A new way of using Khat?

[Khatman]

I was warned about not posting this because of the potential illegality of Khat. As far as I know from my research on government websites Khat is NOT illegal in Western Australia, where I am. I was shown several Khat trees near to where I work. I tried some Khat and found the effects enjoyable but there was a major problem - I also found the taste of Khat repulsive! After a few sessions I couldn’t bear to even smell it. I think you can get less bitter varieties but I didn’t have access to them. I tried using very young leaves or dunking them in honey but with no luck. Now, the action of chewing Khat manually breaks down cells and dissolves the active chemicals in relatively cool saliva. It occurred to us that grinding the leaves in a blender might do the same thing. We did some experimenting and developed the following method. I'd like to know if others have come up with this method independently:

1) Take two large shopping bags of Khat leaves.

2) On the bush leaves get dirty so rinse the leaves in a bucket of COOL water.

3) Stuff a blender half full of leaves and cover the leaves in COLD water from the fridge (you will need to chill down a few bottles) and add half a lemon (we do this because apparently the active chemicals are more soluble and stable in an acidic solution).

4) Blend the leaves on high speed for a minute or two (we assume that a good long blend will thoroughly break down the cells and release the chemicals).

5) Pour the blended mixture into a fine metal kitchen sieve (you will need to mush in through with your hands) discard the coarse leaf material and catch the juice in a bucket. You will now have an opaque green fluid.

6) Place the fluid in the fridge for one or two hours and the green stuff will settle out leaving a clear brown fluid on top. Siphon the brown fluid off into a new container.

Wehave tried mixing this fluid 50:50 with Ginger Ale and fruit juice, as well as with a small splash of lemonade and cordial. The resulting drinks are actually not too bad, although it is a bit of an acquired taste. It typically takes about 5 or 6 large glasses to get a good effect. If is a bit of a long process but it is definitely worth the effort!

[AndyAmine.]

Firstly, let me state that I do not advocate the consumption/ingestion of Khat/Catha.Edulis or its alkaloids in Australia in anyway shape or form except by those with legal permission to do so.

However, for those that do have permission and are intent on making a water based liquid extract let me suggest that you may want to try using some cold alcohol like a high Conc. Vodka instead of plain cold water, then you can let it evaporate at room temp in front of an oscillating fan with plenty of ventilation (thereby avoiding heat) until you get down to the water.

This would reduce the amount of liquid to be consumed considerably.

Obviously you could keep going and reduce it to a crude resin or something similar if one wanted to.

[ 24. May 2005, 06:13: Message edited by: AndyAmine. ]

[Tryptameanie]

 

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Obviously you could keep going and reduce it to a crude resin

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I don't think you can actually. Cathinone is renowned for it's instability and would probably be mostly degraded by the time you got to a resin (and certainly soon after if you stored it in air at room temp). You could try vaccuum distillation (preferably with cold, slightly acidified methanol as the solvent)to quickly evap at low oxygen pressure, then immediate consumption or quick transfer to a cold, dark freezer.

If you find the taste unbearable I guess you don't have the option, but chewing really is the best way to do it, both because there is no delay between breaking the leaf and absorbtion and because it can be absorbed via the oral mucosa, avoiding degradation in the stomach and intestines and first-pass metabolism in the liver.

Funny about peolple's different tastes... I find qat to be quite pleasant tasting, even if the older leaves are a bit bitter, while the very thought of kava makes my stomach turn ( I could no longer drink it without throwing up), though others say it's delicious.

[Khatman]

My mate thinks the Khat trees we harvest taste fine where as i can't stand them. So is suspect individual preference comes into it. Although I also suspect that there are varieties that taste better as well. I don't believe drinking it as "Khat Punch" causes many problems in terms of degradation in your stomach, it still has quite a good effect.

[apothecary]

Cathinone is very unstable, like Tryptameanie said...

However, as far as I'm aware, the stimulant effect is due to cathine, which is quite stable.

[psycho0]

there's a clear 95% alcohol available now which could b substituted for the vodka!

[Torsten]

The main stimulant effect and most of the euphoria is due to cathinone - the unstable alkaloid. Some minor stimulation is also due to the stable cathine.

Evaporating an extract would not work due to the time taken and the instability of cathinone.

I like this clear juice idea> Thanks for posting it.

[smogs]

did u try the unsyphoned stuff too?

i really dont think khat is bad at all... its like bitter letuce... not very bitter at all... the texture/sensation it makes in your mouth is pretty unpleasant tho heh heh

u think khat is bad... try chewing on fresh kratom (well obviously you cant in oz now)

i can eat nasty stuff but the after taste of kratom really got me... same with calea

that bitter tang *shudder*

[AndyAmine.]

