Euphoria-inducing substances on psychedelics

[Light&Love]

Hey people

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=825942553983229569#

Been watching this documentary for the last few weeks, Tha Pharmacratic Inquisition, and at the 1:16:00 mark of the doco it talks about how the shamans of Siberia back in the day combined Amanita Muscaria, Psilocybin, Syrian Rue and Opium for their psychedelic ceremonies. The first three are pretty clear to me, as combining rue and shrooms gives a more intense effect, and adding the Amanita is self-explanatory. The part im most interested in is the euphoria-inducing substances that random cultures throughout the world may or may not have used with their ceremonies. This quote says it all i think:

"Due to the euphoria it induces, it helps one to relax enough to let go in order to fully experience the visionary state, it helps one withstand the intense experience without the constant urge to "make it stop", which by the way is not an option."

This leads me to wonder, are we really missing a key link of the learning process of psychedelics? Because of this constant fear of the user trying to make it stop, through fear obviously, could we be really absorbing ALOT more information and learning/insights from these plants much easier if we didnt feel like total crap when we were under the influence of such subtances?

Id love to hear peoples experiences, one time i got a fair bit tipsy before a trip and it really took the edge of the first hour and a half of the psilocybin trip, and i felt no residual effects from the alcohol afterwards.

Is this an easy way out? Am i just being soft? Or are we meant to go through this 'fear' and try and fight it as much as we possibly can?

One other thing i remember reading a couple months back on here, i think it was tst tantra who made a mention of a test of Psychotria Carthaginensis dmt content, and if i recall correctly it did not have anywhere near the levels of dmt that viridis has, but it did dominate in opiod alkaloid content, correct me if im wrong though. Which leads me to wonder, this is obviously not(to me) just an accident, and they must be here purely for that reason, to "relax one enough in order to fully let go".

Is it a weak thing to do to ease the intensity of the trip? Will the 'spirits' look down on you for taking the easy way out, so to speak?

Thanks in advance for all the intelligent conversation that entertains me to no end!

Peace and Love

[ThunderIdeal]

different horses for different courses i guess

in conjunction with controlling one's own mind and emotions etc, i don't see a problem with it.. not if it helps you to go deep and absorb the content

as in the 'smoothing the tail of a trip' thread, i just hope people don't think the answer to their tripping woes lies in the right combination of drugs. it could help but i think self-mastery should be getting more attention. ask yourself "do i have any ability to meditate whatsoever?" if the answer is no then look into that first.

[Light&Love]

different horses for different courses i guess

in conjunction with controlling one's own mind and emotions etc, i don't see a problem with it.. not if it helps you to go deep and absorb the content

as in the 'smoothing the tail of a trip' thread, i just hope people don't think the answer to their tripping woes lies in the right combination of drugs. it could help but i think self-mastery should be getting more attention. ask yourself "do i have any ability to meditate whatsoever?" if the answer is no then look into that first.

 

Yeah, i was always under the impression that psychedelics as a rule of thumb, gets harder and harder to take the more that you take them, they keep trying to push and challenge you, at least thats how it is for me, i dont know what type of things other people go through during their trips, but my trips seem to get progressivley harder and harder, the more i try and jump into that world, the more i think "what the fuck am i doing this for?" I let the fear overcome me and i just end up pacing back and forth with a death-style look on my face like someone has just stabbed me mother and threw her off the freeway.

Does meditation actually do anything for anyone during a trip? I mean if your freaking out, or in panic-mode, how much will it help you get out of that mind-state?

In any instance, im off to see my harry dealer!

Peace

[naja naja]

just going to the toilet ( a familiar spot in my case) and reading comics put me straight in less than 10seconds. And I had to crawl there I had such bad vertigo and fear so intense.

[nabraxas]

back in the early 90's when E's really packed a punch people used to say that they were the perfect designer drug because they had the trippyness ov LSD, some speed to keep it going & a heroin hit to mellow it all out...I don't mean that people actually thought that E contained LSD, speed & smack, but that it seemed as though they had been designed to emulate a combination ov those 3.

[t st tantra]

would siberian shaman really have had access to all those plants?

t s t .

[sapito]

Is this an easy way out? Am i just being soft? Or are we meant to go through this 'fear' and try and fight it as much as we possibly can?

 

I think more so the fighting it, the hard part it embracing and/or letting go of the notion of being scared.

Ive only met one shaman in south america and he seemed very much pass the normal experiences that most users have while on psychs.

I think if we cant get past the fear side of psychadelics then we arent really heading down the path of healing and transcendence. Thats not to say that you should never fear during an experience. Ive shit me dacks many of times but I dont think aiming to fight the experience is gonna work

[mud]

rue is the biggest aid to going deeper and remaining free form any

kind of making it stop thoughts that i've found.

can feel very nice too

--

Edited June 17, 2010 by mud

[FancyPants]

If I'm tripping (on whatever) and I start feeling pain to the point of distraction, I will have something for it, usually codeine. I have no qualms doing that and I don't feel any adverse reactions otherwise or dimming of the experience.

