Refusing to answer police questioning

[Distracted]

Twice in the last year i've been approached by police while doing nothing wrong. I supply my name and address but when they ask me what i'm doing or where i'm going I refuse to answer their questions in order to protect my innocence.

They interpret this as me acting suspicious and say they then have the power to search me, while searching I tell them they do not have my permission to go through my things but they say that doesn't matter.

How can I prevent this?

Thanks.

[mescalito]

The matrix has you......................................................................................................

I'd start undressing as quick as you can and say wanna search here big boy?

Jus kiddin,I'd say you're under suspicion like it or not,You'd have a fair idea why

Basically tell 'em you're going for a walk,no destination but you'll be home at the address supplied for dinner because mum's making dinner tonight.

Then ask "Why" "Am I under arrest?" then say ok I gotta keep going then,thank you and bye.Walk away.

Harassment dude.

[Amazonian]

mum's making dinner tonight.

 

Isn't it my mums making 'Chicken tonight'?. I go collecting weeds that grow around here. Every time i do, i want the cops to stop me and ask "whats in the bag?", cause i would love to say ... Weed. . The police are intimidating . I don't see what business it is of theirs as to where you are going and have been. ( unless of course you are behaving inappropriately or carrying).

[faustus]

be a smart arse, and they might just write a comment or two about you in your central names index.

then, next time, if you DO have something to hide, they may just give you more attention and grief than you'd wish

[ref1ect1ons]

I posted this elsewhere basically never answer thier questions unless they tell you what the problem is (why they stopped you). If they say "do you understand" ALWAYS say "no". Ask them what capacity they are acting under to establish juristiction, also do not consent to anything and do not represent yourself as a "Mr.", a strawman that they have jurstiction over.

So the fuzz approach.

police "take your hands out-of your pockets" very direct, trying to take power over me.

me "I am a soveriegn man, I do not consent to anything"

a little shicked police "ha, what's a soveriegn man" smirk

me"look it up, it's not my job to educate you" there was also some tit tat where he tried to get a name unsucessfully.

police"where are you from"

me"here"

police"whats your address"

me"i dont have to give you my address unless you tell me what the problem is, understand" always best to throw a couple 'understand' in there.

Bit of riff raf, female police officer bitching, them driveling on... about break-ins, I reply that "any intelligent individual can see that i have not stolen anything"

More drivel

me"stop, you're going to tell me what the problem is now or im free to go"

male police officer tried to drivel on again, trying to say the opposite which is a lie. I turn to female and say

me"are you acting as a peace officer or as a.."

she cuts me off "im acting as a person"

as soon as she said that I walked away, turned around and said "go fuck yourselves"

continued to walk as they got in their police car, as they drove past I spat in their direction and they waved.

I won. yes i did tell them to get nodded. No it wasn't freeman techniques but it does show that you should NEVER give police any information unless they confirm that it is as part of their duty as a peace officer, otherwise, if there is no case against you, you're free to go and dont have to answer any of their questions.

I made it very clear that he serves me and that he was wasting my time(i said this directly during some of the riff raff), I also made it clear that I, as a soveriegn, have more power then the commercial entity whoes policies he blindly enforces. Made clear when I asked under what capacity they were acting.

Yes some wimpy nay sayers will say "next time they'll... you were just lucky", but what do they know.

[synchromesh]

Without just cause, consent of search and/or admission of guilt, the police don't really have a case.

Distracted - Did you ask them why they wanted your details? Did you give them consent for the searches? Did you ask them if you were being charged with anything?

Many cops love to intimidate. Unless you show a cop that you know your rights, he'll more than likely try and take advantage of you. You live and learn though. And when you do finally get to beat a cop at his own game, it's one of the best feelings in the world.

Edited October 9, 2010 by synchromesh

[Magicdirt]

Twice in the last year i've been approached by police while doing nothing wrong. I supply my name and address but when they ask me what i'm doing or where i'm going I refuse to answer their questions in order to protect my innocence.

They interpret this as me acting suspicious and say they then have the power to search me, while searching I tell them they do not have my permission to go through my things but they say that doesn't matter.

