fine. But I do have it out of the soil now so it gets better airflow maybe that will help? Ill keep an eye on it and cut it off if it seems to get worse. Ill be so upset if i loose this colossus.

[hostilis]

That would suck for sure. Hope it pulls through.

[magical9]

Pic 1) Group Shot

Pic 2) Bridgesii

Pic 3) Eileen

Pic 4) SS02

Pic 5) Peruvianus "Glaucus"

Pic 6) Berkely Botanical Gardens Peruvianus

Pic 7) Group Shot

Not shown are some newly planted ones on the left side. Pics coming soon.

1) SS04 Chalaensis

2) Lumberjack

3) SS02

4) Altman Pachanoi / Huanucoensis (super rare $275.00 15" plant)

5) Altman Pachanoi / Huanucoensis stumps with pups (Super expensive and rare!)

6) Short Spined Peruvianus (not the altmans variety that is really a pachanoi but instead looks to be a real short spined peru)

Edited July 21, 2014 by magical9

[hostilis]

Can't wait to see those in a couple years. Will be awesome. Once again I'm envious of the ground planting oportunity.

[someone]

I hope you did not pay 275 for that altman pach/huancoensis. That seller just finds cacti at nurseries an slaps on whatever name he likes adds super rare to the title and lists them for ridiculous prices. That is if you purchased them from e bay. There is nothing rare about his listings and they are no where near worth the prices he is asking.