occupy wall st

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Brisbane seems to be very active, Sydney is picking up also, I am heading there tommorrow for the day to be with them.

D00d

[Marcel]

Yet another thing about OWS, but this one's especially lovely. Written by Daniel Handler aka Lemony Snicket.

Thirteen Observations made by Lemony Snicket while watching Occupy Wall Street from a Discreet Distance

1. If you work hard, and become successful, it does not necessarily mean you are successful because you worked hard, just as if you are tall with long hair it doesn’t mean you would be a midget if you were bald.

2. “Fortune” is a word for having a lot of money and for having a lot of luck, but that does not mean the word has two definitions.

3. Money is like a child—rarely unaccompanied. When it disappears, look to those who were supposed to be keeping an eye on it while you were at the grocery store. You might also look for someone who has a lot of extra children sitting around, with long, suspicious explanations for how they got there.

4. People who say money doesn’t matter are like people who say cake doesn’t matter—it’s probably because they’ve already had a few slices.

5. There may not be a reason to share your cake. It is, after all, yours. You probably baked it yourself, in an oven of your own construction with ingredients you harvested yourself. It may be possible to keep your entire cake while explaining to any nearby hungry people just how reasonable you are.

6. Nobody wants to fall into a safety net, because it means the structure in which they’ve been living is in a state of collapse and they have no choice but to tumble downwards. However, it beats the alternative.

7. Someone feeling wronged is like someone feeling thirsty. Don’t tell them they aren’t. Sit with them and have a drink.

8. Don’t ask yourself if something is fair. Ask someone else—a stranger in the street, for example.

9. People gathering in the streets feeling wronged tend to be loud, as it is difficult to make oneself heard on the other side of an impressive edifice.

10. It is not always the job of people shouting outside impressive buildings to solve problems. It is often the job of the people inside, who have paper, pens, desks, and an impressive view.

11. Historically, a story about people inside impressive buildings ignoring or even taunting people standing outside shouting at them turns out to be a story with an unhappy ending.

12. If you have a large crowd shouting outside your building, there might not be room for a safety net if you’re the one tumbling down when it collapses.

13. 99 percent is a very large percentage. For instance, easily 99 percent of people want a roof over their heads, food on their tables, and the occasional slice of cake for dessert. Surely an arrangement can be made with that niggling 1 percent who disagree.

 

Point #1 is especially great!

[santiago]

no i totally disagree with the above, im actually starting to get a tickle with OWS inside now that i had tryed to extinguish, especially since watching alan jones at the national press club today with his freedom of information expose on who the lobbyests for the mining industry are within the politicals system and the coal seam gas industry and its future.

non of the above 13 points make any real sense at all, it seems to be poorly written jokey analogies trying to be smart as opposed to actaullly making any logical sense, if OWS lines itself up with allies such as lemony snicket then no wonder nobody takes it seriously. even though its not a reflexion on you marcel because you often make intelligent poignant points i think those 13 points above were some of the crappest analogies and points i have ever read...they really are high school grade work at best.

anyway 15000 australia wide 200 people in perth have joined OWS, there seems to be a community feeling within the people that share this sentiment that we are on the verge of something great, all im saying is that i would like to be part of something great but i think OWS doesnt stand a chance and will be a fly by nighter, the organisation is too haphazard and OWS is aligning with the more weird extremist type of factions, there is no leader, no single voice, no plan, nothing but innuendo............i wish it wasnt so but it is, i know the truth hurts but is best you know so something can be done about it. on the street the common man doesnt give a shit and thats a promise........now do something about it.

[Marcel]

Daniel Handler aka Lemony Snicket is a writer and his specialty is puns and absurd metaphors. Undoubtedly, that list is not good rhetoric, nor is it especially powerful political satire, but it is quite funny (to me) and it does illustrate some unspoken social phenomena that arise as a result of the OWS movement in especially clever, if not poignant ways. It's not great literature by a long shot, and it doesn't pretend to be. I also don't think anyone within the OWS core is circulating this as representative of the movement and it's arguments and ideals. There's always room for humour (see qualia's link at post 51).

And that the "common man" doesn't give a shit: surely you're not presenting that notion as a reason to abandon all hope and waddle home for dinner and Scrabble? If anything, that's reason to rally harder and louder, no? The whole idea of a protest is to give an unspoken grievance a voice. Women can vote; you can thank grassroots protests. Australian Aboriginals can vote; you can thank protests. Gay men and women aren't imprisoned for their sexual preference; you can thank groups of ordinary, non-parliament-sitting, non-radicalised individuals with the guts to step up and scream their disapproval loudly and clearly. I can bet you there was a large percentage of "common men" who didn't give a shit about these issues at the time either. There probably still is a large percentage who don't give a shit. But I fail to see why this means that the laments of the disgruntled should be silenced.

