Tabernaemontana Orientalis

[dracos6]

g'day all,

i was just wondering if anyone out there has any credible reports (or links) on anyone consuming T. orientalis leaves. i have searched high and low but cannot find any info, i read somewhere that that in addition to ibogaine they also contained a minor alkaloid that rendered the subject blind for several hours. i am rather sceptical of this as i could only find one such post (then again maybe thats why no usage reports could be found)

btw : i have absolutely no intention of acquiring or injesting any part of said plant or any related species nor do i recommend anyone else does, "of course"

cheers guys,

any info greatly appreciated

[Torsten]

the blindness report comes from a friend of mine. ibogaine is dangerous enough with extra problems, so my advice has been not to consume this stuff unpurified.

[Pisgah]

What is the alkaloid that causes this temporary blindness? Is it something that can be removed with relative ease? (A/B extraction)?

[dracos6]

dang, if it's a friend of yours torsten then i guess that settles that. and in regards to your question pisgah, if by A/B you mean acid/base which i assume you do, no because ibogaine is an alkaloid it will come over as well

thanks for the replies folks

[Torsten]

Pisgah, the same sideeffect was noticed from an alkaloid extract, so yes, this is an alkaloid. The only way to separate it from the ibogaine will probably be chromatography.

[Benzito]

Obviously I need to UTFSE, but I didn't even realise Ibogaine was present in anything, apart from the Iboga plant.

Could someone just briefly give me an idea of chemical levels? Is the Iboga plant still the strongest/most potent, or are there suitable Australian equivalents.

On that note: Torsten, will you be selling Iboga at any time soon?

[Torsten]

Originally posted by Benzito:

Is the Iboga plant still the strongest/most potent, or are there suitable Australian equivalents.

iboga is the strongest, but Tab. orientalis is certainly a good alternative if the ibogaine can be separated out.

On that note: Torsten, will you be selling Iboga at any time soon?

arrrrgh! These buggers are very difficult. Every year they develop a new problem that thwarts our attempts at mass propagation. In view of that it may be a good idea to do more work on Tab orientalis as it is making it much more attractive.

[Tomer Corymbosa]

hi Torsten

i would like to know if tabernamontana divaricita is dangerous like Oriental?

can u put here please the link of the page that details Tabernamontana divaricita? i just cant find it anymore...

thanks.

[Tomer Corymbosa]

lets put some light about this plant: (Tabernaemontana divaricata)

1.Tabernaemontana divaricata (Tagar, Uchu-sanango)

Apocynaceae. Closely related to Voacanga and Gardenia, T. divaricata is

an extremely popular horticultural flower with many names. It is likened to

the most aromatic in existence, with majestic flowers of graceful, undulate

beauty. The foliage is shiny and deep green. A well-grown speciman (sic)

will be 3'-4' tall, equally wide and completely covered with flowers.

Mentioned in the Kama Sutra as a love plant, it certainly puts out a

sensual vibration. A perfect gift for a lover. The very bitter roots & bark

are rich in medicinal alkaloids. The Tikunas in the Rio Loretyacu region

combine bark scrapings with aguardiente and give small doses to new mothers

during the eight days of confinement to ease afterbirth pain. The bark is

also scraped and soaked overnight in water to lessen stomach & rheumatic

pain and diarrhea. Successful growing requires bright light, warm

conditions and generous fertilization. Protect from wind so the flower buds

stay intact. As the plant grows, new leaves emerge in pairs facing each

other mimicking praying hands. A good reminder and another of natures (sic)

grand gifts.

2. It seems that the predominant alkaloid in this plant is coronaridine,

which is different than ibogaine in two places, and is related to ibogamine

in the same way that voacangine is related to ibogaine - in having an

easily removed methyl ester group. Since ibogamine has been found effective

in treating addiction in rats, and seems to be pharmacologically similar to

ibogaine in animals, perhaps ibogamine produced from the coronaridine in

Tagar might someday be a useful addiction treatment. Unfortunately,

coronaridine doesn't seem to resemble ibogaine pharmacologically.

