WTF is freedom?

[sharxx101]

I have to ask this question today as I have had a shit day copped a speeding fine first time ever in my life! I have been pulled over and given a $234 and 3 demerit point fine. The area where I was fined used to be 80km/h and now has been conviently made 70 km/h so it is a speed trap!

So what is it to truely be free? As I dont think there is many places i the world left where people are truley free and have freedom.

What is your idea of freedom?

[culebra22]

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.

[santiago]

sounds like somebody is having a bad day.

unless your willing to go off the grid ie pack up and head up north for example to the NT or upper WA coastline and establish a camp which is mostly self sufficient then true freedom may elude you, idealistically you would catch your own food probably fish, brew your own moonshine and go from there. nothing is really stopping anybody from doing it bar their own fear and minor logistics like money, travel supplies etc

maybe true freedom comes with death if you look at it from a negative optimistic viewpoint, no bills no nothing..

in the mean time sometimes i like to switch off my phone, lay on the bed all day watching test cricket with cold beers doing absolutely fuck all, no driving just eating my own food and tending to simple tasks like housecleaning, internet..and doing as little as possible until i need to assimilate into the real world again.

others might like to go to bali & co and have the typical holiday

one step to freedom i feel is financial independence in terms of owing nothing to nobody, no store cards, no credit, no loans, no bills.

[ref1ect1ons]

I know what you mean dude, I have no faith in the police anymore or people in general.

To answer ur q or point of discussion, I personally believe freedom is felt within the heart rather than conceptualised in the mind. Despite all the lies and bad things that are going on I try to remember that the truth of my heart is the truth no matter what and that nothing else matters as truth and love are more powerful than lies and greed.

This is abstract I know, but it is the only way I can keep pluggin along.

[Chiral]

Each country or "construct" has a set of rules, the rulers of each construct reserve the right change or implement rules without notice. Whilst you are in the construct you must obey the rules, you are free to do as you as you please but if anything you do is outside the construct rules then you will give up your freedom for large chunks of time in a 4x4 cage. The rulers also reserve the right to go to war, recruit you to fight in war in honor of the construct. Failure to obey once again will mean giving up your freedom for cage time. As time goes by you will no doubt find yourself at one time or another breaking one of the many thousands of rules, this is unfortunately unavoidable even for those that swore an oath to serve and uphold all the rules of the construct.

These oath swearers are unfortunately for the rest of us, experts at avoiding cage time and paying dues or fines, however they are our only choice when it comes to defending your freedom when appearing in a construct court when you have been caught breaking one of many thousands construct rules, and will charge you according to a table of greed for their service.

One must understand that the rules of the construct may seem democratic, and allow such things as freedom of speech, the right to demonstrate and the right to view or read adult material without obstruction or censorship, but this is not so. The rulers of the construct over time remove parts and add new sections which changes the word democratic to dictatorship. It is up to the individual to posses unparalleled construct rule reading skills, be prepared in an instant to give up anything that may suddenly become against the rules and do not associate with anyone you suspect to be a construct rule breaker.

Freedom inside a construct is not hard to manage, just remember to visualize life inside a 4x4 concrete cage and that should be enough to motivate you not to break one of the many thousands of rules. If you feel you cannot live within the confines of a construct without breaking rules, then it is best you find somewhere else that has no rules, at present there are no such places left on Earth, so it is advisable to either...

A; become a model construct citizen by learning and obeying all the rules, working hard, paying taxes and praying to the Lord.

B; become a ruler of a construct.

C; prepare to spend most of your life in a cage.

D; live a life of anarchy and rule breaking within the construct, even if you are not caught the lord will judge you and the penalties more severe than a cage.

E; move to another vacant planet.

F; get yourself a severe medical condition, one that has you committed to an institution,there are different rules within that construct that may be easier for you to follow.

G; commit suicide.

Remember that most constructs rules are there to protect you from the many sins and temptations of life, as a long term worker these temptations may hinder your ability to continue to perform well at your designated job, also construct rulers need to know their workers will show up for work everyday and pay their taxes otherwise a ruler will not have any money to enjoy day to life outside the construct rules. Anyone caught using the word hypocrisy,or hypocrite, a term frequently used by rule breakers when trying to justify their ways and speak out against construct rulers, will see cage time, in fact cage time is to be expected if anyone speaks out using any anti ruler terms. Rulers are special privileged types hand chosen by God (outer rulers)..to form borders and walls that keep their workers safe and sound inside of. Workers need rulers to be able to know what to do, without constructs and rulers, workers are lost and don't know what to do, and their energy is wasted.

