STD?

[Gunter]

I think everyone has jump the gun with diagnosis of this plant. It could be a variety of things this is why I suggested Glyphosphate above, to begin to think outside the square. That damage *may have been caused many things including something as simple as a direct hard water blast to sap falling from a tree to air born bacteria to insect damage to root damage to a plant genetic defect to environmental conditions to nutrient deficiency to physical damage/impact damage to anything else you can think of.

I would personally treat it with complete drenching (Roots + plant) of a combination of a Systemic Fungicide and a Systemic Insecticide wait a week and add some weak nutrients.

 

I'd like to see evidence for any of these ideas, sap, water etc, nutrients whatever, show me any case where such things did this type of cosmetic damage.

As for saying people do sloppy work, that sounds like a personal dispute that doesn't help this topic. As for them responding and saying no, that really doesn't seem insulting.

I want to mention that tobamo viruses can be present without causing symptoms, 'asymptomatic' is a good word to google with 'tobacco mosaic virus'

It is a force of nature, not a conspiracy or sloppy work that results in these types of things, if you want to blame someone... blame Obama.

[Hellonasty]

Archaea,

Don't take it personally, I was just trying to point out that we cannot confirm the cause without first knowing the background of the plant and it's growing conditions.

I do remember another instance of this virus somewhere else, I will find it and post it here.

[Bretloth]

I got a pachanoi '2' from SAB a while back and it's fine. Pyrethrum can cause similar damage, I doubt SAB is the problem.

[bℓσωηG]

'asymptomatic' is a good word to google with 'tobacco mosaic virus'

Sometimes when grafting or making cuttings the cacti i cut suddenly display similar splotching.

Last year i moved a lot of my potted cacti seedlings to an area which had previously been planted with Datura stramonium , the plants were growing shit from the time they sprouted until i eventually pulled them out (flowers kept falling off and leaves yellow and deformed ) I thought the seeds must have come with a virus but didn't know what it was , the Datura metal growing next to them were fine...

If i had known before about tobacco mosaic virus and its ability to infect cacti , and if i had known root mealie bugs spread it ...if...if

Its been causing me alot of stress but im not giving up , time for plan b ...time to go in the ground , bloody root mealies seem to love pots.

I think everyone has jump the gun with diagnosis of this plant. It could be a variety of things this is why I suggested Glyphosphate above, to begin to think outside the square. .

Thanks for your input HN but i have never used roundup in the garden... my aversion to chemical usage is the reason i let the damn mealies carry on like they did... never again ..this means war!

[Evil Genius]

Mr. Pink, i think your post was ridiculously insulting btw. I know torsten and nothing he does is sloppy work! Next time you make such a comment, you need to stand for it. Most great worldwide growers i know didnt even know a virus like this existed. This is as advanced growing as it gets. All of you, I understand your pain but im sure it wont be possible to find the cause for this and blaming people isnt particularly helpful. So its probably a good thing this happened as none of us was aware of this.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Evil Genius

[Torsten]

How was my post insulting? the bit where I asked you if you are a smoker? why is that insulting? [please only mutant reply to this question as I want to hear his take on it].

[gerbil]

would people agree this is similar to, or possibly the same as the yellow spot that is essentially endemic to the pc pach? I thought the smaller yellow spot has been spoken about before but i can't seem to find it in the search.

Possibly a different type or thing all together, as i've not seen it as spread out or severe as in the first photo. Will get some photos to communicate it better.

edit ahh here tis, bugger photos, pd put some up!

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26936&st=0&p=291261&hl=+pachanoi%20+virus&fromsearch=1entry291261

Edited September 24, 2011 by gerbil

[Psylo]

I think I have the same problem on one of mine (photo tomorrow), and its been in my possession for over two years, and didn't come from the shop you mentioned.

[Mr_PinK]

Mr. Pink, i think your post was ridiculously insulting btw. I know torsten and nothing he does is sloppy work! Next time you make such a comment, you need to stand for it. Most great worldwide growers i know didnt even know a virus like this existed. This is as advanced growing as it gets. All of you, I understand your pain but im sure it wont be possible to find the cause for this and blaming people isnt particularly helpful. So its probably a good thing this happened as none of us was aware of this.

 

i stand by everything i say , order arrived only 6 days ago 'pachanoi 2' 21.3cm was infected from base to 2/3 and was promptly disposed of , now this was ordered from the sab store so id presume it came from them yes ? if it didnt im sure im not the only one who would like to no where else sab sold plants are comming from thought im pretty sure this is not the case

comment was stating fact from my point of view there is no issue or agenda in no way did i mean the sab store delibratly knowingly sent out infected plants as the tone of your post suggests but the fact that they have is indeed sloppy imo

lets not go down the nationalsozialismus route ok cause we both no where it ends you lose

Edited September 24, 2011 by Mr_PinK

[mutant]

first of all let me say I am glad to participate in this thread. We are learning something here! me no interested in no blaming game.

gerbil>

I might have seen this on PC too.... this is quite an interesting note man, thanks

hmmmm PC having it.... pachanoi "2" looks a bit like PC.... getting infected...

alarming, but interesting nevertheless problem...

