tipz Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard and US President Barack Obama have revived their predecessors’ cordial relations, announcing an historic agreement on 16 November to house 250 US Marines at the Robertson Barracks, close to Darwin. US troops posted in Australia will conduct joint exercises and training, and by 2016 their numbers are scheduled to have grown to 2500. Under the agreement American military aircraft will also make greater usage of the Tindall Air Force base (Northern WA), and have access to the Stirling naval base at Garden Island near Perth, WA. Not one to be outdone in militaristic gaff, Opposition leader Tony Abbott promised that a Coalition government led by him would establish a new joint facility on Australian soil to accompany the two existing joint facilities, Pine Gap (near Alice Springs, NT) and Kojarena (near Geraldton, WA). Here is the rest of the article article Id like to hear what peoples views on this are. ( not that our views as concerned citizens really enter the eqaution). This is coming at a time unparalleled in history, as America the empire is extending militarily, as it collapses from within. Something many experts are predicting will flare into what may possibly be the biggest conflict this world has ever seen. Personally, I can't get over the indifference that people show over the needless death and destruction raging around the world and the lack of foresight to see where things are heading. Why is everyone so desensitised to what is going on. And it shames me, that here in Australia, our own government is participating in these war crimes, under our name and without our approval. Just because you ignore it does not mean it's not happening. Edited November 19, 2011 by tipz 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dworx Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) abandoned Edited April 4, 2013 by dworx Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Cady Posted November 19, 2011 it'll go well with pine gap , north west cape and the training at shoal water bay. we may as well be the 53rd state of israel 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
noshiewa Posted November 19, 2011 say no to american troops in any country but their own i say 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dionysus Posted November 19, 2011 what makes it worse is these deals have been made by a prime minister that has been in power twice with out ever being voted in by the people, i now hate to think how we may be being misrepresented. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tipz Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free" Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Edited November 19, 2011 by tipz 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
s4L Posted November 19, 2011 "U.S Forces give the nod It's a setback for your country" I remember listening to a podcast of this talk last year. Transcript of the fourth annual Michael Hintze Lecture in International Security Delivered by Professor John Mearsheimer Interesting to see what he talked about start to develop. I would like to argue tonight that Australians should be worried about China's rise, because it is likely to lead to an intense security competition between China and the United States, with considerable potential for war. Moreover, most of China's neighbors, to include India, Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Russia, Vietnam, and yes Australia, will join with the United States to contain China's power. To put it bluntly: China cannot rise peacefully.It is important to emphasize, however, that I am not arguing that Chinese behavior alone will drive the security competition that lies ahead. The United States is also likely to behave in aggressive ways, thus further increasing the prospects for trouble here in the Asia-Pacific region. In particular, the power gap between China and the United States is shrinking and in all likelihood "US strategic primacy" in this region will be no more. This is not to say that the United States will disappear; in fact, its presence here is likely to grow in response to China's rise. But the United States will no longer be the preponderant power in your neighborhood, as it has been since 1945. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SunChaser Posted November 19, 2011 This whole thing is a symbolic message from America to China. The message is simple; the US is still the world power for now and still has power in Southeast Asia. It will probably affect Australia’s relationship with china a little, but it shouldn’t be too bad. Since we’re only giving them access to a pre-existing Australian military base, rather than actually giving them one, which probably really would cause problems with china. I personally find it very exiting to be living in a time, which we will see a great world power fall away and watch a new one take over. Lets just hope there’s no war, don’t think the earth could handle a third world war now we have nukes and shit. Peace 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theuserformallyknownasd00d Posted November 19, 2011 this whole thing scare the bejebus out of me. All that runs through my head is NWO, war with china, a new depression and more "brave" aussies lost at war... sure it mightnt happen for a while, but itll probably happen when my kids are establishing themselves... d00d 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SunChaser Posted November 19, 2011 this whole thing scare the bejebus out of me. All that runs through my head is NWO, war with china, a new depression and more "brave" aussies lost at war... sure it mightnt happen for a while, but itll probably happen when my kids are establishing themselves... d00d lol. Peace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arsea Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) Security seems to be the driving force that is destroying everything we hold dear. Oh my it sucks but me thinks it is easier this way. Leaves me feeling lost with no hope, so i tend to look away. But i love and dream which confuses me, some where in i, i feel this calling which avoids giving up. So i tend to think its up to you/us. Just how i feel. Arsea Edited November 19, 2011 by Arsea 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theuserformallyknownasd00d Posted November 19, 2011 Yeh jabez well read on that bud! D00d Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sallubrious Posted November 19, 2011 More military bases that bypass Aussie customs = more illegal drugs period The U.S reneged on their deal to allow full access to pine gap and now we are getting more of the same. I can almost hear the calls for nuclear power in Australia again, if we have nuclear power generation who gives a fuck about a few missiles ??? A few permanent nuclear installations will free up some the nuclear armed subs for more offensive deployment. Now we have multiple cloud systems up and running it's getting like skynet from the Terminator, not to say the cloud/s could actually launch a strike but they will surely be influencing decisions. Maybe the Americans are just doing what the computers suggest. Joynet vs Amazon Cloud coming to a planet near you - humans get out of the way. As far as I know Joynet can be deployed by the Chinese military anytime but Amazon would involve a few extra steps that could cost vital time in a tricky situation. Interesting times for sure. