yopo: south american magic snuff

[teonanacatl]

this is my gnomes experience with yopo/vilica. he typed it so its in first person........

it was christmas afternoon and after snorting small amounts of seed all day to get used to it i decided to try a larger dose. i got five seeds and heated them over a candle untill they popped.........pop.......... i then deshelled and ground them as fine as i could. how do people grind things so fine as flour and buzz powder???? neway it was still pretty chunky. i put 1/3 lime in and stired, the lime is the stuff i use for chewing betel nut. i sorted it into two lines and wondered round for a few ages. it was about 6pm and i got a tube and snorted one line into each nostral, only got about 3 seeds up my nose. i then rubbed my nose hard as the burn started. i would like to say that the burn isnt that bad and is easyly ignored. it felt like my head swelled up and i could hear a ringing in my ears, the pressure in my head got worse and very uncomfortable, felt like it would burst. then the nausia came i ran outside and threw up a few times, the grass looked the same as after smokeing dmt, triangular and more aqua colour, very pointy. went backinside and layed down, i was sweating profusely and so i fumbled to turn the fan on. the white noise on the tv had colour in it, i turned it off. i closed my eyes and was met with lines dancing in my head, these were not mushroom lines or dmt lines, they took on a different form. there was a feeling in my body, incredible feeling, euphoria, it was alive. after about 30mins of enjoyment, nosepicking, blowing and snorting out snot i rolled over and fell asleep watching the entertainment in my head. i woke up an hour later and made myway to the shower. my nose wasnt sore and neither was my head, i felt great, just couldn't walk straight. a shower felt great as usual. watched a dvd and went to sleep about 10:30pm. i woke up feeling great, no next day hangover. with my experience in hand i have a few questions that someone might be able to answer. is there a maoi in these seeds which caused me to throw up??? next time i will do on an empty stomach. how do you grind up these seeds to smaller particles, like flour?? any side effects of bufotinine??? also i tryed one seed without lime and there is a feeling of euphoria there, slight reality kink. despite the nausia and head pressure and nose burn, this was a good experience and i am keen to try again. it felt like i had been part of something truly sacred. i liked preparing it to, will deffinetly havta make a ritual to go with it to get me in the mind set.

[ 27. December 2004, 15:59: Message edited by: teonanacatl ]

[mescalito]

Thank your gnome for writing that up Teon I've been trying to talk mine into trying this for ages now.Was the nausea overwhelming and violent like aya?

BigW has B&D electric coffee grinders for ~$40 these work extremely well for making flour from seeds rue vilca etc.

[Torsten]

WOW! that must have been quite an experience. Thanks for sharing.

When making powders it is good to use an impact grinder (fancy word for coffee grinder that has fast spinning blades rather than grinding discs/stones). But for best results you need a VERY fine tea strainer. In fact, a coffee mesh (eg the bottom of a coffee plunger / french coffee press) is best. That way any large bits are sifted out and it is these that cause the pain and most of the boogers.

Yopo is Anadenanthera peregrina. It contains mostly DMT. It is also not available anywhere. The stuff offered by retailers is usually misidentified or misrepresented.

I presume your experience was from Villca, which is Anadenanthera colubrina. It contains mostly bufotenine.

[Rev]

Ott suggests that bufotenine is the major constituent in most anadenathera peregrina seed snuffs analysed

here are 2 eampoles of pergrina snuff from the orinoco (the centre of peregrina snuff usage) from the 60s

snuff 1 Bufotenine, DMT , 5 MeO (80:19:1)(no quant.)