Archaea, you think it's better to kill those plants? Are these viruses lethal or just unpleasant and unsightly?

isnt't there any chemical to fight these types of viruses? I never knew mosaic viruses could affect trichocerei... so it can affect other cacti as well???

How was my post insulting? the bit where I asked you if you are a smoker? why is that insulting? [please only mutant reply to this question as I want to hear his take on it].

 

yep, that very bit man . What did you imply with it? What info I gave, you imply is inaccurate? [because I might be a smoka]

I only said I first noticed this, and it's definately the plant with most intense symptoms, on pachanoi "2" which I got from you. Still haven't got to take some shots.

Remember I never said SAB was the problem, I noticed the patches long after I got the SAB order... and I am not interested in blaming someone anyways, not my cup of tea.

Hey torsten. you never had scale infections in cacti in your greenhouse?

PS: hey blowng, what is the clone in the first pic infected?

PS2: I think I never noticed any symptoms until I cut/stressed/propagated it [talking about pachanoi "2"]

Edited September 24, 2011 by mutant

[Torsten]

yep, that very bit man . What did you imply with it? What info I gave, you imply is inaccurate? [because I might be a smoka]

I implied that tobacco virus is often found in commercial tobacco and hence cigarette smokers can easily transfer the virus to their plants. It is one of the common methods of infection in otherwise clean environments.

Maybe if you just answered the question you wouldn't look so defensive or maybe even vindictive.

Hey torsten. you never had scale infections in cacti in your greenhouse?

Didn't I already state that we have scale in our nursery in my previous post? Any nursery that doesn't use systemic poisons will have scale. The trick is to manage it so it doesn't become a problem and to make sure that no infected plants are sent out. We use predator wasps to control brown scale, but fluffy grey scale requires toothbrush and hose.

Mr Pink - without photo or some other evidence I am simply not going to believe you that this is tobamo virus. That sort of damage would have been on the plant before dispatch and would stand out to our very competent staff and hence would simply not be mailed out. You didn't even bother emailing us about it so I'll put this down to opportunistic online shit stirring.

I don't know what your skill in identifying diseases is, but the only disease we have no control over is black rot. This can develop in a matter of a couple of days in the mail and usually starts by first developing a yellowish tint under the skin, followed by a glassy appearance, followed by clear liquid eruption and that is finally followed by black ooze. This process can take 12h to 5 days from start to final stage. While we inspect plants very carefully before dispatch, the speed of this condition doesn't allow us to predict more than about 36 hours. I'll try and get a pic of that initial stage as it is very similar to the images in this thread.

Btw, we sent you 3 pachanois. Shouldn't you have disposed of all of them if you thought we had a rampant virus? Mozzies feed off cacti and are one of the main vectors of disease transmission, so if we had tobamo virus pretty much every cactus plant in our nursery would have it [but just so we are clear, I am quite certain that we don't have tobamo and so is the inspector].

[Gunter]

In my experience these viruses do not kill cacti, a plant with them can even grow quite well and only show the blotches periodically. I have had this in one of my riomizquensis for years and it has not spread visibly or caused that plant to grow slow, it is usually just ugly and a cosmetic issue.

When I say it does not spread easily in my experience I mean that if an infected plant is next to a non infected plant in a single pot, it does not appear to spread, but this is in terms of visible symptoms.

There are some interesting viruses that blemish cacti, sammons, cactus virus X, tobamo etc.

http://www.apsnet.org/publications/phytopathology/backissues/Documents/1972Articles/Phyto62n01_97.pdf

That is an interesting paper, note that it mentions a few viruses and that they can occur without symptoms

It is kind of like cactus herpes...

I like letting nature weed things out, It would be nice to infect lots of seedlings on purpose and see which ones were resistant.

The truth is that without a microscope TMV cannot be identified with certainty, even when symptoms are there.

[sapito]

Im assuming mutant assumed torsten was referring to smoking something else besides tobacco. Maybe thats where the confusion and defensiveness came from?