[santiago]

couldnt agree with you more....but what do i do when i get to the rally (of 200 people in perth). i know social movement starts from 1 individual but considering the media hype, social media coverage and advertising 200 people doesnt seem like a high turnout to me, what do i do marcel? do i just go down there without knowing what to say, what to do........who am i meant to be targeting, brian burke? what do i yell out...............what proof or criminal charges do i have as ammunition, what ammunition do i have, most of these targets are invisible, how can i fight an invisible enemy if there is any enemy at all, isnt this really just a push towards communism? hasnt corruption been a part of the world since before christ, didnt that lead to his death too and that was the so called salvation of the world, are we not being corrupted now by the monarchy, who the fuck is the monarchy..some dude who won a fight on a battlefield many centuries ago and proclaimed his kids to have rights, i know where this is going,...better to do something than nothing at all, make a stance, 1 turns into 1000, nelson mandela and black and gay rights, they all had obvious social injustice but here your talking about issues the common man has no understanding of, an enemy that is invisible, an enemy that cant be defined, no leadership from within the rebellion, no direction, no message...............corruption is a fact of life, it has been since day dot......wall streets got nothing to do with it, nor has politics, im corrupted by friends every day, by my boss, by sexy women, everybody corrupts everybody everywhere everytime in the advertising you read and in the benzine air you breath, your parents corrupted you to behave..................OWS is trying to corrupt themselves into a position of power, its neither half this or half that, a pointless message for the pointless life you live, there are more important things to worry about then a bunch of old geezers, let them have there power...its gonna end one day one way or another so live your life and be happy and dont let these cunts get you down.

[ThunderIdeal]

some of your cynicism i can dig santiago, but in my opinion your rant just ends up all over the place, for example jesus has nothing to do with it, and communism, um, i was born in the eighties, my psyche contains no hint of worry that "australia is being overtaken by commie bastards from within", as torsten said by US standards australia already is run by commies. re: the last sentence, can't you live your life and be happy and not let the cunts get you down, whilst attending a protest?

i dunno, i might get cynical and think 'nah i'm not gonna go, they have no direction, their enemy is invisible, i wont make a difference' but why be the rain on the parade, have a bit of a fucking smile over the fact that a movement has gone global and motivated thousands of people off their ass and into the streets to try and win some power back for the people.

[Mt.B]

have a bit of a fucking smile over the fact that a movement has gone global and motivated thousands of people off their ass and into the streets to try and win some power back for the people.

BINGO!

[Rabaelthazar]

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

After spending 16hrs in Sydney I can say there is obvious building support for it locally. Lots of people were stopping and wishing well, plenty of euro tourists knew what was happening soon as they saw it and were blown away and stayed Aslong as they could.

The only thing I can say is it was too opinion driven for my liking, lots of little groups not meeting 100% on key issues. Australia seems to be harder than other countries in regards to getting everyone focused on the 99%, they all seemed to make to their own percentage of who they were representing. Hope that made sense, posting from a phone sucks.

D00d

[Marcel]

Well, for all those that argue that "things aren't so bad here in ol' Australia", maybe this will change your mind:

Occupy Melbourne Violently Torn Apart By Police

[Psylo]

In a couple of months, everyone will have forgotten about this, and the machine of opression will roll on unscathed. I'm sure it makes people feel good about themselves as urban radicals, but it's futile ? Dont believe me ? I'll bump this thread in 2012, it will have been long dead by then. Just as everyone here was crying about social action against the banning of ethno plants. How many people who posted on this thread are still proactive in the cause ?

Where's the tumbleweed emoticon ?

The ONLY way to make changes is through a violent social coup. A relentless and unwawering attack of the systems of authority and law enforcement, until the dictatorship is overthrows. Is anyone prepared to do that ? Flailing your arms around as part of this weeks popular rally cause wont do shit. The government knows its just people going through the motions, and in the end of the day, social awareness hasnt been increased. Mr & Mrs Joe Average still dont give a fuck, as long as Masterchef hasnt been interrupted.

You want to see changes ? Then you need to remove yourself from the machine. You'll NEVER change it, I dont give a fuck about your idealistic first-in-the-air posturing.

(note: 'you' is used as a generalisation)

[Marcel]

Hurrah! Three cheers for Psylo taking the time to explain the world to us naive idiots! How stupid of us to not realise that there is only one possible way to move through the world: with sharpened bayonets strapped to our hard and furious cocks! And if we aren't prepared to kill, then let's just go home and count down the hours until the next iphone release. There's no in between, after all... I feel so silly now!

Thanks for letting us off the hook, man!

[Psylo]

the 2003 international coordination of protesters marching against the commencement of an unjustified war in Iraq saw close to TWO MILLION PEOPLE rally to stop it happening. How did people power sway the decision in that instance ?

I attended several over that time, and gee I felt good about myself for doing so.