[mauve]

Does meditation actually do anything for anyone during a trip? I mean if your freaking out, or in panic-mode, how much will it help you get out of that mind-state?

Peace

 

It is very useful actualy (at last imo).

When you meditate a little bit daily you become more acustomed to stop the flow of thoughs in your head. To be able to "not think" during an intense experience is priceless: you don't become dominated by emotions like fear and anger, you can look at those emotions as they arise in you and then leave your body without taking you in a ride.

In the same time, the state of pure attention that you attain when meditating makes the trance deeper and allows you to be more aware of what going on in you, you are more availlable for any insight from the ally/substance.

My english is too limited for explaining this clearly

[_e_]

back in the early 90's when E's really packed a punch people used to say that they were the perfect designer drug because they had the trippyness ov LSD, some speed to keep it going & a heroin hit to mellow it all out...I don't mean that people actually thought that E contained LSD, speed & smack, but that it seemed as though they had been designed to emulate a combination ov those 3.

 

Thats the exact description i would give for the only REALLY good e's i ever came accross. Even through plenty of experimentation and searching ive never been able to re-create the near perfect space created within the neural alchemy of that particular blend. It is common practice to blend all sorts of different substances into a pill batch for designer effects. I remember particular batch of imports getting around in the late 90's that had full tabs of rolling stones acid actually encased inside the pill.

One could almost consider it an artform if done with the right intent (i.e the experience).

Sadly the culture is swamped with mass media and advertising these days from what i have observed. (its been close to 5 years since i have consumed a pill, due to the apparent gutter dive the quality and energy has taken).

On topic- i would think combining rue and opium would be potentially dangerous no?

Being an adrenaphobe, i have often accompanied any extreme lysergic states with a gabba buffer such as clonazepam. And in general have found small amounts of diazepam to allow for smoother transition between worlds, however it is also worth noting that much of the 'friction' experienced can be percieved as an important part of the journey, thus journies accompanied by marshmallows and pillows are recreational in all senses of the word.. leaving the catharsis to therapeutic and healing pursuits.

[Bread Filter]

back in the early 90's when E's really packed a punch people used to say that they were the perfect designer drug because they had the trippyness ov LSD, some speed to keep it going & a heroin hit to mellow it all out...I don't mean that people actually thought that E contained LSD, speed & smack, but that it seemed as though they had been designed to emulate a combination ov those 3.

 

The effects you have described are these days being replicated by a combo of 4-MethylMethcathinone, Methylone and Ethcathinone.

[Bread Filter]

I remember particular batch of imports getting around in the late 90's that had full tabs of rolling stones acid actually encased inside the pill.

 

Yeah I've heard that one too. We debated this one on Bluelight and came to the conclusion that it would be impossible to press paper acid inside a pill. Even if the litmus paper was shredded or something the dosages would all be inconsistent. There was one confirmed pill with LSD on Pillreports and they were the Bermuda Triangles from a few years back. They were big pills though.

[_e_]

Yeah I've heard that one too. We debated this one on Bluelight and came to the conclusion that it would be impossible to press paper acid inside a pill. Even if the litmus paper was shredded or something the dosages would all be inconsistent. There was one confirmed pill with LSD on Pillreports and they were the Bermuda Triangles from a few years back. They were big pills though.

 

yeah these were HUGE pills.. And when you cracked them open there was a full tab in their centre. Not sure of the print, would have been around 2001- 2002

[Bread Filter]

yeah these were HUGE pills.. And when you cracked them open there was a full tab in their centre. Not sure of the print, would have been around 2001- 2002

 

Were they huge as in width or as in double stack?

The only possible way I can think of producing a product like that would be by double stacking. The Bermuda Triangles weren't double stacked.

[ThunderIdeal]

thanks filter!! for the confirmation! google seems to confirm.

i had triangles before i ever had acid. expensive way to trip, eating three of those, my brain felt like an egg in a frypan (at least it did when somebody started cooking eggs)

back in the early 90's when E's really packed a punch people used to say that they were the perfect designer drug because they had the trippyness ov LSD, some speed to keep it going & a heroin hit to mellow it all out...I don't mean that people actually thought that E contained LSD, speed & smack, but that it seemed as though they had been designed to emulate a combination ov those 3.

 

they must have been adulterated with SOMETHING, to have any comparison with acid.

It is very useful actualy (at last imo).

When you meditate a little bit daily you become more acustomed to stop the flow of thoughs in your head. To be able to "not think" during an intense experience is priceless: you don't become dominated by emotions like fear and anger, you can look at those emotions as they arise in you and then leave your body without taking you in a ride.

In the same time, the state of pure attention that you attain when meditating makes the trance deeper and allows you to be more aware of what going on in you, you are more availlable for any insight from the ally/substance.

My english is too limited for explaining this clearly

 

you've done a great job of explaining it.

once again i guess everyone is different, and then if everyone is tripping they are probably immensely MORE DIFFERENT. we take different doses of different things, interpret what ensues differently and react differently.

i feel plugged into a complex reality, like a submarine that has surfaced after cruising the depths blind. then it assumes a quantum super state and blasts into the galaxy at warp speed in every direction. this is just a metaphor. that is my experience, the weirdness of recognising god. it makes me wonder if i'm insane, like really, really, REALLY insane. it's the stuff of sci fi novels, except more intense than every sci fi novel rolled into one. i am jesus.

it isn't cathartic, its ecstatic.