Snuff 2 DMT 5MeO Bufotenine (75:19:6)(o.21%)

(120 year old sample of seeds contained only bufotenine 0.61%)

The Piaroa at least are known to blend seed traded from trees of different geographic origins to make desired blends.

heres the bit at the end

range of constituents

(%)

Peregrina var peregrina

(Bufotenine)0.01-7.4% ( 5MeO)0.04 (DMT)0.16

Peregrina var falcata

( 4.7 (M) 0.01 (D) 0.17

Peregrina var Cebil

( 0.5-12.4 (M) 0.06 (D) traces

There are peregrina trees in Haiti and Puerto rico

surely these would be accessible to somebody in the US or carribean to get seed

[Rev]

BTW teo

the way you describe it sounds pretty spot on

the vomiting is apparently not unusual (so say my informants )

ive seen teh amounts of snuff in volume that you have to put up your nasal cavity to get there and its impressive

if one was to want to further emulate the original add some beta carbs to the mix

one published level from analysed snuff is 0.38% harmine by weight

[Torsten]

Originally posted by reville:

Ott suggests that bufotenine is the major constituent in most anadenathera peregrina seed snuffs analysed

snuff 1 Bufotenine, DMT , 5 MeO (80:19:1)(no quant.)

Snuff 2 DMT 5MeO Bufotenine (75:19:6)(o.21%)

I think you contradicted yourself here (snuff 2 is obviously dmt dominant by volume)

It is probably quite true that the w/w amount of bufotenine is usually the weight dominant alkaloid. However, keeping in mind that 5MeO-DMT is at least 30 times as potent as DMT when inhaled, in snuff #1 for example a substantial portion of the effect would still come from the 5MeO even though it is a mere fraction of the other two.

In the case of snuff 2 the 5MeO would totally obliterate the effects of the other two.

I know that there are strains that contain virtually nothing but bufotenine (around Salta) and even these are still used as snuff, but I think we need to be careful about jumping to conclusions that bufotenine is the target compound.

The fact that ancient snuffs contain only bufotenine is probably more a matter of decomposition and not design.

[Rev]

Torsten:

I think you contradicted yourself here (snuff 2 is obviously dmt dominant by volume)

wasnt trying to contaradict. it was 2 statements.

one general and the other showing the exception those are just two examples

already made the point about most but here was specific example showing that yes some peregrina samples did have DMT as a dominant alkaloid however general coments like p=dmt, C =bufo previosly is not supported. Its far too complex to oversimplify

In the case of snuff 2 the 5MeO would totally obliterate the effects of the other two.

taking it more in line with the 5 MeO dominant virola snuffs. It doesnt sound like DMT plays a very big role in any of these snuffs with it being rimarily a 5M and bufo thing

one way to test would be to get some snuff shamans to take lines of pure compound freebase and tell us what part they think has the essence of yopo

[teonanacatl]

having not tried aya i cant say weather the purge was like that or not, but i wasnt bad it felt good, up came all christmas lunch lol. i tried it in a coffee grinder and i filtered the finer stuff out but the chunks would break up. the heating of the seed i believe surves no purpose but to make the seeds dried out, otherwise they just form a paste. though i read that heating converts bufo to dmt??? yeah it was vilica, but vilica doesnt sound as good as yopo lol.

there has to be a way to decrease the amount required to get up your nose, as rev said its incredible. is there a simple extraction to do or as rev said would some rue in the mix be better. i also think the amount of lime is important i snorted 2 seeds with a small amount of lime and got only a feeling. a possibe way of avoiding adding the lime is to mix some in water and snort this before the vilica, this would basify the nasual passage without increasing to the amount to snuff.

i could deffinetly feel 5meo dmt and dmt but there was something else that i had never tried aswell. ive thought about trying it sublingually but i dislike the burns from the lime :S

[Torsten]

grind the seeds, then add the lime and grind again. The leave sit for a day or two before assaying.

Or even better, grind seeds, add lime, add enough water to make paste, knead for 2 hours, dry to a crisp and then grind to fine powder.

The concept is that the freebasing of the alkaloids takes a little while. It requires intimate contact between the material and the lime. It also requires a little bit of moisture.

The piaroa shaman make their snuff by kneading in a small amount of water for several hours and then drying the resultant patties before grining them. The length and significance given to this part of the procedure should give us some clues as to how important it is to freebase the alkaloids.

