US out of Australian politics

[spiders]

How dare the US attempt to influence Australian politics by threatening the ALP. They have suggested that Simon Crean has demonstrated open anti-american sentiments by stating that he will not support unilateral action against iraq (oops the iraqi people). They have suggested the Crean is 'harming the US-ALP party relations.'

What a joke - AUstralia whould have followed New Zealand years ago and got id of any ties with the imperialist oil state!

George Bush's campaign was funded by Exxon - Afghanistani prime minister Mohammed Khazi only 13 monthes ago was an employee of Exxon!!!

[somnif]

What is interesting is this is seemingly in no

way good for Howard electorally. Anyone who has

followed Howard's maneuvers over the years would

be aware that most anything he does is purely for

electoral reasons - this man is poll driven. For

him to break this in such a drastic way for the

septic yanks just shows the hold they have over us.

The idea of him slinking over next week to get his

next set of instructions off baby Bush is so

humiliating and condescending towards Australians

that I could imagine it being an image that he

never recovered from.

I just hope that the media plays it for everything

it is worth.

Listen to this quote if you want to suck on a bit

of Bush-Howard dualism:

 

quote:

---

 

Mr Owens (US deputy chief of mission in Canberra)

 

was "expressing the view that because Labor has accused John Howard of deceit in relation to

 

deployment of the troops, that that is the same

 

thing as calling President Bush a liar"

 

...

 

To the embarrassment of the US, a report yesterday which was traced back to its Canberra embassy suggested that a formal complaint had been lodged about ALP criticism of Mr Bush, amid US charges that the Opposition was damaging the alliance and fanning "anti-Americanism".

 

---

This is just so fricking outrageous. To call Howard

a liar is to call Bush a liar? To criticize Howard

for deceitfully sending our troops over to a war

which has nothing to do with us is anti-American?

Again, this is just so fricking outrageous.

Everyone should go out and see 'The Quiet American'

for an insight into the US attitude towards foreign

states.

Even more ranting from me in this thread:

http://www.ethnobotany-australia.net/phpBB...=347&highlight=

[ 08. February 2003, 03:33: Message edited by: somnif ]

[Auxin]

Yes, by all means get my gov. out of Australian politics. The US government has continually screwed up BIG TIME. Dont let the game of 'war crimes for fun and profit' become rooted into your country too, there are already enough criminals in the world.

[woof woof woof]

Heh, Your Govs might be screwed up..... mine are too, ....... It's all a big circus and corrupt fairy tale.....

the U.S. are building a base here..... " So F16's , radar planes, can take off an fly (patrol) missions over Colombia.

C O C A I N E

[MrBumpy]

When I watched the story on the news something struck me as weird....the presenter said that the oppositions comments were "straining the ANZUS ties" or something like that, the exact wording isn't important, but what struck me as weird was that they used the ANZUS treaty in the story....it was my understanding that the ANZUS treaty was defunt now because New Zealand wouldn't allow US nuclear submarines into their ports. Was I correct in this is or is it just something I dreamed up in my own little world?

-bumpy

[mesq]

Only the New Zealand side of the treaty is invalid..

[mulch]

we got something to worry about...

u shoulda been out richmond (airbase) way 2 weeks ago...

aussie tryhards.

5 days of intense fa18 manouvre training...

noisy motherf**kers!!!

Crean ain't got no hope.

[mesq]

They might be "Aussie Try hards"

But the Aussie pilot kill ratio is 1:6 versus Americans.

Anyone see the RAAF Brat coming out in me.. LOL

[waterdragon]

U.S out of oz politics? why ruin a tradition of puppeteering that goes back thirty years or more? howard doesn't care about the electoral consequences because there aren't ever going to be any. and mark latham is quickly becoming my new hero - quote "conga line of suckholes" , gotta be happy with that. poor bugger may not realise it yet but his career is over. labour doesn't have the guts to buck the system, already given themselves a back door with their 'u.n approval' philosophy.

[somnif]

 

quote:

---

 

It was my understanding that the ANZUS treaty was defunt...

 

---

quote:

---

 

Only the New Zealand side of the treaty is invalid..

 

---

Australia, New Zealand, United States=="ANZUS"

Since we have got rid of New Zealand from it,

with a touch of Juggling we get:

United States, Australia=="USA"

Now that makes sense, doesn't it.

[gomaos]

howard doesn't care about the electoral consequences because there aren't ever going to be any.

By that do you mean there aren't going to be any more election because Howard will soon proclaim a faschist dictatorship without elections?

or do you mean that australian people are so stupid they're gonna vote for hin anyway?

[woof woof woof]

Goma, wouldn't be the least bit suprised if stupidity selects the leaders in Aus...

Same thing happend in the U.S

Same thing happened here on the tiny little island where I live.

People make stpid choices...

we could have selected to become a province of the Netherlands.... heheh, then all would be well, smoke my brains out and live of wellfare... hahaha

no seriously, that would have ment that we would be better organized ....

[MrBumpy]

Even though NZ pulled out of the ANZUS treaty....is the treaty Australia and the US have still actually called the ANZUS treaty?

the point I was trying to make was that it is pretty sloppy reporting referring to a treaty that no longer exists...and if it does exist...why the hell didn't they change the name of the treaty...now some 'rogue state' is gonna think poor little new zealand is allied with the US and they are gonna bomb them and their airplanes with flightless birds painted on them (I always giggle when I think about the NZ airforce...you'd think they'd come up with a better design). buuut...now that I've gone off on the tangent of Flightless birds I have lost my trai of thought and have forgotten what I was gonna type....I seriously think I might be making myself stupid

-bumpy

[waterdragon]

gomaos:

howard doesn't care about the electoral consequences because there aren't ever going to be any.

