gilligan Posted February 6, 2011 Ahhhh. Gotchya... Sorry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vual Posted February 7, 2011 Has everyone sent there own submission to the federal attorney general!! ???? Dont just count on getup, send in your own! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted February 7, 2011 There are some errors which could be corrected... Like what? I thought it was pretty good and fairly well customised for the political purpose that it needs to fulfil. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted February 7, 2011 On two of the other pages which had nothing to do with khat, the question posed was "why would the government want to ban Catha edulis" or something along those lines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ferret Posted February 7, 2011 So.. people raving hysterically about how the government is about to nuke entire species of Acacia in the wild- umm no that is not the point. It adds no weight to your argument and kinda makes you sound crazy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted February 7, 2011 Who's that comment aimed at? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ferret Posted February 8, 2011 yea to be reasonable theres only one freakout like that in this thread, but most threads i've checked out around various forums and the getup comments, often make me feel like this dude Its not even possible, what are they going to cut down every dmt containing plant in Australia?? including there own brains? are they going to cut down the native Acacias? they would also have to cut down the native sassafras trees... but i should probabably just chill out and not post whilst grumpy.. ignore me i'll let you get back on topic! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazonian Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Grumpy, that time of the month is it Ferret? . But in all seriousness, What is your take on all this ?. I get the impression, you, along with others, believe that it won't happen. Lets hope (pray) not. We need to have a plan , just in case. You know what the Government is like. Edit:, tell ya what ferret, if the government try this Ban on Nature's Gifts, and fail, then I'll let you cook us Bean Chili Con Carne at your place . Deal? Edited February 8, 2011 by Amazonian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted February 8, 2011 Let me just put this into perspective. I don't think for a moment the govvy will cut down all acacias or do similar stupid stuff. In Qld all DMT contianing plants are already illegal, but you don't see the state govvy cutting all of their acacias down. There are plenty more such examples. The aim of this legislation is to make things easy for law enforcement. At the moment they have to prove that the cactus garden is being used to make mescaline, but with the new laws they no longer need that proof. Quite the contrary, it is now up to YOU to prove that you were not making mescaline. And this is where the problem lies. I know lots of people who take drugs, have cacti, maybe even have cactus extraction manuals downloaded [maybe as part of a file set or a chemistry book] - BUT they have never extracted cacti nor do they intend to. In front of a court they would have a very hard time proving their innocence. In essence these laws just create better access for law enforcement and strip you of your rights. A cop will be able to enter your house and perform an unannounced search on the basis of you having a 'drug plant' in your garden. ie, if you have any of the plants on that list in your garden this will give them probable cause for entering the premises even without a warrant. That's the crux of this problem. There are other parts of the legislation that are similar. For example it lists Palladium in the precursor section. Every coin collector and every rich person with whitegold jewellery has enough palladium in their possession to put them away for years under the precursor laws. over 90% of the people going to court for palladium posession will be people who were making drugs or intending to make drugs, but would you like to be in the remaining percentage? Law enforcement constantly use unrelated laws to get what they want. After spotting a bong on your table they might point out to you that you can either go to jail for the 10 brugmansias in your yard or you can give up your pot supplier. Or the 1g of personal changa/dmt in your pocket suddenly becomes a commercial manufacturing charge because you also happen to have 10 psychotria plants in your yard. Also don't forget that the legal system is in itself often the punishment. I see more and more cases where ridiculous drug charges are pushed right up to the day of court and then dropped. By this time your parents have had to put their house up for bail, you have spent a week in remand, and your solicitor has sucked 10K of funds you had to borrow to try and keep you out of jail. And in the end the prosecution simply drops the charge or presents no evidence against you. Every year for the last 10 years I have seen a case like that in my circle of acquaintances. This makes it so important that we do not surrender our rights just because we feel the laws don't really apply to us anyway. They do apply to us. And they will be used to ruin some lives of people here - some of whom will be innocent. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ferret Posted February 8, 2011 amazonian, no i'm not blaise about this proposal at all. T pretty much sums it up right there ^^^^ I'd imagine even a qualified botanist with, say, a 5 year old dmt possession conviction, would want to be veeeery careful which plants he takes herbarium specimens and cuttings of during his field trips... a cutting even without roots=cultivation, take a shitload due to low strike rate=commercial cultivation. sitting in an esky on the back seat of your car next to your plant press. before you've even had time to identify them! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazonian Posted February 8, 2011 Reading back over the comments, I realize that it is the severity of it that people are doubting (ie,nuke plants ,cut down all Acacia etc), not the fact that the Government could make these items illegal. I understand their point now. I just can't believe that the Government has such power over our lives. How dare they. Maybe we will need to start a riot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted February 8, 2011 While the some of comments of GetUp might be lacking intelligence, there are many comments which do support the campaign suggestion, from people who belong to a broad array of professions and walks of life. A rebellion or revolution is more in order than a riot Amazonian. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted February 8, 2011 I think we have to accept that GetUp is not going to take this on. They are a largely union funded organisation that is not likely to damage the labor party unless it is on something that suits the left labor faction. Whether GetUp gets another 1000 votes does not matter now. It will make no difference to the proposed laws. The important thing now is to make submissions. many submissions. each submissions is counted as a single submission regardless of whether it is signed by one or by 100 people, so it is better if you can get all 100 people to send a submission. The submissions can be quite similar, so feel free to use one of the several templates that are floating around FB-land. I might try to post one up here too. Write your submissions NOW! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tripsis Posted February 8, 2011 I agree, they are not going to take it up. Very disappointing, but such is life. I've not come across a single template on FB yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted February 8, 2011 I've not come across a single template on FB yet. the two I have seen are both too waffley to make the points that need to be made, which is why I don't recommend them at this point. but better them than nothing and a bit of variety is probably good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