The longer exposure to air also means that any accidental calcium oxide is hydrated to calcium hydroxide which is a lot less painful. Also, the more lime reacts with the alkaloids the less will react with your nose. By using the wet method you might find that you can dramatically reduce the amount of lime required as more efficient use is made of it.

Leaving it sit overnight will also allow CO2 to bind into the lime and form limestone, which is benign in the nose.

[teonanacatl]

do they have to be freebase to snort, i thought a salt would be fine???????? ive got the other half of wat i snorted sitting there so i will add some water and let it dry then grind again.

[Rev]

if the water fraction added was a rue extract it might make it more fun amd not increase total volume much

[friendly]

Gnomespeak: Take 3-4 A. colubrina seeds, remove the husks (very important) toast, powder and smoke in a pipe with a screen--slowly, one hit at a time and waiting a few minutes between hits.

At around hit 4, things get psychedelic. Too much is no fun.

Titrate your dosage for best effects.

(contributed by the green furry gnome group.)

[teonanacatl]

i dont really want to smoke it. can the same be dont with snuff though, how long apart can doses be taken. eg dmt u havta get as much as u can first go.

[t st tantra]

if you predose with an maoi you should need only 1/3 as much snuff.the experience will also be more ayahausca like,coming on slower and lasting longer.

the herb or maybe ginger should reduce nausea.

ayuravedic[sp?] has a form of preparation which is as a superfine powder.once your powder is ground fine ,place in a cloth with a close mesh,tap the cloth ball in to a bowl and superfine powder should come through the cloth.

i suspect justicia pvs,which is included in virola snuffs,may increase the uptake of alkaloids in the nose [by thinning the blood?].

t s t .

[Stroodes]

My gnome had a similar experience with anadenanthera colubrina (all in 1st person too : prepared 8 seeds (i think) by poppin em like popcorn in a fryin pan, then crushing with a beer bottle and a bowl to partly powder, and partly small chunks (i wish i had taken the shell off). Mixed this with crushed lime powder (forget the ratio, i got it all off erowid.org), which was made by drying out expired lime paste found in the back of an asian grocer .

Just to let ya know, the setting was a friends property, down at the 'yurt' by the lake (real cool spot), with light music such as Chillie Peppers (not sure now). Sheesh, i had 3 fat lines infront of me, only two i managed to get down (making the dose about 5 seeds). OMG OMG OMG my head felt like it was about to explode, so i spent the next minute trying NOT to think about the pain, while spitting in the sink. Sat down, while begining to feel a unique 'rush' of euphoria that became very intense, acompyaning a quite distorted mind. Visual effects became strong and enjoyable, with beautiful multicoloured unique snowflake paterns of varying size surounding every object (there were other visual effects but i forget now - im sure i woulda had CEV, but i didnt get around to closing my eyes, silly me). After 5-15 mins of this (had no sense of time) i began to feel slightly nauseous, but i thought meh, tis just placebo nausea. How wrong i was - within 3 seconds i was projectile vomiting off the plontoon into the lake :D . After this the effects had worn off a lot, but were still evident. For the next hour or so there was a great afterglow effect, with general feelings of well-being.

Let me say that it is not worth burning out your nasal cavaties in my opinion - after this my gnome tried smoking the raw shelled seeds in a pipe, but oh my, the smoke is unbelievably harsh while it tastes like fish too. Im sure a resin would be easy to make if one was intent on doing so - either with alcohol or plain water as the solvent. Otherwise, it could be taken orally with a MAOI, and arent there reports that it works sublingualy without the need of a MAOI? All in all, its wide variety of tryptamine cousins seem much more insightful and enjoyable, while bufotenine also has supposed toxic effects. My gnome is glad he undertook the experience, but has no intention on repeating it.

[woof woof woof]

dry roast seeds,... powder finely , add maoi like powdered rue seeds,... add fine powdered citrcacid crystals to make it slightly acidic. mix all 3 ingrediends with a binder ( what binder should be used - easy to obtain binder ) - roll into little pellets and enjoy.

the ratios should be figured out using common sense!

came up with this inspired by the above post.