How can I prevent this?

Thanks.

 

You can prevent it by driving a $100 thousand dollar car and wearing a 3 piece suit. That way they'll only bother you if you get caught with your fingers in the till.

If you don't have lot's of money you're certain to be a criminal in police minds.

Where I live all they need is reasonable suspicion or so they say. Reasonable suspicion translates to anyone who can't afford a good lawyer.

[drgibbon]

Twice in the last year i've been approached by police while doing nothing wrong. I supply my name and address but when they ask me what i'm doing or where i'm going I refuse to answer their questions in order to protect my innocence.

They interpret this as me acting suspicious and say they then have the power to search me, while searching I tell them they do not have my permission to go through my things but they say that doesn't matter.

How can I prevent this?

Thanks.

 

I'd go mescalito's path myself. Ask me what I'm doing or where I'm going, I'd just tell them. I'm going to the stops or whatever. Even if I was on my way to rob a bank (!?) I'm still just going to say I'm walking home/shops whatever you like. Doesn't really matter. I don't see the need for aggravation when there's nothing really going down.

[drgibbon]

You know they are probably judging you on your appearance. I remember when I was a bit younger I used to look pretty ragged, had my hair grown out and all ripped up clothes. Anyway, one night with my gf at the time we needed some condoms, so we made a trip to the 24hour pharmacy, (which was also known to be frequented by drug users to get needles).

The cops must have been staking the place out, looking for "druggy" types, because after we'd been in and got the things and were driving home, we got pulled over pretty much straight away and they started bugging us with all these questions about what we're doing. I said we're going home. "To do what?" "Not much" "What have you got in the brown bag?" So I play along a little, they must have thought they got a couple of heroin addicts.. eventually I hand the bag over with a bit of a grin.. "oh, oh right ok".

And off we went...

[Distracted]

I'd go mescalito's path myself. Ask me what I'm doing or where I'm going, I'd just tell them. I'm going to the stops or whatever. Even if I was on my way to rob a bank (!?) I'm still just going to say I'm walking home/shops whatever you like. Doesn't really matter. I don't see the need for aggravation when there's nothing really going down.

 

I trust a random police officer less than I trust a taxi driver and I don't let any cabbie know where I live.

You should never tell a police officer where you've been or where you're going and you should especially never lie to an officer about it.

What if the officer is pulling over your car because it's similar to one used for a robbery, and you just lied about your alibi? :/

This thread is the result of two altercations i've had with police officers, both of which there were no charges placed of course because i was doing nothing wrong, it's just the moment you treat a police officer like the dressed up stranger they are and refuse to follow their power game they start getting offended.

I've had my car defected twice in the past fortnight by a cop who hated the fact that I wouldn't answer his questions so he took it out on my car, blah

I just think it's bullshit that I can be deemed suspicious by doing something that every single resident should when confronted by the police, it wastes both my time and theirs.

I just wish there was a peice of paper I could give to any officer that tried talking to me that would let them know in a nice manner that I don't talk to strangers.

[drgibbon]

Yeah, I wasn't advocating lying in general, only if was on my way to do something bad I'd lie

I see what you're saying. I mean a cop is a stranger, but in our society they are granted the power to do certain things. Of course if you refuse to follow their game they will get offended. Think about it from the cops point of view. You pull someone over, and the guy you pull over won't do what you ask and wants to prove to you that he's in control and not you. All you get is struggle and aggravation. You gotta remember.. the cops don't know you, they would have to deal with a lot of shit, and yes I'm sure there are a lot of dickhead cops, but in a sense you're bringing some of the trouble on yourself as well.

If you really want to avoid it, just be friendly and polite when they pull you over.

[synchromesh]

Yeah, it all depends though man. What if the cop has a quota to feel, and he takes your politeness as a sign of weakness?

[ref1ect1ons]

They have no juristiction over a common man, they have contracts with tenix, and they want to trick you into forming a contract with them. So simply say that you do not wish to consent to their policies and be on your way. If they try to intimidate you, then you have to defend your intellectual freedom.