And I'm not suggesting the commencement of a violent uprising (for there are too many cowards), merely stating that's this is (in my opinion) the only way to have a genuine shot at enacting real change.

Off to shine my Docs & Cock for when the call comes.

[Marcel]

In 2003? Really? If change doesn't occur within 10 years, it's never going to happen? Is that what you're saying? Naive isn't thinking things can change as a result of protests; naive is thinking that protests are ineffective because the world doesn't change the day after you march and chant your way down George St. Let's not forget that there was a good 50 years between the publication of Das Kapital and the Russian Revolution (regardless of one's thoughts on the subject of the Russian Revolution, the point is that things take time). Likewise, the Industrial Revolution wasn't an event that Time magazine could cover in a season. I wouldn't discount the uprisings of '68 either; quite simply, it's too early to call.

Not everything happens on the scale of a human lifetime. Patience, my friend.

Also: "Feel good" can feel trite and pointless, but it can also create a foundation upon which new paradigms are built. What's more, I reckon it's semi-sympathetic cynicism that topples more social reform movements than state oppression.

[Mycot]

The controversial figure David Icke has recently arrived in Sydney and made a contribution to the Occupy Movement with a talk. Being about a half hour long the utube link is well worth watching.

 

An article I came across recently has interesting information regarding gross inequalities of wealth distribution in Australia. Additional interesting posts found through the link are "Defend democracy! Defend Occupy Melbourne!" and "The police are not on our side".

After the Melbourne ‘crackdown’; Rebuilding the ‘We are the 99 per cent’ movement

[ThunderIdeal]

what a pack of fucking shit heads, treating people who are doing nothing wrong, and who are not fighting back, with such brutality. to stoop so low, because their boss tells them! fucken worms.

[Mycot]

In my previous post I mentioned wealth inequality in Australia. Below a poster that illustrates more graphically.

Imagine five fellow Australians cutting up a pie and also the situation grows increasingly worse with time.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Mycot

[Torsten]

psylo, how do you know that your protest against the iraq war didn't help? It might not have helped iraq, but that doesn't mean it had no impact. Before the iraq debacle australia would follow the USA anywhere into war if requsted and with decent numbers. Since iraq our involvement [eg afghanistan] is more of a token involvement, mostly doesn't include actual combat, and weighs like a millstone around the neck of any government. other countries that are not as enslaved by the USA pulled out at the first opportunity due to the pressure put on by the population. That's not how things would have been 30 years ago.

You sometimes need to look at the bigger picture. And even if the protests didn't have a huge impact in australia, they did in many other countries. Governments lost elections over the issue in some european countries. By not participating in such protests we endorse what is happening. We might not realise it, but that's how politicians see it. That's also why they did't bother breaking up the OWS protests here. They figured they'd peter out soon enough and then they wouldn't have to be shown as the baddie. Didn't quite work out that way, but it could have ended a lot worse for the government.

As for protests not being effective, I think this is an uninformed statement. They may not get their way every time, but especialy on smaller issues protests are often extremely effective. In australia the pedder dam protests brought down the federal government of the day and plenty of similar state issues have determined state election. Also, in germany decades of protests stopped the proliferation of nuclear power [even though it was their main source of electricity]. That's pretty big issues which were forced by protests.

I do agree with you though that peaceful protests are almost regarded as an affirmation of a working democracy, but often with no real effect. I have no problem with violent protests as long as the violence is targeted right. I cringe when I see anti globalisation protestors smashing up small retail stores. They are just mindless thugs. I've seen forest protests where Boral's machinery was sabotaged, or bridges demolished to prevent machinery access. Now that's effective.

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Just found this in some comments on a YouTube video regarding Sunday mornings wake-up call in Sydney. Can anybody confirm its content or debunk it? Sounds interesting, sorry I cannot quote/link from my mobile phone

From here

http://www.occupysydney.org.au/2011/10/23/first-vision-of-violent-police-raids-on-occupy-sydney/

The comment

Dear OCCUPY SYDNEY,

ADVICE WHEN ARRESTED:

The DUTY of a POLICE OFFICER is to PRESERVE the QUEEN’S PEACE.

If you are not DISTURBING the PEACE, they have NO RIGHT to interfere with your PEACEFUL PROTEST.

The Sydney City Council is NOT LOCAL GOVERNMENT… it is a CORPORATION. – Because the council is a corporation, it can ONLY operate under CONTRACT LAW and therefore with your CONSENT. Silence is tacit consent so when we don’t object, we consent! The simple solution is always ‘SHOW ME THE CONTRACT I SIGNED THAT GIVES YOU AUTHORITY OVER ME & MAKES ME SUBJECT TO YOUR BYLAWS AND THE STATUTES OF THE CORPORATE STATE OF NEW SOUTH WALES’ Once the people get this concept in their heads, we will strat turning things around. If they cannot produce the contract with each of us individually, &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& we don’t shoot ourselves in the foot by saying ‘yes, we live IN NSW, when we ought be saying NO, I AM A FOREIGNER AND FOREIGN TO NSW (THE CORPORATE STATE) then pusue them with criminal complaints and charges, then you’ll see huge changes

LOCAL GOVERNMENT was ABOLISHED and NOT TO BE ESTABLISHED by the 1988 REFERENDUM.

