Atropa Belladonna WHERE ART THOU!?

[Evil Genius]

The Chance that you, or other people just like you who do´t care about the species or alkaloids they ingest are going to die is likely.Honestly! I don´t want to be the one who gives you the concept for that hara-kiri and i assume others won´t too. That´s not because ít´s something personal or because somebody around doesn´t like you. If somebody would have told you to ingest highly toxic or even deadly plants, you´d have probably ingested them too without further asking. I don´t want to father you but you can´t expect others to be part of your personal failures. Besides, your intoxication could be bad for this forum too. Please try to understand all the work and knowledge some people are inserting here. They don´t like to see their work damaged or even destroyed by people who don´t care about the aftermath triggered by such posts. Other Newbies could take a leaf out of your book; you are not a good role model.

[ 23. August 2005, 13:19: Message edited by: Evil Genius ]

[-YT-]

Nice post Evil Genius

I think most newbies first posts are usually something along the lines of this or where to get shrooms, lsa etc

Shit i even remember my 1st post lol i think T might even, but the point is most come here to spread knowledge and info and others to look for alternatives to get "high" somewhere along the line attitudes change or not...

There is no need for personal attacks on People who are trying to inform and possibly protect yourself and others from harm, and continue the survival of this forum and others like it in the community.

Hajuu i really hope you stick around there is heaps of great info around if you take the time to look, and everyone here are actually very genuine ppl. I hope you find what it is your looking for

[psycho0]

i 4get where i heard it but isnt mescaline a good antidote to atropine poisoning??

[psycho0]

Hajuu:

I was lost in hallucination for around 12 hours. Nothing of note happened. Slight memory loss, but vague recollection of the entire time.

u r very lucky tropane drugs can have u 'tripping' for up to 7 days!

and once from a brug trip i didnt fully

mentally recover for a full year!

many dangers in reckless use of these plants!!

[Tryptameanie]

I think prompt hospitalisation is the best idea in cases of serious tropane poisoning,

make sure airways are not obstructed and give artificial respiration if needed until an ambulance arrives.

If you are very far from hospital, give activated charcoal, and benzodiazepines if seizures develop.

At hospital they will probably give cardiovascular support and, in serious cases,

physostigmine (a cholinesterase inhibitor which will selectively antagonize the effect).

Giving physostigmine outside hospital is not reccomended.

I would definitely not reccomend giving opioids or mescaline, which will both likely make things worse (the suggestion above that opium is the "physiological antidote" is wrong and probably derives mainly from the opposite effects on pupil sizes).

Remember that tropanes may not be the sole cause cause of unidentified Solanaceae poisoning, and may not be even involved at all, as many other types of toxins including steroids and glycosides are found in the family (eg. as pointed out above, Hajuu was probably at risk of solanine not tropane poisoning, for which the symptoms and treatment are different).

[apothecary]

As soon as I can, I plan on trying a datura antidote consisting of activated charcoal (to stop further absorption) and concentrated 20x of borago officinalis (or similar cholinergics, to stop current anti-cholinergic effects).

I reckon it may work. Have to talk to some people first.

EDIT: Uh also, sorry Tryptameanie, but I think morphine is actually given in some cases for tropane poisoning, and the reduction of pupil dilation is used to measure how much more the patient needs.

[ 24. August 2005, 07:34: Message edited by: apothecary ]

[Tryptameanie]

Oh, sorry then!

What toxic effect(s) does morphine reverse?

I'm not sure home-therapy with cholinergics is a good idea.

The problems with overshoot hypercholinergic activity are potentially more serious than the original tropane poisoning.

I've seen reccomendations that physostigmine not be given as first aid, even by medical professionals in an ambulance, only in a hospital setting.

Certainly it should not be a substitute for hospitalisation if life/health is in danger.

[Benzedrine]

Hmmm mixing an opiate with a tropane doesn't sound right to me. I've heard of that mixture being done recreationally in the opiate community and called "twilight dreaming" or similar. It's supposed to far stronger then either individually.