[Rabaelthazar]

If a cop's got a quota to fill and happens to be an asshole, it doesn't really matter what you do, he'll still stick it up you. The freeman spiel will piss him off and the defensive line will make you appear more suspicious. If you've done nothing wrong and you are polite and cooperative with the police, you'd have to have pretty bad luck to get nicked.

Most cops are not assholes, they're just people doing a job. Same as most people you pass in a dark alley are not muggers, even though that's probably your initial thought.

Think the best of people and most of the time you'll turn out to be right.

[drgibbon]

Yeah, it all depends though man. What if the cop has a quota to feel, and he takes your politeness as a sign of weakness?

 

I think statistically you'll do better in the long run by being civil. But yeah, I respect people standing up for something, I just think there's a time and place for it. A cop asking your name and where you're going to me isn't the place for such a stand. Original poster wanted to know how to avoid bad outcomes in these situations, and I would guess that the bad outcomes are in part a result of his own actions (his position might be valid in some sense, but from a practical point of view the actions aren't working too well).

Even if a cop is filling some quota, you've got to have broken the law. Maybe it happens, but I've not heard of people just being plucked off the street for literally no reason and jailed. Although I saw a pretty chilling video in another thread in America of a woman being tasered quite brutally, for no apparent reason other than to exercise power.

Now that was America. I personally think that part of the Aussie way is to be a bit cooler about things, bit more laid back. Giving cops the 'I don't respect your authority' stuff to me just adds to the tension and aggravation in our society, with no real justification for it. I dunno, I know it's a complex issue and there's no simple black and white, but if you hate on people you're going to get some of that negativity back. Increase the peace

[lofty86]

when i was 15 me and a mate were chroming in the park 2 cops aproached us, kicked the shit out of us arrested us charged us with creating a public nuisence and said in court we were fighting when they arrived and they had to break it up.

3 years later i was arrested for having a domestic with my boyfriend the police found gear and syringes on me since then ive had a HIV warning on my record (homosexual IV drug user)

a few times since then during police interactions they have started to get heavy handed that is untill they run a name check i always here through there scanner (possible HIV risk, history of violence and drug use) you would be suprised how fast they back off a lot of pigs are to scared to even approach me now they just sit in the car ask were im going and check i have no warrents, sadly they dont have to ask my name.

I dont have HIV and i havnt touched a pick in ages but i really dont mind the police thinking that if its gowing to stop them from violently harassing me.

[synchromesh]

My point was simply that politeness alone doesn't always work. Civility all the way.

If the police really do want us all to get along, then they have to realize that it's a two-way street. They have to start respecting our rights more, opposed to just treating them like they're a threat to theirs... Otherwise, this disconnect between us is just going to keep growing.

Even if a cop is filling some quota, you've got to have broken the law. Maybe it happens, but I've not heard of people just being plucked off the street for literally no reason and jailed.

Uh, this happens all the time... Haven't you ever heard of a Political Prisoner before?

[ref1ect1ons]

They are heartless/mindless thugs, they are DANGEROUS, the force recruits a certain kind to fill their "beat" positions. They are dangerous because they are armed and stupid, do not let them touch you, and do not tell them anything.

We can be civil but Hold on to your power!. Learn the game, play the game, or they will. And they will win.

for example:

1)Always ask if they understand, this forces them to give power to you. They will always answer "no" to this question as they know how to play the game, you should know too!. (never answer "yes" if a policeman asks if you understand, it is the equivalent of consenting to a contract)

2)Always ask what capacity they are acting, they may not even be acting as a peace officer at the time (as with my above post). If they are acting as a peace officer, learn what this means.

Edited October 11, 2010 by ref1ect1ons

[drgibbon]

Uh, this happens all the time... Haven't you ever heard of a Political Prisoner before?

 

People just driving/walking around in Australia are randomly getting picked up and taken in as political prisoners ???

They are heartless/mindless thugs, they are DANGEROUS, the force recruits a certain kind to fill their "beat" positions. They are dangerous because they are armed and stupid, do not let them touch you, and do not tell them anything.

[...]