3.Ethnobotany of Tabernaemontana divaricata:

Western India: The latex has the reputation of being very cooling and is

applied to wounds to prevent inflammation [16].

Southern India: The juice expressed from the plant is mixed with oil and

applied to the head in order to soothe pains in the eyes. Chewing the root

relieves tooth-ache. Decocted with oil and applied to the head it relieves

all indispositions, especially pains, of the head. Again, the root rubbed

up with water and drunk kills intestinal worms and rubbed up with lemon

juice it removes opacities from the eyes [1]. An infusion of the root is

believed to have febrifugal properties. An infusion of the bark and root is

used against dysentery [6]. The flowers are used to treat inflammation of

the cornea [16].

India: The plant is a constituent of various medicines for the treatment

of eye conditions. Applied as a face plaster, it is a remedy against

poisons. In clarified butter and boiled in water together with other

ingredients it cures coughs, asthma, catarrh, fevers, mania, ulceration,

morbid secretion of urine, leprosy, hiccough, vomiting, swellings,

suppression of urine, disorders of semen and womb. It predisposes women to

pregnancy. It destroys poisons. The plant is used in the treatment of the

spleen, piles and abdominal tumours. In a medicated oil as a clyster,

enema, liniment or in the ear, it is also administered for most of the

conditions just listed; in addition, it is given for diarrhea, heat in the

head, epilepsy and emprosthotonos. In oil together with other constituents

it relieves diseases and gives strength in a beneficial and excellent

liniment. It promotes the growth of hair, conception and ensures long life.

Given as a poultice with other ingredients, ir relieves headache. It is

also a constituent of a remedy to cure leprosy or pityriasis. It is a

constituent of an oil said to be a remedy for every disease. The drug is

administered as an errhine, draught, liniment, enema or lictus [19]. The

juice from the flowers is dropped into the eyes in cases of opthalmia; it

is supposed to be of a very cooling nature [4], but at the same time it is

said to be very toxic [21]. The aril gives a red color which is

occasionally used as a dye by the hill people. The wood is employed

medicinally as a refrigerant and also in incense and perfumery [20]. The

root has a bitter taste and is used as an emmenagogue, aphrodisiac, tonic

and purgative. It acts as a tonic for the brain, liver and spleen; it

removes bad humors and is useful in paralysis, weakness of the limbs and in

strangury; it lessens pains in the limbs and joints and cures scorpion

stings and epilepsy. Charcoal made from it is good in opthalmia and the oil

is good for epilepsy (Yunani). The root is acrid, bitter and heating,

astringent to the bowels, alexipharmic, digestible, useful in "kapha",

billiousness and diseases of the blood (Ayurveda) [71].

Pakistan: The plant is cultivated as an ornamental throughout the Punjab.

The bark, leaves and flowers are popular household remedies, the flowers

especially being valued by Yunani practitioners for their analgesic

properties [89].

Sri Lanka: The latex is said to be cooling and is applied to sore eyes.

It is also a remedy for toothache. The plant is commonly cultivated and its

uses are similar to those of T. dichotoma [37].

Burma: The root is an emmenagogue and a tonic [152]. An unspecified part

of the plant is used in making cakes of yeast for brewing rice beer [330].

Vietnam: The roots are used against jungle fever [97].

China: The juice of the leaves is antihypertensive and diuretic, and it

clears edema; it is also used for treating eye conditions, boils, ulcers

and other sores, as well as rabies, headache, fractures, etc. [343].

Malaysia: The root is applied against lumbago, urinary stones and

poisoning [2]. The leaves are pounded with sugar candy and water to give a

drink for curing coughs, and the ground roots are used to treat eye

conditions [25]. The leaves are used against convulsions. For ulceration of

the nose, the pounded roots are mixed with the roots of another

(unidentified) Tabernaemontana species, and the roots and leaves of

Sauropus albicans and the young leaves of Ficus hispida; the mixture is

then sniffed into the nostrils [52].