[Mr_PinK]

@ EG grow a thicker skin mate or tone down the *blank* attitude , dont stir up the hornets nest if your not prepared to get stung just saying

@ Torsten it displayed all the symptoms that i have seen before all be it very very rarely so was removed for harm minimisation i did not say it was definitely that the other 1 i recived from that order is quarantined for now and appeared fine if it does start to show any indicators i will make sure to snap some pics an post them here or email them to you for further query if need be , hopefully it turns out to be a over reaction or total misdiagnosis

for what its worth not deliberately meaning to be a thorn in your side

Edited September 25, 2011 by Mr_PinK

[bℓσωηG]

PS: hey blowng, what is the clone in the first pic infected?

J1 X Pach which i recieved as a mature seedling but im sure it wasn't infected when it arrived , the mealies have been having a free for all and i think the virus showed up because of the stress factor.

[Torsten]

@ EG grow a thicker skin mate or tone down the *blank* attitude , dont stir up the hornets nest if your not prepared to get stung just saying

taunting the mods is never going to improve the situation. Calling a german person a nazi is well out of line too, especially someone like evil genius. Maybe consider an apology if you're big enough for that.

@ Torsten it displayed all the symptoms that i have seen before all be it very very rarely so was removed for harm minimisation i did not say it was definitely that the other 1 i recived from that order is quarantined for now and appeared fine if it does start to show any indicators i will make sure to snap some pics an post them here or email them to you for further query if need be , hopefully it turns out to be a over reaction or total misdiagnosis

I have no problem with the discussion of the possibility of Tobamo or other diseases. we can all learn from such discussions and it is good to keep vendos on their toes. I mean, you can't know what sort of staff we have and how much emphasis we put on these matters. What I object to is firstly that you make claims without any proof or verification and that these claims could be very detrimental to my business and reputation. I also find it quite offensive that you would state we send out diseased plants frequently even though you have only placed one order with us. Despite what apologies you may make on page 3 or 6 or whatever of this thread, your initial accusation and claim is highly damaging and unfair, so it doesn't really matter what follows.

for what its worth not deliberately meaning to be a thorn in your side

16 posts and at least a third of them being somehow offensive, argumentative, or mean spirited. On top of that insulting PM's to mods, threats in posts, and whatever else might be going on in the background. Are you sure you actually want to be part of this community or are you just here to stir shit?

[Evil Genius]

Mr. Pink, i brought your post back online. With the comment in which you implied me being a nationalsozialist for not letting you accuse people like that without actually providing anything more than your words. People here, including me have been very helpful in regard to this disease and im sure we are under the first in the scene who are even aware something like this exists.

I left your post like it was, but somehow i feel you need a lesson about what national socialism means: Its Antisemitic, Anticommunistic and Anti-Democratic. Its was the ideology of the nazi party who terminated millions of people. Jews, Gays, Gypsies, blacks, physically and mentally handicapped, Jehovas witnesses and political enemies. I am pretty much the opposite of a nazi and next time you try to insult me because of my birthplace, you wont get away with just one warning point! Your the one with the racist view of the world and your post was the perfect proof for that. For the insults you sent me via pm and the threats in your recent post, i could have easily booted you but i wont let you get away playing the poor victim here. bye EG

Edited September 25, 2011 by Evil Genius

[incognito]

yep, that very bit man . What did you imply with it? What info I gave, you imply is inaccurate? [because I might be a smoka]

I implied that tobacco virus is often found in commercial tobacco and hence cigarette smokers can easily transfer the virus to their plants. It is one of the common methods of infection in otherwise clean environments.

Maybe if you just answered the question you wouldn't look so defensive or maybe even vindictive.

True that, and the reason why alot of commercial nurserys will not have smokers in the propagation room.

Mr.Pink, pull your head in. You have only been here 5 minutes and already you are abusing a valued and respected moderator.

A little respect goes a long way.

Wow jehovas witnesses where on Hitlers shitlist as well???

hmm maybee he was an underachiever lol toungue in cheek of course, i really appreciate their knocks on the door at 8am on sunday morning in the middle of no-where

Edited September 26, 2011 by incognito

[mutant]

hey

sapito got it. LOL, I laughed when I read it! I thought Torsten implied I had mixed the clones up , due to smoking a certain herb, it didn't cross my mind he meant the virus can be transmitted through tobacco and/or smoking and handling cacti. So the viruses are entering the plant through fresh cuts and/or other fresh damage no??

Sorry for the misunderstanding, lol.

ok here are the pics. there are 2 types of conditions here. the one the circular, I think I have seen it in the past, but not particularly intense. But it is alarming now on that ALF [oz] pachanoi

only the the pachanoi "2" clone [hey, shouldn't we name this clone something else, btw? it does look like PC a bit] is the one with marks that look like the ones here. It has been propagated 2 times [3 plants in total] and I think all cuts are infected..

the circulars are on another cactus

and pachanoi "2"

whatta think?