Oh and it seems amazing to me that this person didn't just go searching for khat. This does however make me feel better about my younger days of trying to smoke or drink teas of roman wormwood.

[Shroom-Aura]

 

quote:

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Originally posted by Torsten:

 

Almost every year something like that happens in one country or another - last year it was NZ, maybe this year it will be Aus/Perth? There is always some moron who spoils it for the rest of us.

 

[/QB]

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What happened last year in New Zealand? I have only heard of the german teenager that cut off his genitals with a hedge clipper after ingesting brugmansia. After reading that article It had confirmed my descision to stay from it and other tropane like plants.

[Torsten]

Last year a youth ingested Datura seeds, got butt naked and climbed onto the roof of a house with a rolled up newspaper in hand. he then proceeded to play pirates, using the newspaper as his telescope.

Various media stories also said he was terrorising a neighbourhood before the pirate episode. It doesn't really matter what he did, but how the media portrays it.

in the search for the story I found a cute cartoon (with a grammatical error):

[Tryptameanie]

Benz- the term I've heard used for the effects of the tropane/opiate combo is "twighlight sleep/state", originally used in reference not to recreational consumption, but to use as an pseudo-anaesthetic and amnesic during surgical procedures and childbirth.

I understand that in the intended state the patient is semi-conscious, able to respond to the surgeon and to maintain respiration,

but is insensitive to pain and unable to form new memories, (hence won't recall the procedure afterwards).

The use of this combo carried a much lower risk of death than ether and chloroform.

The amnesic effect is useful for repeated procedures that are crucial to the patients life or quality-of-life, but that are so unpleasant that they may be unable to make themselves submit to a second round.

Probably the most common situation in modern practice in which tropane amnesia is used is chemotherapy of cancer.

Chemo drugs usually produce immediate extreme nausea and vomiting, and need to be administered several times to get a reasonable chance of killing all the tumour cells.

Even when the chemo is likely to produce complete remission of an otherwise soon-to-be fatal cancer, and the patient wants to go through with it, the strong aversive conditioning produced can stop them being able to take the tablet or submit to an injection.

Scopolamine is anti-emetic and amnesic, so when given before the chemo drug it both reduces the nausea (though not by much) and reduces the strength of the aversion produced.

As an aside, patients are often advised not to eat any foods they particularly enjoy prior to the injection, as a strong aversion to the last taste experienced before the onset of nausea occurs in the majority of people, and cannot be overcome by concious, rational thought.

For obvious evolutionary adaptive reasons, the connection between a taste and later nausea is particularly strong, easy to acquire and hard to extinguish.

A fair proportion are afterwards unable to stand the taste of peppermint, the flavouring in toothpaste.

Apoth- could you please indicate the sources which justify the use of morphine in tropane overdose?

Many of the major toxic effects are common to both drugs, including reduction/cessation of intestinal motility & of various secretions,

respiratory depression, sedation/confusion/delirium/ataxia etc,

and coma.

What dangerous/harmful effect of tropanes is the morphine meant to reverse?

The only explanation I can come up with is that the morphine might induce vomiting

Are you sure you don't mean apomorphine

(a non-opioid-agonist derivative of morphine used as an emetic)?

[apothecary]

Yeah I'm trying to find it, not having much luck.

I thought I read it here:

http://dwb.unl.edu/Teacher/NSF/C10/C10Link...l.com/index.htm

But can't seem to find it on there. I've been doing a lot of reading on tropanes, and don't keep a history on my browser, so it's hard going back and finding things I don't record. I'll keep looking though.

EDIT:

Will this do for now while I keep looking:

 

quote:

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Opiate receptors exert effects on synaptic transmission by presynaptically modulating the release of neurotransmitters, including

acetylcholine

, norepinephrine, dopamine, serotonin, and substance P.

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(emphasis mine)

 

quote:

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Cholinesterase inhibitors act by poisoning acetylcholinesterase, which decomposes acetylcholine in the synapse and deactivates it...

 

Anticholinergic agents block acetylcholine at its receptors.

 

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[ 31. August 2005, 12:26: Message edited by: apothecary ]