Indonesia: Throughout the country the plant is cultivated for its white,

sweet-scented flowers [8,51]. The leaves, bark and twigs may form the main

components of an arrow poison used on the Mentawei Islands; the roots are a

local medicine [33,39,50]. Water in which the flowers have been soaked is

sprinkled on smallpox patients [50]. The dried root is used as a powder or

as a decoction against stomach troubles [29]. The sap and flowers are said

to be poisonous [29, cf. 26].

Pharmacological studies on extracts from Tabernaemontana divaricata:

Crude extracts had anticancer activity [281]. Alkaloids from the seeds,

roots and pod depressed bone-marrow activity in rats, resulting in

temporary leukopenia [400].

pp. 133-138:

Pharmacological activities of individual Tabernaemontana alkaloids

Coronaridine

The alkaloid has been tested in the mouse, cat, dog, monkey and rat by a

variety of pharmacological procedures. It showed autonomic and CNS

activity. In mice it produced analgesia and was effective in suppressing

rage caused by foot-shock. Toxicity in the anesthetised cat appeared to be

associated with respiratory depression. Coronaridine was inactive in the 9

KB system in cell culture [150]. In a general pharmacological screening,

the compound exhibited little activity [164]. A single 30 mg/kg p.o. dose

of coronaridine prevented pregnancy in rats when given on day 1, 2, 3 or 4

after coitus. When given on day 5, 6, 7 or 8 of pregnancy, the results were

only partially successful. The substance showed estrogenic activity, and it

was this activity which appeared to be responsible for the antifertility

action. However, the alkaloid was devoid of anti-estrogenic, androgenic,

anti-androgenic, progestational, anti-progestational and uterine-stimulant

activities, although there was partial inhibition of oxytocin-induced

uterine response [356]. The alkaloid was active against the P-388 test

system in cell culture, the ED50 being 0.43 micrograms/ml [396].

Ibogaine

In cats and dogs the alkaloid has distinct central-stimulating

properties, different from those of strychnine, which can be abolished by

atropine. In mice, it has weak but definite anticonvulsant properties

[118]. Ibogaine has a transient hypotensive effect. It acts as a true

hallucinogenic agent, and it can be used as a stimulant to overcome fatigue

and sleepiness. It could perhaps be used as a substitute for cocaine [139].

In a general pharmacological screening, ibogaine induced tremors in mice

and jactatio capitis when given s.c. together with Rigidyl i.p. The LD50

i.v. in the mouse was 42 mg/kg [128,164]. When administered i.v. to

anesthetised guinea pigs, the alkaloid produced bradycardia that was

resistant to vagotomy and atropine sulfate (4 mg/kg i.m.). Blood pressure

was lowered, but there was no alteration in the ECG [221].

Ibogaline

In a general pharmacological screening, the substance exhibited strong

central-stimulating properties and when given s.c. together with Rigidyl

i.p. it produced jactatio capitis. In anesthetised cats it caused

hypotension and marked bradycardia. The LD50 i.v. in the mouse was 46 mg/kg

[164]. When injected i.v. into anesthetised guinea pigs, the effects caused

by ibogaline were similar to those brought about by ibogaine (q.v.) [221].

(-)-Ibogamine

Central-stimulating properties were observed in a general pharmacological

screening, and in mice, when administered s.c. together with Rigidyl i.p.,

the alkaloid produced jactatio capitis [164]. On i.v. injection into

anesthetised guinea pigs, the effects observed were the same as with

ibogaine (q.v.) [221]. Ibogamine was not active in the P-388 or KB test

systems in cell culture [354].

Voacangine

In a general pharmacological screening, voacangine exhibited a slight

central stimulating effect. The LD50 i.v. in the mouse was 54 mg/kg [164].

When injected i.v. in anesthetised guinea pigs it produced the same effects

as did ibogaine (q.v.) [221]. Voacangine had no effect on the heart [178].

The alkaloid was not active in the P-388 and KB test systems in cell

culture [353].

4.

[Torsten]

Good find. But keep in mind that these alkaloids are quite complex and usually have a lot of related alkaloids in the mix. This can produce very different effects at different times of year, from different climates or even from different plants.