[Light&Love]

It is very useful actualy (at last imo).

When you meditate a little bit daily you become more acustomed to stop the flow of thoughs in your head. To be able to "not think" during an intense experience is priceless: you don't become dominated by emotions like fear and anger, you can look at those emotions as they arise in you and then leave your body without taking you in a ride.

In the same time, the state of pure attention that you attain when meditating makes the trance deeper and allows you to be more aware of what going on in you, you are more availlable for any insight from the ally/substance.

My english is too limited for explaining this clearly

 

Wow, well said. I never actually looked or thought about it that way. Thanks mauve.

Peace and Love

[Light&Love]

would siberian shaman really have had access to all those plants?

t s t .

 

Thats what i was wondering when i heard that. Maybe someone with a bit more knowledge could answer that question more accurately. Two of them are guaranteed though, psilocybin and amanitas, but where on earth would syrian rue and poppy be available in cold weather climates? Christianity and the symbol of Christ in every major religion is widespread though, and i dont think its a coincidence, in my opinion there may have been some serious shamanic herbal trading going on in the time of the crusades, just a theory though.

Peace and Love

[kindness]

Yeah, i was always under the impression that psychedelics as a rule of thumb, gets harder and harder to take the more that you take them, they keep trying to push and challenge you, at least thats how it is for me, i dont know what type of things other people go through during their trips, but my trips seem to get progressivley harder and harder, the more i try and jump into that world, the more i think "what the fuck am i doing this for?" I let the fear overcome me and i just end up pacing back and forth with a death-style look on my face like someone has just stabbed me mother and threw her off the freeway.

 

Yeah, I think that hallucinogens are a bit of a different kettle of fish to manufactured d rugs. It's a bit like popular d rugs of an age follow the popular culture of that time. Lsd used to be widely available and e's were only vaguely available and cost alot - that was the 90's loud punk sort of alternative music was popular. raves took the spotlight and e's became more accessable and generally cheaper, to the point now where they are like $25 (correct me if I'm wrong here as I don't really participate in that scene, my brain cannot handle the amphetamine come down). E's kinda go with the I want everything and I want it now cause it will make me feel better age... drop e feel ecstatic...

that was a bit of a tangent, anyhow, i just wanted to agree that tripping can get harder and harder. For me this usually comes if I am just not getting the message from the teacher - it's like they will be saying to me, "oh god not you again, haven't you got it yet? Here, have some crap feeling and see if you can work out why you feel crap" for me the good goes with the bad and both are just as beneficial to gaining insight into my life and bettering me as a person.

It's always nice to come away from an experience glowing and feeling really connected for days and weeks afterward - rather than feeling confused and messy but following this path doesn't allow for the dictation of how and experience is going to be, regardless of whatever measures are put into place.

I think that if all psych's are for people is a way to get off then it would be better to pursue the road of cocaine or such like, at least then you are kinda just switching on all the good feelings. I am not aiming that at you L&L! Just thinking out loud.

peace

[nabraxas]

they must have been adulterated with SOMETHING, to have any comparison with acid.

no man, not a strong LSD hit but definitely truly psychedelic.

when i first did E's back in London in 1991 they were full on. one pill would keep you going for a good 6-8 hours & that time would literally fly by. You'd be getting the most intense spine tingling rushes, your jaw would be grinding solidly, the sweat would be pumping from you & you'd be having visual distortions...those would range from having trouble seeing where the edges ov Rizla papers actually were, to full on geometric patterns eyes closed or open, dramatically enhanced by the flashing lights at your typical rave...also the urge to dance was irresistible.

And that was the effect ov ALL the pills back then & we were taking them every weekend for years.

if they were adulterated then they were all adulterated in the same way.

[t st tantra]

opium is not just morphine and codine but many other alkaloids as well, including kappa opioid and nmda activities.

it seems those plants may well have all been available to the siberian shaman.

t s t .

[mutant]

Very nice thread.

i dont know what type of things other people go through during their trips, but my trips seem to get progressivley harder and harder, the more i try and jump into that world, the more i think "what the fuck am i doing this for?"

yeah, why are you doing this for?

[Sola]

When I read a book called DMT: The Spirit Molecule a while ago, the idea of letting go was constantly

mentioned by the volunteers in this medical experiment. It seems very common for people to either

resist this letting go or completely let go and enter the next level of the experience. Resisting seems

to be more likely to induce a bad experience from these participants. They were receiving large doses

and it must be said not in a very good setting; at a hospital with many machines and people not to mention no plants.

This recurring experience as well as my own has led me to try to let go and relax whenever something being shown to you

becomes quite intense, even with lsd or psilo. Of course this is not always easy and it can take some time to learn

what different responses your particular body is likely to have to different things. If a joint works for one and codeine

for another I think it's just two people with different bodies heading in the same direction but on slightly different paths.

Letting go can be very confronting but sometimes rewarding.

Sola