Constructs and rulers are in place for the greater higher goal, without construct rulers the challenges of meeting global warming deadlines or spreading pandemic virus's wouldn't be possible. The outer rulers need to know that a system is in place when they arrive that will suit their environmental and bodily needs.

You are free to go now...have a nice day.

[Yawning Man]

You are free........to do as we tell you.

[sharxx101]

Each country or "construct" has a set of rules, the rulers of each construct reserve the right change or implement rules without notice. Whilst you are in the construct you must obey the rules, you are free to do as you as you please but if anything you do is outside the construct rules then you will give up your freedom for large chunks of time in a 4x4 cage. The rulers also reserve the right to go to war, recruit you to fight in war in honor of the construct. Failure to obey once again will mean giving up your freedom for cage time. As time goes by you will no doubt find yourself at one time or another breaking one of the many thousands of rules, this is unfortunately unavoidable even for those that swore an oath to serve and uphold all the rules of the construct.

These oath swearers are unfortunately for the rest of us, experts at avoiding cage time and paying dues or fines, however they are our only choice when it comes to defending your freedom when appearing in a construct court when you have been caught breaking one of many thousands construct rules, and will charge you according to a table of greed for their service.

One must understand that the rules of the construct may seem democratic, and allow such things as freedom of speech, the right to demonstrate and the right to view or read adult material without obstruction or censorship, but this is not so. The rulers of the construct over time remove parts and add new sections which changes the word democratic to dictatorship. It is up to the individual to posses unparalleled construct rule reading skills, be prepared in an instant to give up anything that may suddenly become against the rules and do not associate with anyone you suspect to be a construct rule breaker.

Freedom inside a construct is not hard to manage, just remember to visualize life inside a 4x4 concrete cage and that should be enough to motivate you not to break one of the many thousands of rules. If you feel you cannot live within the confines of a construct without breaking rules, then it is best you find somewhere else that has no rules, at present there are no such places left on Earth, so it is advisable to either...

A; become a model construct citizen by learning and obeying all the rules, working hard, paying taxes and praying to the Lord.

B; become a ruler of a construct.

C; prepare to spend most of your life in a cage.

D; live a life of anarchy and rule breaking within the construct, even if you are not caught the lord will judge you and the penalties more severe than a cage.

E; move to another vacant planet.

F; get yourself a severe medical condition, one that has you committed to an institution,there are different rules within that construct that may be easier for you to follow.

G; commit suicide.

Remember that most constructs rules are there to protect you from the many sins and temptations of life, as a long term worker these temptations may hinder your ability to continue to perform well at your designated job, also construct rulers need to know their workers will show up for work everyday and pay their taxes otherwise a ruler will not have any money to enjoy day to life outside the construct rules. Anyone caught using the word hypocrisy,or hypocrite, a term frequently used by rule breakers when trying to justify their ways and speak out against construct rulers, will see cage time, in fact cage time is to be expected if anyone speaks out using any anti ruler terms. Rulers are special privileged types hand chosen by God (outer rulers)..to form borders and walls that keep their workers safe and sound inside of. Workers need rulers to be able to know what to do, without constructs and rulers, workers are lost and don't know what to do, and their energy is wasted.

Constructs and rulers are in place for the greater higher goal, without construct rulers the challenges of meeting global warming deadlines or spreading pandemic virus's wouldn't be possible. The outer rulers need to know that a system is in place when they arrive that will suit their environmental and bodily needs.

You are free to go now...have a nice day.

 

Well said I will edit my original post, had a shit day and needed to vent. Thanks for your advice Chiral

[hutch]

We are never truly free. Freedom is the ability to make a decision based purely on your own desire and with no conscious thought or consideration for the impact on anyone else. I don't know about you but I think I make every decision with others in mind. The bird in the tree is free but with that comes a shit load of responsibility! It has no fall back position so is forced to live life to the full each day. I, like most, always seem to be waiting for something to improve before jumping in. We always seem to need just a little bit more all the time. The closest I have come to being free is on my 25 acre small farm. I do owe a small sum on it but within it's 4 boundary fences I rule. (when the wife lets me) I got a speeding fine a couple of years back and I know I wasn't speeding. Bet you have heard that before haven't you I was so pissed off about it I wanted to take it further but in the end I just paid up. Wasn't worth the agro...We can't do much about what goes on out side our boundary fences but we can when we shut the gate. Your relationships with your plants will set you free but I think you know that already Pity those who don't.