We can be civil but Hold on to your power!. Learn the game, play the game, or they will. And they will win.

I'm not sure they're all stupid and dangerous, but what does "they will win" mean? If you tell a cop your name / address / where you're going or whatever, and that's it, did you "lose" ??

I mean look at lofty's story, if it's going to come down to violence, there's not much you can do about it (considering they have weapons). 15 years old and some police thugs beat you up, that's bullshit, but you can't argue your way out at the time. Like he said, in court they're just going to lie and no one will believe the 15 year olds doing 'soles in the park over the police. (Of course if someone was bashed by the police I think the victim should take them to court, but that's another thing).

Being defensive, refusing to answer questions, etc, well... that makes you look like you're hiding something. On the other hand, if you present as a rather uninteresting and law abiding citizen, you have far better chances. It works whether you're breaking the law or not, either way, you want to look like you've got nothing to hide. The defensive position would seem to generate the worst outcomes for either case (unwanted attention if you have broken the law, further unwarranted attention if you haven't broken the law).

[synchromesh]

No, I was talking about world-wide. If you were only talking about Australia, then you obviously didn't make that clear enough to me. Anyway, going back to your original statement (which is below), it is untrue that Australians can only be fined or arrested if they've done something wrong. And I present you with the following two cases which prove this:

Activist Padriac 'Paddy' Gibson lands payout after APEC arrest

Police ordered to pay $55,000 for wrongful arrest

Even if a cop is filling some quota, you've got to have broken the law. Maybe it happens, but I've not heard of people just being plucked off the street for literally no reason and jailed.

Edited October 12, 2010 by synchromesh

[drgibbon]

Ok, but the original poster is talking about his issues in Oz yea? Problems other countries have with their police force shouldn't effect how we view ours?

[synchromesh]

Ok, but the original poster is talking about his issues in Oz yea? Problems other countries have with their police force shouldn't effect how we view ours?

 

Don't give me that. Not when it's obvious that you were also talking about police in general...

Even if a cop is filling some quota, you've got to have broken the law. Maybe it happens, but I've not heard of people just being plucked off the street for literally no reason and jailed. Although I saw a pretty chilling video in another thread in America of a woman being tasered quite brutally, for no apparent reason other than to exercise power.

[Distracted]

I answer police questions I think deserve an answer I just never ever tell an officer where i've been, where i'm going or what i'm doing. Except one time once when an officer pulled me over about 500m before I got to work.

So far I haven't done anything wrong but it wastes both my time and the police's time when they do a warrant search and whatnot and not let me leave whilst they conduct 'an investigation'.

Lying to a police officer when you've done something bad is a big no no, why lie when you can simply not say a thing? Why should you help them prosecute you by giving them any information?

I'm thinking of printing off the page of our law that stated we didn't have to answer any questions that may lead to our prosecution in order to protect our innocence, so I can politely tell the next cop why I won't answer his questions.

btw I'm never aggressive to police or too much of a smart arse, i'm usually quite docile and relaxed.

Edited October 12, 2010 by Distracted

[drgibbon]

Don't give me that. Not when it's obvious that you were also talking about police in general...

 

Well, I was trying to draw a distinction between the two. I.e. things like that happen in US, but I've not heard of it here. Made sense to me at the time. Just a misunderstanding.

Edited October 12, 2010 by drgibbon

[ref1ect1ons]

"they will win" mean? If you tell a cop your name / address / where you're going or whatever, and that's it, did you "lose" ??

Obviously not, I am simply stating that cops are not here to protect us, they protect 'order' and enforce Policies. So when I say "they'll win", I simply mean that when you end up with a fine it is not for your protection, but because you have been exploited. Win is synonymous with exploitation. I feel that this is their only role, their only purpose is to fund 'their existence' (preservation of things as they are, not necssarily an intentional conspiracy of idiocy) through exploitation, coercion, violence and ofcourse the violence of the policies themselves on our free will.

Ofcourse they dont always suceed in giving you a fine, but this is their sole purpose, as with any commercial enterprise it is about the sale, I always say "no sale", everyone else says "gee, I guess I'll take it, probably the best deal".