By that do you mean there aren't going to be any more election because Howard will soon proclaim a faschist dictatorship without elections?

or do you mean that australian people are so stupid they're gonna vote for hin anyway?

neither of those options. there will always be people dull enough to vote for howard (even though vast numbers of them are waking up). australia(america too) is much more digusting than a dictatorship because it pretends to be democratic. the election results are all sorted before a vote is cast. just watch the so called polls before an election, or listen to the media scum, or see which side makes no pretense at being an opposition/has no policies. it's all too simple and even if the public did decide to vote against the powers that be then the 'monitoring' systems that are in place would alert the scoundrels months before an election and the electoral boundaries would have to be altered. democracy get fucked.

[Gwydion]

Naturally, if Labor makes the decision to follow (read "leach onto") public antipathy towards the war in Iraq, the US will berate them. They are sending a number of clear messages (or, rather, resending them). The US's preferred gov. in Oz is a neoliberal one which is free from a "socialist" wing that may threaten these economic ideals. They also want one which uncritically follows US foreign, economic and military policies. This is clearly the coalition.

Further, they are indicating that they will unlikely tolerate any change of gov. unless the labor party returns to their brown-nosing past. The risk associated with the recent US statements is small, because, the war will eradicate the memory of this little 'outburst'; and because if Labor (ever) forms gov. again, they will have to kowtow to the US because of their economic and military might. Labour can only afford to criticise because they are in opposition- and they're not really being critical anyway. They're being cynical- using the anti-war sentiment that has been simmering in the australian people to assume a political mantle that belongs solely to the people, and some few small parties and groups (Greens, Socialist Alliance, Unions, Community Groups) who have been working tirelessly on this issue; to pretend that they are in any real manner different from the Coalition. Labor is not opposed to war (although some members of it are). Labor is opposed to political anonymity and decline.

Actually, as far as I am aware Karzai (and the new US ambassador to afghanistan) are both former UNACOL employees- the oil company which was negociating for a pipeline through afghanistan for most of the 90's, and for which Afghanistan was being routinely bombed in April of 2001 (well before 9/11).

As to howard- ever since he was 10 he was determined to be Prime Minister. He is not only poll-driven; he's ego-driven- an unhealthy combination of Menzies-worship and Churchill-wannabe-ness. He is currently faced with the opportunity to be what he believes to be a world leader of great standing and influence. He has stood by the US from point dot, and will continue to do so, because we are in a period of immense upheaval in international politics and political structures. Howard would like to be there when the rules get rewritten, and gain a Churchill-like stature along the way. (All this from a man with the heart of a split-pea).

ANZUS- the NZ part of the treaty is in fact invalid, and this would seem to make the rest of it invalid also, however, the other two partners made the decision to carry on with the alliance under the same name with effectively the same rules. For this reason, problems arising out of the Treaty's more restricting contents and parts (such as the first paragraph determining that all ANZUS actions be within UN and Security Council) guidleines are not actually real. The treaty is currently a consensually arbitrary document, which both the US and Australia use simply to give each other justification and a (unfortunately legal) sense of legitimacy. For Oz, we are the deputy sheriff in SE Asia, with dreams (and realities- vanuatu, timor etc) of a private empire. For the US, it is another guaranteed name on the (short) list of countries that will follow them blindly and can be used as numerical leverage in debate. Unfortunately, the Gov. is tying the knot beyond recognition with the current moves toward a FTA. The militaristic language being used in justifying trade deals is probably the beginning of replacing ANZUS (either officially or effectively) with a joint trade-military alliance that will confirm us as simply a US satellite in the region.

This style of cronyism will always be a feature of US-Oz relations unless we actually get a democratic system of gov., rather than the oligarchy under which we currently live.

[spiders]

'Actually, as far as I am aware Karzai (and the new US ambassador to afghanistan) are both former UNACOL employees- the oil company which was negociating for a pipeline through afghanistan for most of the 90's, and for which Afghanistan was being routinely bombed in April of 2001 (well before 9/11).'

Thanks for clearing that up - i knew it was one of the Texan giants anyway!

I remember John Howard making a statement in parliament in 1984 that australia was becoming 'asianised' and that immigration should become selective. (as in selectively not asian). Sounds a bit like Pauline to me...

[Rev]

It comments like that that cause 'asianisation'

instead of accepting new immigrants into our suburban society it only serves to marginalise people into collective ghettos

This is bad now and worse later

Even his choice of language targets fear.

asianised? what Indian? vietnamese? Hong kong? japan? indonesian?

a quick analysis of this riduculuous comment shows how little meaning it actually holds

maybe he should have just reprinted the old 'yellow peril' posters

As a kid there was a lot of second and third generation kids from non-english speaking backgrounds at my primary school (greek, italian, maltese, Slavic) and we all learnt and played together. There were a few chinese (hong kong) kids too. We had the same education so i think we accepted one another - and our school had an annual ' multicultural day' where the parents all brought ethnic dishes and it was a fundraiser/fete for the school.

Fried rice, yiros, traditional costumes etc...

surely if you slow down cultural interaction you dramatically increase the effect that immigration has in polarising society

It stops us all adjusting to one another- which has been an immensely gratifying experience so far given the cosmopolitan culture we now enjoy

[gomaos]

Saw da ali g movie last night.

His solution for immigration:

Let only the best looking females in, regardless of country they come from.

Well... a little sexist if you ask me....

[waterdragon]

only the ones that is fit, no mingas

[Slarty Fart Blaster]

Aight...booyakasha... na no one dis me julie...respek, seen.