Edited September 26, 2011 by mutant

[Gunter]

Looks identical to what I have seen in my own collection in one or two specimens, it certainly looks like virus, but what viruses? It is very hard to say.

I have both those types of cosmetic dmage and it could be two distinct viruses.

It could come from someone who handles tobacco, or from some pest type vector.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Gunter

[mutant]

I dont know much, but the circular pattern is very much distinct from the random blotches one.

other than that shit happens. its just a virus. you know mammals developed the placenta because of a virus!

[Evil Genius]

Its alright with Mr. Pink, we talked and decided to leave our dispute behind for the sake of this thread. Its more important than personal disputes.

Looks identical to what I have seen in my own collection in one or two specimens, it certainly looks like virus, but what viruses?

Can help you with that. The list only consists of the infections that are known. There may be more that are asympthomatic or unknown. Also its possible that a certain virus can jump from one family to another. Will provide more info about the diffrent virals later:

Cactus spp.

Cactus 2 Carlavirus + mild tobamovirus

Carnegia Gigantea

Saguaro Cactus Carmovirus

Cereus spp.

Cactus x Potexvirus

Echinocereus procumbens

Cactus x Potexvirus

Echinopsis spp.

Cactus x Potexvirus

Epiphyllum spp.

Cactus x Potexvirus

Ferrocactus acanthodes

Cactus x Potexvirus

Opuntia engelmanii

Sammons Opuntia tobamovirus

Opuntia monacantha (Droopy prickly pear)

Cactus x Potexvirus

Opuntia spp.

Sammons Opuntia tobamovirus

Peireskia sacharosa

Cactus x Potexvirus

Schlumberegera bridgesii

Cactus x Potexvirus

zygocactus spp.

Cactus x potexvirus

zygocactus truncatus

Zygocactus (Montana) x potexvirus

Zygocactus x Schlumbergera

Zygocactus x Potexvirus

Edited September 26, 2011 by Evil Genius

[Evil Genius]

I collected this info from books and it took me some time so please enjoy. If your interested in this kind of stuff, check out the VIDE Project. I also have heaps of additional information about ALL Virals that occur in plants so please feel free to ask me if you need any more information about regular plant virals. But i can only provide info about specific plants or virals, otherwise it would just be too much.

Cactus x Potexvirus

Reported 1958 in cultivated cacti in Germany.

Hosts: See above

Infection is by mechanical innoculation, by grafting, contact between plants but not by seed.

Occurs worldwide in cultivated cacti but was also found in native cacti in the US.

Symptoms: Plants are usually infected symptomlessly. Infection can only be found out with the use of other suspectible and unsuspectible plants like Amaranthis, Gomphrena and Chenopodium. If someone is interested in more info about other plants that can get it, just let me know. There are many.

The virus can be found in all parts of the host plant.

Cactus 2 Carlavirus

Found 1958 in cultivated cacti in Germany.

Hosts:

Cultivated Cacti, no suspicious symptoms. Symptomless systematic infection.

Transmission and infection is by mechanical innoculation.

Saguaro Cactus Carmovirus

First found in Carnegia Gigantea in Arizona, 1972.

Hosts: Carnegia Gigantea & Chamaecereus Silvestrii (

Latent Infection

Transmission and infection is by mechanical innoculation.

Virus can be found in cactus buds, flowers and fruit.

Sammons Opuntia Tobamovirus

First found in Opuntia Engelmanii in Arizona. USA, 1961.

Hosts: Opuntia Engelmanii and other Opuntias.

Latent Infection

Spreads in the US.

Transmission and Infection is by mechanical innoculation.

Zygocactus (montana) x Potexvirus

Found in Zygocactus truncatus in Missoula, 1975.

Symptoms: Zygocactus truncatus - reddening of the pads

Transmission and Infection is by mechanical innoculation.

Zygocactus x Potexvirus

First found in Zygocactus x Schlumbergera hybrids in Germany, 1969.

Hosts: Zygocactus x Schlumbergera Hybrids

Symptomless

Spreads in Europe. But is probably more widespread.

Transmission occurs by mechanical innoculation.

Tobacco mild green mosaic tobamovirus

First found in Nicotiana glauca in the canary Islands.

Symptoms are diffrent on each plant. Mostly bright yellow leaf mosaic. ringspots, and cupping, plants stunted.

Transmitted in nature without the help a vector. Transmission is by mechanical innocultaion, is by grafting but not by seed.

Spreads worldwide, mostly because of the increased availability of nictioana leaves.

Virus are found in all parts of the infected plant.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Evil Genius

[bℓσωηG]

whatta think?

mutant it looks exactly like my infected photo started off as...

[mutant]

yeah, but the circular one is different , no ??