Take care mate...

Hutch

[Chiral]

The word freedom is a very interesting word to cross analyse ...

An online dictionary search reveals;

free·dom (frdm)

n.

1. The condition of being free of restraints.

2. Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression.

3.

a. Political independence.

b. Exemption from the arbitrary exercise of authority in the performance of a specific action; civil liberty: freedom of assembly.

4. Exemption from an unpleasant or onerous condition: freedom from want.

5. The capacity to exercise choice; free will: We have the freedom to do as we please all afternoon.

6. Ease or facility of movement: loose sports clothing, giving the wearer freedom.

7. Frankness or boldness; lack of modesty or reserve: the new freedom in movies and novels.

8.

a. The right to unrestricted use; full access: was given the freedom of their research facilities.

b. The right of enjoying all of the privileges of membership or citizenship: the freedom of the city.

9. A right or the power to engage in certain actions without control or interference: "the seductive freedoms and excesses of the picaresque form" (John W. Aldridge).

Personally the fundamental meaning of the word freedom is;

For one to not,.. for even one single millisecond..make a single "mind based" decision that has to take into consideration any external or internal impact. For as long as we have been alive there is serious doubt about weather such a decision has ever been made. There are boundless, infinite, universal rules, complex mathematical algorithms that are in place to hold different parts of the cosmos together. An organism is formed based on a set of rules or criteria, these rules form the organism and or give it life or meaning.

Is there actually anywhere,.. one could envisage that was free from a single common rule or arrangement...?

The word freedoms fundamental meaning as I see it, is a non existent state of mind, in a non existent dimensional plane, that cannot be explained or experienced so long as there are complex mathematical algorithms in place that form some sort of understandable quantum light.

Even though freedom is a non existent state of mind that can never be realized within the universe we realise, that does not actually mean freedom does not exist. It simply means that we use the word in place of "ALLOWED"...fundamentally freedom may exist somewhere, but using a mind that is formed from basic molecular rules, and construction,.. to try to realize or visualize such an existence, cannot ever work.

So where did this word come from and why do we use it...?

An on line search only brings up useless old quotes or personal ideas based on laws of that country. Try to make a single decision and carry it out that is not based on a single micro rule,...the fact is we can't, all we have the ability to do is to make decisions,.. that allow such a decision to be carried out,.. withing the boundaries of our existence.

for example you may question this and say well in my mind I can go anywhere I want or fly like a bird and enjoy immense freedom. Not so, for all your imagery and decisions or choices during this imaginary projection always take into consideration a set of rules that are preloaded into our mind.

I understand that the speed of thought is the fastest moving universal algorithm a human can actually conceptualize, so anything that is moving beyond this speed could well possibly be exhibiting a form of freedom, moving without course or reaction, a lawless free form moving randomly beyond the limits of time, space or friction. This is as close as my organic, mathematically constructed mind will allow me to conceive freedom.

The word freedom is miss-used here and now, it is used,.. to provide organisms,.. that move within constructs,.. with a sense of something to fight for or achieve, it is an unattainable goal, the carrot at the end of the string, nothing more.

"being allowed to" and "obeying the rules" is the best we could hope for in this place, meditation is the only known form of "escape" or "entry" if you will,.. from any construct rules, though once again the mind has to follow even basic organic rules to allow it to meditate, such as pump blood and oxygen around it's self. These rules are in turn controlled by and rely on other sets of bodily rules to complete such tasks.

Even a deep look into another plane such as the DMT world throws up many existing common cosmic rules such as colour, shape and form.

If freedom exists anywhere it cannot be understood or categorized by anything from a construct that uses any form of maths as a cohesive bond.

[Tlaloc]

Excellent topic.

What is freedom? Americans have their idea of freedom.. reading noam chomsky's works or listening to one of George Carlin's rants .. one can clearly surmise the hypocrisy of the American Social Idealism of freedom.

People mistakenly believe they have freedom. little do they realise that all the choices have been made for them, they just have the illusion that choice is theirs.

Chiral and Hutch, your explanations were very good. Thanyou, I never tire of hearing these "truths" I wish many many many more people saw and understood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JChUO4TLjnY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e02rn2FJe9o

I was once a student of a great and accomplished Chinese Zen master, he came out to Australia and I stayed and learned with him in QLD. He could go into my mind and show me things.. I remember one day I was at a large shopping centre in Brisbane, all of the sudden this powerful "wave" came over me (No drugs involved folks ;) I ran and jumped into my parked car..