Martin Place is a PUBLIC PLACE …… it belongs to the PEOPLE.

The POLICE have NO RIGHT to ORDER YOU to do anything or to TAKE YOUR PROPERTY.

They have NO RIGHT to ASSAULT YOU and to ARREST YOU.

“The purpose of a court in a civilized society is the vindication of men’s rights and the enforcement of just causes” – Lord Thomas Denning.

Your OCCUPY SYDNEY is a JUST CAUSE.

Your fingerprints and photograph are YOUR PROPERTY and are STOLEN, if taken WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT.

OCCUPY THE COURTS.

You are the 99%.

Your OCCUPY SYDNEY is a JUST CAUSE.

DEFEND YOUR RIGHTS.

D00d

[Torsten]

Bunk. the local government act gives the council loads of powers, even if it is a corporation. this is the same rubbish as the freeman on the land stuff. yes, sounds nice in theory and may even be right, but no court will actually accept it.

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

yeah, i spoke to a work mate who is currently studying law and he said it probably holds some technical merit but would require a 1000+ people to go through the courts at the same time, with this as their defense, to get any recognition. he's a third year student doing criminal law I think...

d00d

[nothinghead]

the 2003 international coordination of protesters marching against the commencement of an unjustified war in Iraq saw close to TWO MILLION PEOPLE rally to stop it happening. How did people power sway the decision in that instance ?

I attended several over that time, and gee I felt good about myself for doing so.

And I'm not suggesting the commencement of a violent uprising (for there are too many cowards), merely stating that's this is (in my opinion) the only way to have a genuine shot at enacting real change.

Off to shine my Docs & Cock for when the call comes.

 

Actually I agree with Marcel that the way you present the issue is too polarised to be useful: violent uprising, or rot in your couch. There've been a few pretty convincing books that take on the subject of non-violent protest and its efficacy like "Civil Resistance and Power Politics" and a few others I can't recall the titles of just now. One such book shows historically how non-violent direct action has been more effective in the long run than violent protest which can be sporadic and short-lived.

Whether you feel good about yourself for participating in democratic action shouldn't be the sole reason for involvement, either. It's OK to feel a certain amount of self-esteem for participating in what you take to be a worthy cause, but it shouldn't override the point of the action itself, nor should you feel guilty for being proud of trying to do a good thing.

Of course it feels intuitively easier to implement change when you have a blank slate, but that's an unrealistic solution in most cases. Keep your eyes on the prize and don't forget the minor actions that pave the way for larger ones.

On another note, the US imperialism implicit in naming a series of protests that began in Spain and were promulgated in the USA by a Canadian group is pretty sick and, for me at least, underlines all the worst aspects of what is going on globally but largely understood in the context of the US (which is hardly the most serious victim of transnational capitalism).

[santiago]

maybe this is why china has a million cyber warriors ready to pop at any given time, atypical protest was a proven failure in T square back in the day...besides a 20th century iconic wall snap shot of dude in front of tank, but unfortunately that tank still rolled on.

occupy wall street is using 20th century tactics, thats the obvious critique regardless of siding. so what you want to beat an advanced opponent who for all sakes invisible by using thousand year old proven failure tactics ie mass demonstration.........look at me loook at me, says the pre- ponents. Tired and stale, i would rather occupy my couch with a laptop than occupy a bit of meaningless dirt using stale outdated tactics.You get my drift, uprising libya virus warfare and all those new frontiers of which we/you are cutting edge. Our/Your opponents are already using moderner tactics thats why they have outsmarted you and have all your money why you go cry to mummy and occupy a playground swing set. So yesterday dude and dudettes. Surely the vision of modern day youth can look past a cliche mass protest on a hiding to nothing using previously failed stategy. Think outside the square....Tiananmen square (1989) thats right 1989, a long long time ago......and that achieved nothing.

Regardless of badgering i still feel this will be something looked back on with time with apathy. Its just too basic to be complex enough to solve any problem. Dont blame me for that i only speak what is truth. Lateral intelligent thinking and not gorilla chest beating is what is needed...your already losing so why not learn from previous losing war stategists and make a change of tact. Occupying the very area the owners own proves they only own you.

[nothinghead]

Apparently a couple of people are trying to trademark "Occupy Wall Street". Sigh......

 

more inevitable than disappointing

[Teljkon]

On 14/10/2011 at 1:56 PM, Teljkon said:

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