Yes, I forgot how unstable it was, thank you for catching me on that.

[Khatman]

I think the taste problem is caused by tannins (I have done research into tannins for my PhD). We did try drinking the fresh fluid before letting it settle but it still tasted bad and it also makes your shit go green and fibrous. I don’t think it is actually bad for you, it probably actually gives you a good dose of fiber and antioxidants, but it is still unpleasant. I think a lot of the tannins may be bound to the fiber and if you let the solution settle I think most of the tannins will be removed.

While I have the chance - We are thinking of buying some Khat seed or seedlings from Shaman Australis. What varieties of Khat are the best (both in terms of chemical content and ease of cultivation)?

[smogs]

well recomended the most are narrow leaf 4 because it is both intoxicating as well as stimulating... also red leaf is recomended

this is from heresay i cant comment on them personally

[Torsten]

yes, I'd mostly grow narrow leaf for effect and flavour..... but the red leaf is easier

[Happy Cadaver]

Narrow leaf is the one with all the love of leafy in its guts, never strike the cow before dinner.

Edited April 17, 2007 by darcy

[Sacrelegion]

hey this is an unrelated question on khat.. but if i were to get a seedling or seeds, wouldnt i hafta wait a few years for the plant to get big enough for me to take the leaves without hurting the plant/slowing its growth?

[Khatman]

You will have to wait a while, i have only been growing Khat my self for a two years. I have two cuttings and my plants still haven't got enough for us to use. Recently we decided that if it will take 1 plant 10 years to produce enough to use regularly it would take 10 plants 1 year. I don't know if this is logical or true but we have recently taken about twenty cuttings and suckers and planted them.

I would be interested to know how well Khat will grow in Demark, WA. Are you growing any? I am not sure if it will be too cold for them down there.

[Torsten]

our 3 year old plants regularly get a haircut. if it takes 10 years then you are either not in the right climate or not growing it right.

[Darklight]

Torsten:

our 3 year old plants regularly get a haircut. if it takes 10 years then you are either not in the right climate or not growing it right.

I think mine took about 8 years to get to size, most of those without being hedged for any reason.

Actually I have two plants of the narrow leaved strain, planted in the same yard a year apart. One is 4m and is doing splendidly. The other one would be lucky to be pushing 2m, and its nothing like as healthy. I figure the one doing worst has too much shade, and is affected by being on the drip line ( and the fruit drop zone ) for a guava- that's the only difference. Soil is identical

[jasemateau]

how many leaves do the arabs eat to get a spin?

or grams of fresh narrow leaf?

i mean sheeeeesh 3 years thats alot a foliage!!!!

[ 26. May 2005, 22:49: Message edited by: jasemateau ]

[Khatman]

Sorry, I just picked the figure of 10 years arbitrarily. Although i would be surprised if it took less than 3 or 4 years for Khat to get to a harvestable size. I notice you are in Byron Bay, Torsten. Notice that we are in Perth, our soil is shitter and we get all our rain at the time of year Khat needs it the least.

[Rev]

Actually khat grows just as well in perth as over here provided you address the soil nutriemt issue

the deep sands and good drainag suit it and i think it gets its feet in nicely

re denmark

will prob be ok if you keep it in a frost free place (near the coast) and treat like any subtropical fruit tree in the SW

look up avocado culture in marginal climates

shelter and microclimates help a lot.

the Kenyan guys i met (in perth while harcesting khat) said they start harvesting from trees when they are 4 years old.

they rent boundary land between coffee plots up in the mountains and sell the khat in the towns or export for good $$.

[oxydiser]

Hey Khatman, would you care to divulge the location of the catha trees around your work? I've been looking around Perth for a while for the mythical catha to take some cuttings from, with no luck... or maybe I have seen some and just not recognised them?? What strain is common around Perth?

[Prophet]

 

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I was warned about not posting this because of the potential illegality of Khat. As far as I know from my research on government websites Khat is NOT illegal in Western Australia,

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If they were going to make khat illegal it would not make sense. They might as well make coffee illegal. Coffee is more harsh on the system than khat and I prefer khat any day.

 

quote:

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I tried some Khat and found the effects enjoyable but there was a major problem - I also found the taste of Khat repulsive! After a few sessions I couldn’t bear to even smell it. I think you can get less bitter varieties but I didn’t have access to them.

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you just need to build up your bitter tolerance. I do this by avoiding sweet foods as much as i can and trying to eat bitter foods whenever i can. Seems to work for me.

[Leo^]

You got a good point there Prophet. I found khat rather tasty after not eating chocolate or processed sugar for a long time, then when I had some again the khat and a lot of my herbal teas tasted a big off. Stay fresh and healthy and it all works much better