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tipz Posted November 20, 2011 (edited) More military bases that bypass Aussie customs = more illegal drugs period Ok so its not ALL bad but seriously... From what i understand this agreement permits the americans to station nuclear armed submarines here I cant believe not even our top levels of government are privy to what goes on at pine gap. Americas largest offshore CIA/military base. Who is to say there are not nukes there allready... It is classed as american soveriegn soil isn't it ? Without the use of Australia, americas aspirations for weaponising space and its ability to fight these illegal wars of aggression would be severely thwarted. I say kick the fuckers out ! But then again, if we dont let them in they will try a coloured revolution and failing that bomb the living shit out of us and just take what they want anyway I was just looking for pine gap on google earth... couldnt find it but i found the harold holt naval comunications base just north of exmouth in W.A ... It's kind of eerie because from above it kind of looks like the star of david ( not saying there is anything in that because i know there is not... just an observation ) Edited November 20, 2011 by tipz 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rabelais Posted November 20, 2011 Just a side note on China: Here is their claim over the South China sea. Now that is a giant 'fuck you' if ever I have seen one. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arsea Posted November 20, 2011 Think this song best sums up the USA's agenda. "Fear is the guiding force, that they want us to use" On the positive side, it gives us hope. It may be off topic, but it sums up the crazy situation we have found ourselfs in. Anyway i see the bottom line is... How do we/us as a collective (Australians), keep America's grubby hands away from us (respectfully)? Anyone? Arsea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tipz Posted November 20, 2011 Think this song best sums up the USA's agenda. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThunderIdeal Posted November 24, 2011 last night paul keating spoke on lateline. he was critical that our government let obama make the speech here, and said china and america should both be included in the region along with everyone else, but attempting to contain china and treat it like the soviet union was a mistake. the 2500 troops is no biggie, but obamas hardline speech, spoken in our parliament, makes it appear that we are standing with america against a falsely perceived chinese expansion. he also said that just because our foreign minister speaks mandarin, doesn't mean that he understands china. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dundee Posted December 10, 2011 they are here to liberate us and install democracy 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zen Peddler Posted December 11, 2011 I hear there is also a secret joint-run military base near Mt Zeal in NT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2Deep2Handle Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) It all scares the fuck out of me, and dont believe we should get involved with any war mongering country. Especially the U.S (too late now as we have a prime minster (not even appointed by the people as mentioned) who loves to stick her noses in other peoples shit. The chinese may be communist and harsh censoring bunch, but when was the last time they committed the regular atrocities that the US does and tried to say it was in the name of Peace like they do. The US has always used false guises in the name of keeping themselves the self appointed worlds watch dog. Short of all this, we could just ask the Swiss if they could rule us? judging by history they seem like a peaceful mob who likes to mind their own business? Edited December 11, 2011 by 2Deep2Handle 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indigo264nm Posted December 11, 2011 Man the US really needs to get it's priorities in order. I don't understand how they can justify the military budget whilst the economy is collapsing. Little things like this will cost a lot of money - but a minuscule amount in their annual military expenditure. When they have to slash NASA's funding, and keep asking China for a 'just a couple more trillion dollars on tick brah' you'd think they'd consider maybe not wasting money on shit like this. Think of the last 3 trillion dollar loan from China this year. I just looked up the budget request breakdown for defense related expenditure and it's over a trillion dollars added together for next year. The logic behind borrowing 3 trillion dollars in '11 with plans to spend a trillion on the military alone in '12 is JUST SO FUCKING STUPID. Like that's some fucking poor money management.. I'm bad at managing money but at least I make sure my rent and bills are paid and I have enough food in the cupboard to survive until next fortnight if I'm gonna blow all my cash on drugs straight away This senselessness upsets me more than the idea of having US military on Australian soil. They can't even provide adequate free healthcare or social security for the already high percentage in poverty conditions as is let alone cater for further unemployment and homelessness if further economic decline continues... We have it lucky in Australia if all we have be concerned about today is agreements to allow a US military base or two. That majority of the population in Australia will never notice a change to their daily life as a result. I don't agree with it, but at least our country isn't going to suffer anywhere near as much as the US citizens are likely doomed to suffer over the coming 5 years. We got it easy. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
migraineur Posted December 11, 2011 I was going to post the map of China's claim to the South China Sea that Dale Cooper posted. As much as people would hate to admit it we need the yanks. The United Kingdom bailed on us a long time ago and without the Americans we would be in a bad position. We only have a population of about 22/23 million people which also means that the Australian Armed Forces are relatively small. The Americans provide us with an ally and modern weapons such as Super Hornet Fighter Jets, Black Hawks, PC3 Orions, Abrams tanks and a multitude of other hi tech weaponry that we might not have otherwise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indigo264nm Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) ^^^ Uhhh China relies on Australia to power themselves from a mining industry in Australia with a huge annually overturn of employees.. China if theoretically attempting to overtake Australia would shoot themselves in the foot.. Australia relies economically on exporting natural resources\primary produce... China relies on Australia for these resources. Unless China becomes completely nuclear powered they need us for coal, and even then we can supply uranium instead anyway. Most of all you can't say we need US bases to defend us against invasion by China or any country. A navy base in Perth, an air force base in N.WA and the other two joint bases in the NT. That's not exactly set up to be able to defend majority of the Australian population residing down the east coast and through Victoria. Thinking of China as a threat to Australia at the moment with current trade agreements reflects instead the prevalent fear or hatred of Asian immigration most noticed in generations above the present 20yr old mark. I base this comment on personal experiences with too many people who talk about how China is going to take over Australia because they have the biggest land army in the world + North Korea as an ally. All these people at some point used a comment along the lines of "I'm not racist... I just don't like Asians" as justification. Edited December 11, 2011 by -=IndigoSunrise=- 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