I could then feel my ego being dissolved .. I was relinquishing my idea of the self.. I could "feel" or "see" him meditating from his retreat - bringing my consciousness to experience this event. I became One with everything. All time was an instant and infinity itself - everything had already happened .. no desire.. just : NOW

Every direction was an infinity in itself and it was also an instant.

..The GAP Between Thoughts

That was a state of incredible freedom for me.

I then learned from a 27th Generation Chinese Taoist master for 2yrs. he could barely speak the language.. the one thing he would always say to his students: "Forget yourself!" Forget yourself!

When you don't make "I" there is no fear, only NOW.. or "Just like this"

Other questions I like to ask

"What is the Nature Consciousness?"

"What is that, which exists BEFORE Thought?"

"What is Truth?" (not subjective truth, not culturally based or biased interpretations/creations/ taxonomies or codified agreements of the a priori etc. rather ... . What is the Nature of Truth?

I asked another master that question.. he said " If you answer by thinking, you are wrong" another one said " If you can name it, it isn't" another one said: "look within"

so I take your question and raise you this one:

"What is the Nature of TRUTH?"

Buddha bless all

[Chiral]

So is god "freedom"...?

This is by far the most settling hypothesis of "freedom" for a construct mind, because one does struggle to render any thought beyond God, and so if God is freedom, then how does one be free, other than to become God...?

I can however, as I type, speculate about the possibility of an anti God, or a state that is opposite everything that God is., although this really does ruin any idea that God is freedom because to conjure up any anti God theories I am simply put back into thought that has boundaries, definition and parameters to measure one against the other.

Once again I am unable to accept anything other than fundamental thought, built on the seemingly infinite timeless physics of this current spectrum we are aware of.

An interesting take on the word freedom is... one can move, or make decisions, and carry them out without any cost. An example of this flawed reasoning is let's say I move this pencil on my desk, 6" to the right, there is no cost or consequence to anything, or is there..?

In fact there are many costs, mainly spending energy to perform the task, although may seem insignificant it is definitely cost.

There is one single glaring answer to this seemingly impossible question. It is the only one my mind finds time after time, that cannot be fundamentally torn apart with obvious philosophical observations, like "anti God" or the limits of this construct, and that single simple glaring answer that always finds it's way into this puzzle is ..Death.

The reason I continue to find this answer is,.. and let me say it is starting to become a thing of beauty and realization, is that anti death is life...life is the state of rules, being self aware is only possible due to the millions of little rules, the endless streams of code that build form, shape and definition, life is only possible because of the placement of mathematical cohesion, a seemingly endless array of algorithms coming together to form a fundamental state called a conscience.

Here, right this very instant, we are all creatures of code, of laws that are built from mathematics. These codes, and lines, or boundaries give us a way to "see in the dark" ...without any such code for support in this here and now, we will find the opposite. The opposite can only mean one thing.

I think, therefore I am. This is the ultimate statement for life, this is anti death, life is the ying, death is the yang. Freedom does not exist within life, but it's fundamental meaning suggests that it could well be found only in death, for in death there are no lines of code that allow form or conscience, it can only ever be a formless state of exclusive freedom.

So why do conscience beings fear death..?

and why form such strong attachments to this state..?

I'd like to offer up a suggestion that once rose during a heavy psychedelic experience and that is...that God is not what we are all led to believe, can we for at least just one second, consider that what everyone wants us to believe...ie; GOD is great, Jesus is our savior etc.. now try and look behind all this, in other words, conceptualize these fallacies as actually being hell, the devils construct. Now what we are taught and made to believe is that the hell that is in place now is a very evil and bad place is actually our hidden utopia, a place where freedom may exist, and we are quite possibly being manipulated through fear into believing the exact opposite. The ultimate con if you will, just think about it really, because I know when I do, things shift into uncanny sensible places.

It's been quite some time since I have brought these philosophical meanderings up, this theory has been eating and chewing inside me for as long as I can remember, it just makes more and more sense the more I contemplate it.

There is something not quite right about this place, something has been nagging and bugging me for a lifetime, I'm constantly aware of something that isn't naturally a part of this state we function in, yet I know it's there, monitoring and watching, sometimes I think the only thing it fears is anyone finding it out and realization of something being very wrong, very wrong indeed.