synchromesh Posted February 8, 2011 A rebellion or revolution is more in order than a riot Amazonian. Unnecessary violence aside, several methods of action are always better than one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazonian Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) I might try to post one up here too. Write your submissions NOW! I have sent links via Emails around the traps and spread the news through word of mouth .I would like to make a submission but am not confident enough with my writing skills to produce something worth submitting. I would appreciate it if there was something posted here so as i have something to go by. The member 'madhouses visites', posted a submission that i could use (permission given) http://www.shaman-au...pic=26539&st=25 post #38. If i was to submit more than one letter, would it need to be different, are they actually going to be read ? Is it best to Email submissions or post them ? Or both? Edited February 8, 2011 by Amazonian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted February 8, 2011 amazonian have a look HERE for help with the submission process. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazonian Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) ^I have visited this site several times and sent its link to garden shops and Butterfly houses and clubs etc... ,but never actually read the submission page. . You know, i just thought that Getup would do all the work ( well most of it) for us . What if we made up flyers and put posters around gardening centers and stuff, would that help? Edited February 9, 2011 by Amazonian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yeti101 Posted February 9, 2011 What if we made up flyers and put posters around gardening centers and stuff, would that help? I say go for it! Post your potential flyers/posters here so others can spread the word. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
incognito Posted February 9, 2011 what might surprise is that alot of gardeners are quite conventional, who would more than likely support the ban. scary times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted February 9, 2011 what might surprise is that alot of gardeners are quite conventional, who would more than likely support the ban. scary times. not surprised at all. there has been quite some resistance to the anti campaign. however, this is usually based on misunderstandings. eg, those opposing usually do not grasp the scale of this law and generally convert once they do. But it's not just the scale... it's also the type of plant collectors it affects. Some nursery operators quickly changed their minds when I pointed out all the lines they stock that might be affected. ie, they generally think that because it is about drug it can't affect them if they are anti drugs. once they grasp that this goes much further they tend to come around pretty quickly. just don't mention ephedra, khat or peote to them. Go for wattles, phalaris [ribbon] grass, opuntias, mammillarias, reeds, iceplants/sunroses, powderpuffs, swainsonia, pandanus and evodia. These are big lines for commercial nurseries and really bring home the impact the laws may have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unseen4ce Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) This is getting bad, get-up are worthless, free-man is not strong enough to oppose new draconian statutes. Am I going to have to go through my garden and decide about who to save and who shall have to die (I am only talking about aussie natives who are going to have to be removed). Save a mass-awakening, it looks like we're screwed. People are in a state of demoralisation and won't wake-up 'till the "police"/thugs put a boot in their face and they're dragged off to prison for some victimless crime. Demoralisation is explained below: Here is a vid on the state of humanity and why we're fucked, I told my family and they couldn't care-less. Seems I am surrounded by the living dead. Soon our ability to protest will be removed (Australian officials recently attended *another* UN forum on censoring the internet and expressed a strong desire to do so) if things keep going this way. We'll be targeted first; and then all the fuckwits who thought "bloody hippies" while drinking their beers will start whinging as soon as their football or some other worthless interest are targeted. I can't wait now, to see them, exposed and stupid. "I told you so". Edited February 9, 2011 by unseen4ce Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazonian Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) I say go for it! Post your potential flyers/posters here so others can spread the word. When i say posters, don't imagine Billboards, though, wouldn't that be Great. I don't have the latest computer software or gallons of printer ink ,so, for me, my posters would consist of some brightly colored A4 sheets of paper with bold black text. I am sure some of you guys have access to (free) printing at your workplace and could fancy up an A4 sheet with some flashy pictures of wattles, cacti etc.... . The information on that sheet needs to be fairly brief and to the point. The point of the posters/flyers would be to get others to make a submission. It could also have those partly cut sections at the bottom of the sheet to tear off ,with a website address to www.gardenfreedom.com , It needs a title which is immediately attention grabbing. If we all make ,like, 10 or something, that would help ,surely . As i have already said, my writing skills are not the best, so any help/ideas would be great. Time is of the essence. Edited February 9, 2011 by Amazonian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazonian Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Well, this is what i had in mind. .... . I typed it up in Microsoft Word and it looks a lot better from there. The page lay out ,as I copied and paste,is not the same here. What do you think of the title? How's the wording? .What am i missing? I need to work out how to do sideways Text on the bottom of the page to add The garden freedom link so as anyone interested can tear that off to google later. PLANTS ARE BEING BLACK LISTED The Federal attorney General wants to expand the list of prohibited plants. This will include many native and exotic Wattles, many common cacti and many other ornamental plants. If this goes ahead, then we will be classified as criminals for just having any of these plants on our property. You can help by making a Submission to the Minister at [email protected] Before 11th March 2011. The Government already has enough of a say in our lives, so keep them out of our garden, For Nature's Sake. www.gardenfreedom.com Edited February 10, 2011 by Amazonian Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
