tripsis Posted October 15, 2011 How are the results in the following images possible? Do crested pachanoi flower and thus set seed? I've never come across a picture of one in flower, but how else to explain ~40% of the seedlings turning out to be crested if not from a crested mother or father? See also here and here (I can't find a way to directly link to them, nor to save them). 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foo Posted October 15, 2011 Maybe he weeded out most of the non crested ones when they were smaller. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted October 15, 2011 I don't think so, as the title for one of those photos stated that around 40% were crests. Even if most of the normal seedlings were weeded out, that is still a remarkably large number of crests. Seriously, when have you seen a photo like that before? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted October 15, 2011 Check these ones out too: 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Philocacti Posted October 15, 2011 probably it was like nitrogen's cross, the mother was a monstrousos peruvianus and the father was a normal SS02, his cross produced something like 80% mutants. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted October 15, 2011 I figured it must have been something like that. I would love some seed like that! So can crested Trichos flower? Is it possible? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
solomon Posted October 15, 2011 So can crested Trichos flower? Is it possible? Never seen evidence but I can't see why not, especially as crests can revert to normal/semi monstrose growth. If nitrogens TPM put out a flower and Kadas TBM crest has put out flower hair/the beginnings of a flower surely someone has had a pach crest flower..? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted October 15, 2011 especially as crests can revert to normal/semi monstrose growth. This is a very good point. If nitrogens TPM put out a flower and Kadas TBM crest has put out flower hair/the beginnings of a flower surely someone has had a pach crest flower..? Monstrose Trichos seem to flowers more readily (I can think of two separate monstrose plants which have flowered), but no crests which have flowered. True kada's plant almost flowered, but never quite got there. His plant was also a monstrose crest, rather than just a crest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixSon Posted October 15, 2011 anyway to contact the poster and ask him where they got his/her seed from? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted October 16, 2011 Not sure. The last of those photos were dated 2004 though, so unlikely the same seed would still be available. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunter Posted October 16, 2011 Makes sense that it is inherited as a trait, possibly cytoplasmic inheritance, pollen does not seem to carry the trait but maternal plants do. Echinopsis multiplex is a close relative of San Pedro that comes in freely flowering crested forms. Keeping an open mind you have to consider that so many crested forms of plants flower that there is no reason to think they would not for one type of plant or family. I know some folks like to say they have not seen it, but that doesn't mean much in terms of humans, we have very short life spans and even shorter spans for attention. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chilli Posted October 16, 2011 Are there any crested pachs in Australia yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted October 16, 2011 Indeed, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of crested Trichocereus species flowering, but having seen nor heard of such a thing yet, it is nothing more than hopeful speculation. The are some crested Trichocereus species/hybrids here chilli, but if there are any crested pachanoi, no one is letting on yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naja naja Posted October 16, 2011 I don't know trip, but I'm really fucking green with envy over a seedling batch like that! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bogfrog Posted October 16, 2011 shit i never realised Oz was missing out on the pachanoi crests, we have plenty of them in nz - they all seem to be from cuttings though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted October 16, 2011 Tell me about it naja, it haunted me all night! I'd be stoked to get one crest from seed. But 40%? Fuck, I reckon I might just have a heart attack with the excitement of it! Yeah bogfrog, somehow we've missed out. Now with the laws regarding the importation of live plants the way they are, it'll be a wonder if any pach crests make it into common circulation. I suppose the most likely way would be from seed. I'm sure I'm not alone in being envious of all the pach crests you have in NZ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zelly Posted October 16, 2011 I know the person who posted the pics, in fact I got one of those little seedling crests from him off ebay. He told me he thought the seeds resulted from a cross between a normal pc pach & normal t peruvianus. The one I got started out as a small monstrous crest, today it's 50% crests/monstrous crests & 50% monstrous & regular columns. I'll dig up some pics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunter Posted October 16, 2011 to think a plant cannot flower is far more speculative than to think it can there are a lot of photos of other echinopsis crests flowering it is very unlikely that a crested san pedro would not flower under the right conditions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted October 16, 2011 Interesting, thanks for the info zelly. Would be great to see what your one looks like. I disagree Gunter. If I plant is a mutation and has shown no indication that it can flower, then I see it as more speculative to expect that it is capable of it. Yes, some crests flower with no problems. Some monstrose plants flower with no problems. I've seen no evidence to suggest that crested pachanoi are capable of flowering, just like I've seen no evidence that a TBM is capable of flowering (bar perhaps kada's crested TBM producing flower hairs). The conditions in which a crested pachanoi grows is no different non-cristate forms, so I don't see why flowering conditions would be different, in which case, flowers should be a common occurrence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunter Posted October 17, 2011 What is the largest trich crest you have seen? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cereusly Posted October 17, 2011 That's pretty cool! I've read that hybrid plants have a higher % of abnormalities; crest, monstrose, variegated, etc. That still seems like an awfully large number of crests from a seedling batch though. On another board I frequent someone had a seedling batch of, I think, echinocereus hybrids and close to 50% of them turned out variegated. BTW Adventure Time is awesome Gunter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted October 17, 2011 What is the largest trich crest you have seen? Probably nitrogen's. Definitely large enough to flower. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunter Posted October 18, 2011 i have seen a 'pachanoi' monstrose form that flowers, throw crested growth too, though i have not seen flowers on the crested parts, the clone can both flower and give rise to crests Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted October 18, 2011 Well that's what I think is more likely - that a plant has normal or monstrose growth, but also has crested growth or can thrown crested branches, is more likely to flower from a normal or monstrose branch. The genes for cristation or monstrosity would still be there, but it doesn't necessitate the actual crested part of the plant flowering. I'm not ruling out the possibility of the crest itself on a Tricho flowering, but I've just need no evidence to confirm it. Unless the plant is 100% a crest, it appears that it's easier for the plant to flower from a non-crested section of itself. In the case of 100% crests, I'd like to see evidence of flowers (in Trichocereus species). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