..The GAP Between Thoughts

This is a very interesting little snippit...I'm very intrigued to learn more about this GAP theory.

[incognito]

the more and more i think about it, as well as insight brought from psychadelic experience, IMO, is that this is indeed a testing ground. Will go into this further later, i have to head off to a NYE bbq. Hooroo!

[reptyle]

Freedom is not having to listen to yourself whinge about the things which are beyond your immediate control whilst bearing witness to the hilarity of your not trying to attain the control over that which is controllable.

[mutant]

Some comments are quite naive.

Freedom is a need and tendency not a reality... So yes it's an idea, but not everyone thinks he is really free. And I am sure George Carlin didn't think he was free, he was had a firm idea on what type of freedom he'd like.

People need the sense of freedom but also need to enslave and be enslaved. This actually says a lot about freedom idealists.

What is the truth??

You got two types of truth. One is the objective one - it doesn't really exist: it is the truth of reference for every other subjective truth. The other is each person's subjective truth. The sense of truth / reality for each person is derived from the comparison between the general objective truth and individual subjective one.

It is a bit embarrassing to have been concerned with the human problem all one's life and find at the end that one has no more to offer by way of advice than 'try to be a little kinder.'

Huxley...

that's the fucking truth deep down ... be a better person, love more, hate less. I should listen to my own advice!

[dworx]

 

http://loveforlife.com.au this site shows how enslaved we really are. Ther was another aussie freedom site http://www.stunnedmullets.com It appears to have been closed down but one writer their went to court for a speeding fine 70 in a 60 zone. When he stood before the judge?? he said he was their to accept the facts. the judge asked dont you mean the allegations and he said no I am here to accept the facts. This infuriated the judge as he was actually being forced to bring forth witnesses and the injured party of which there wasn't any, the case was thrown out,they claim you are injuring the state and you are breaking the law but the state can not be an injured party as there is no one to stand as the state and the laws are just statutes and statutes do not apply to the living being only to corporations. Your name is a corporation - on your licence it is all in Caps, Caps are only used for businesses and it is this trickery that anables them to enforce statutes upon us.

[mutant]

Freedom is not having to listen to yourself whinge about the things which are beyond your immediate control whilst bearing witness to the hilarity of your not trying to attain the control over that which is controllable.

great quote btw!!!

[ThunderIdeal]

So is god "freedom"...?

This is by far the most settling hypothesis of "freedom" for a construct mind, because one does struggle to render any thought beyond God, and so if God is freedom, then how does one be free, other than to become God...?

I can however, as I type, speculate about the possibility of an anti God, or a state that is opposite everything that God is., although this really does ruin any idea that God is freedom because to conjure up any anti God theories I am simply put back into thought that has boundaries, definition and parameters to measure one against the other.

Once again I am unable to accept anything other than fundamental thought, built on the seemingly infinite timeless physics of this current spectrum we are aware of.

An interesting take on the word freedom is... one can move, or make decisions, and carry them out without any cost. An example of this flawed reasoning is let's say I move this pencil on my desk, 6" to the right, there is no cost or consequence to anything, or is there..?

In fact there are many costs, mainly spending energy to perform the task, although may seem insignificant it is definitely cost.

There is one single glaring answer to this seemingly impossible question. It is the only one my mind finds time after time, that cannot be fundamentally torn apart with obvious philosophical observations, like "anti God" or the limits of this construct, and that single simple glaring answer that always finds it's way into this puzzle is ..Death.

The reason I continue to find this answer is,.. and let me say it is starting to become a thing of beauty and realization, is that anti death is life...life is the state of rules, being self aware is only possible due to the millions of little rules, the endless streams of code that build form, shape and definition, life is only possible because of the placement of mathematical cohesion, a seemingly endless array of algorithms coming together to form a fundamental state called a conscience.

Here, right this very instant, we are all creatures of code, of laws that are built from mathematics. These codes, and lines, or boundaries give us a way to "see in the dark" ...without any such code for support in this here and now, we will find the opposite. The opposite can only mean one thing.

I think, therefore I am. This is the ultimate statement for life, this is anti death, life is the ying, death is the yang. Freedom does not exist within life, but it's fundamental meaning suggests that it could well be found only in death, for in death there are no lines of code that allow form or conscience, it can only ever be a formless state of exclusive freedom.

So why do conscience beings fear death..?

and why form such strong attachments to this state..?