[ 09. January 2005, 12:18: Message edited by: brian ]

[teonanacatl]

 

quote:

---

dry roast seeds,... powder finely , add maoi like powdered rue seeds,... add fine powdered citrcacid crystals to make it slightly acidic. mix all 3 ingrediends with a binder ( what binder should be used - easy to obtain binder ) - roll into little pellets and enjoy.

---

is that for sublingual use??? has anyone tried it this way???? i am more likly to stay away from this method as there is no mention of this being done by natives so there has to be a good reason. i think its amazing that they worked out the preperation of somethings like yopo, vilica and ayahuasca.

honestly unless an extraction is done there is no room for any more ingredients, u know them packets of sugar u get from coffee shops, empty 1 of those and thats how much i havta snort (assuming u have the same size ones. there would nearly be 1 teaspoon full. i will make somemore in a few days. leaving it out doesnt seem to change the lime to a carbonate.

[teonanacatl]

now im fairly sure yopo would be illegal, anyone care to proove me wrong.......i hope u can.........

[Torsten]

yopo is illegal, but so is cebil.

As soon as you do anything other than sow & grow with the seed it becomes illegal.

[Thelema]

there certainly is a difference between freebase and salt insnufflation.

My gnome has tried both with varying samples of 5meo-DMT, 5mg of freebase did not come even close to 20mg of salt. vaporization seems nonplussed by the form.

[teonanacatl]

so having as a base is the most potent for insuffalation, i thought that it was naturally in base form to???

[teonanacatl]

this is my second vilica experience, this time 6 seeds were heated ground to fine powder and then 1/3 lime was added it was wet and it took 2days to dry, it was then left incontact with the air for 2 weeks. after lining up the two lines there was noway i could fit that much in my nose so 1 teaspoon of rue seeds were grownd and placed in a cup with lemon juice and boiling water, after 5 mins it was strained and drunk. also some ginger was taken. i havent eaten since 9pm last night.

8:55am: Rue taken

9:00am: i can feel something but as ive never had rue before i dont know wat its like. my goal for today is to snort 3 seeds worth.

9:15 i feel droswy dopey kinda thing, also having trouble hitting the right keys whilst typing, no nausia though. will wait 5 more mins then go have 3 seeds of vilica.

9:20am im going now, my room is set up with a bucket incase of vomit and 2 boxes of tisues and a water bottle. music in the back ground is moby porcelain.............

10:20am i got down the 3 seeds, maoi did increase the effects, was more gentle then last time, head didnt feel like exploding came on in 5 mins. i vomited up the rue and bile eventually. visuals both open and closed eye, just dancing lines though. had cold and hot flushes. visuals lasted 1 hour, body load extreme and lasts for one hour, im still coming down, this is nice now. the experience wasnt nice and i wont be doing it again.

some suggestions to others. i read a pharmacology page which detailed routes of administration. under insuffalation it said. only particles under 2 micron are able to be absorbed, so really fine. set room up with a bucket tissues and water, fast for as long as possible and snort it all up then rub nose hard.

[2b]

Ok so I've been meaning to bring this up for a while now but now is as good a time as any.When salts of a drug are insuffalated the drug in question would be absorbed through the mucos membrane and finally the lungs were i asume it disolves ? Snuff doesn't dissolve , doesn't all get absorbed at the mucus membrane and ends up in the lungs anyway , so what then ? Will the body eventually purge these foriegn bodies via coughing ? They've gotta go some were as they can't disolve ? :confused:

[mescalito]

The snuff would end up lodged in the sinus cavity where it is absorbed through the mucosa.Some shit would end up in the stomach from snot running back but I don't think you would be able to get any in the lungs (I hope )

[teonanacatl]

nope none in the lungs all in the nose, lots of mucous is produced and it runs into your belly, your nose is designed to stop things going into you lungs and it does a great job at it.

lol now that im doin the experience doesnt seem to bad, might try it again.

wat wold be the best way of extracting from the seeds. soak in water??? or non polar as its a base??? or enthanol??? im willing to try one more time but only with a extract!!