[Tomer Corymbosa]

but you know guys, i dont know what the problem with this plant,it changes his leaves to Yellow!!

and i fertilize it once a week with Biofish (Biobizz) and i put it on part shade part light.

maybe something wrong with Ph???

[Torsten]

more shade and better food. Try some manure.

[Torsten]

All Tabs prefer some shade. Darcy, your tab has plenty of shade as we have good cloud cover over summer. You can watch them spring to life as soon as the cloud cover increases and they go somewhat bleached during the clear days of early summer. Tomer's climate is probably more like the south australian desert....

[spunwhirllin]

hi,

my tabers all have these little white worm creatures on the bottom sides of the leaves.

any ideas as to what this pest is?

they only affect the taber's,and nothing else.

thanks.

[Tomer Corymbosa]

ok i'll tell u my secret formula - its cure all plants from bags,worms etc.

ok you need:

12 cup of grinded Garlic in 1 cup of water.

put some fresh leaves of Peppermint/Mint if u have.

leave it alone for night.

next day get rid of the garlic till u have only liquids - than spray it on leaves and the worms will go away (not die!) but it must go after you spray it.

this formula good for anything

[apothecary]

Sounds OK Tomer, I may even give it a go.

The problem you may not realise is that here in .au land, our pests and weeds are about as hardy as they come

They have a nasty habit of being very hard to kill, or for that matter even keep under control for your average backyard gardener.

However, thanks for the idea and next time I see an infestation your garlic jiuce will be the first I try

EDIT:

 

quote:

---

Tomer D.

 

In cats and dogs the alkaloid has distinct central-stimulating properties, different from those of strychnine, which can be abolished by

 

atropine.

---

Mmm, can someone elaborate on this? Central stimulating properties of strychnine abolished by atropine, or central stimulating properties of ibogaine abolished by atropine?

Heh. Can Datura be used to abort a Iboga trip? :D

[ 28. April 2005, 07:57: Message edited by: apothecary ]

[planthelper]

there is a thing called garden friend natural garlic concentrate available (hopefully still) in oz, made @ 70 finlayson st. (spell? the bottle i read this of is detoriating) lane cove 2066.

saves you mucking around...

i never used it much though, garlic smelling leaves are not my liking, allthough i love garlic.

i think the smell hardly ever went away...

[AndyAmine.]

I use a pre-made Garlic/Pyrethrum mix, its sold at bunnings and works well.

[telemetric]

the following are basic photo's taken behind the sand ridges half way between cairns and port douglas, hopefully better images for identification including flowers and fruit to come as soon as i get access to a camera again...

[telemetric]

Obviously I need to UTFSE, but I didn't even realise Ibogaine was present in anything, apart from the Iboga plant.

Could someone just briefly give me an idea of chemical levels? Is the Iboga plant still the strongest/most potent, or are there suitable Australian equivalents.

On that note: Torsten, will you be selling Iboga at any time soon?

its pretty low, and only in the leaves, with alkaloid yields of .13 - .84 % from dried leaves

of which ibogaine represents ~ 32% of that ... (according to not 100% accurate and old dated methods used back in knox's 1975 report)

[telemetric]

[edit]

[t st tantra]

i've smoked the leaves ,bark and or root bark of most of these and star jasmine for mild but noticable effects.you would have to smoke too much to get full entheogenic effects.

apo,the star j can have a slightly headachy effect but a pinch of brug clears that and also tops it off to give a euphoric stimulated state.i think any iboga type alkaloid and brug would be similar.

i think i have a tab div from sab and i've found it a very pleasant smoke,i'm eagar for my plant to get bigger!

t s t .

[Rev]

quote

The problem you may not realise is that here in .au land, our pests and weeds are about as hardy as they come

yeah aussie beasties are tough but lets not forget that Tomer sits at the intersection of the desrts of Europe, Africa and Asia

where the toughest of all 3 meet for duels

[Thelema]

can anyone inform me about the alkaline status of tabernaemontana australis and tabernaemontana pandanaqui?

[Torsten]

can anyone inform me about the alkaline status of tabernaemontana australis and tabernaemontana pandanaqui?

maybe. if I knew what you meant