I'd like to offer up a suggestion that once rose during a heavy psychedelic experience and that is...that God is not what we are all led to believe, can we for at least just one second, consider that what everyone wants us to believe...ie; GOD is great, Jesus is our savior etc.. now try and look behind all this, in other words, conceptualize these fallacies as actually being hell, the devils construct. Now what we are taught and made to believe is that the hell that is in place now is a very evil and bad place is actually our hidden utopia, a place where freedom may exist, and we are quite possibly being manipulated through fear into believing the exact opposite. The ultimate con if you will, just think about it really, because I know when I do, things shift into uncanny sensible places.

It's been quite some time since I have brought these philosophical meanderings up, this theory has been eating and chewing inside me for as long as I can remember, it just makes more and more sense the more I contemplate it.

There is something not quite right about this place, something has been nagging and bugging me for a lifetime, I'm constantly aware of something that isn't naturally a part of this state we function in, yet I know it's there, monitoring and watching, sometimes I think the only thing it fears is anyone finding it out and realization of something being very wrong, very wrong indeed.

..The GAP Between Thoughts

This is a very interesting little snippit...I'm very intrigued to learn more about this GAP theory.

 

i can't be bothered getting hung up on limiting concepts of god, i suggest trying it :D manipulative religious ideas surrounding god are poor foundations to lay your thoughts on. those ideas go down the toilet. flush.

i tend to think god is existence and non existence, and every paradox in between. initially i thought i wouldn't like your post because of that, but i definitely hear what you're saying. my interpretation is that this unmanifest side of the coin is the other that mckenna referred to. either way, i won't try to lay a whole bunch of dualities in place, it just seems we're on the same trip as are many other people, in being able to glimpse that what will come is natural, and nothing to be afraid of....... though death is horrifying when faced, lay down for her and see that she offers ultimate salvation.

[reptyle]

I am that i am...

The way i am now...causes me to be the way i shall be in the future...

I am that i am.

The way i am now, is the way i shall be in the future.

I am that i am...

The knowing of this is freedom. The knowing of this is God's knowing.

I am that I am.

Code or no code, rule or no rule, life or no life...

I am that I am.

[ENtiTY]

Freedom in its absolute form cannot exist accept to one entity.

Humans cannot be absolutely free, we all have a sense of right and wrong which partially governs our actions.

The idea of freedom is used by authorative figures as a method of control.

More importantly no human mind has the capability to responsibly handle freedom in its absolute form.

This is a very complicated topic that has many many layers.

[sharxx101]

Freedom is an idea that is sold to us by leaders to keep us slaves to our countries/dollar. (tv is so repetitive and drills things in to peoples heads, thats why its called programming)

You are not a free person you are the property of the country you are born in. This is why our licences and bills are in capital letters as another post said, this gives the system the right to impose penalitys against the person/company who steps out of line.

If we were needed for war we would have to fight or be proscuted for not wanting to kill people, even if it was a bullshit war setup by two leaders for profit.

I know there needs to be rules and rulers there is a system in life, there even needs to be a cheif of the tribe or village.

Maybe it is genetic? Are people born to lead, or breed to lead?

As I have heard of leaders interbreeding with native rulers for example the american Indians probably by force, but who knows.

And in the new world it is survival of the smartest not the fittest. Distinys were setup a long time ago, smart people with the dream of building a world that seems free, but nothing is without cost.

Banks rule the world and paper and plastic can get you anything in an age of madness. What is true value?

To be God is to truely be free as you are the ruler of the / or your universe.

What is the true goal of man kind? To be able to play god and know everything is that to be truely free? Or to have nowhere where people can be free?

Another good question is, is God truely free? Or is everything under a system of rule, could god have a leader?

I have a very open mind and this subject only makes me think of more questions...

Any feedback welcome

[mutant]

I don't agree that freedom is a concept made up from authority systems to enslave us more. I would bet authority would love us think we are free, think we have a freedom of choice, but in reality the only freedom we got is which shop to shop from or which channel to turn to next on TV.

But then again, there are many aspects, levels, and layers, as said, of the concept of freedom. In an individual point of view it's a totally different thing that from a mass of people, like society point of view, totally a different thing. We can also say, in a way, that society is what the individual so desperately depends on, but also sometime wants to escape from: the confinement opposed by society's very foundations.

If you see it deterministic, there no freedom. But I won't dismiss the cooncept so much. Freedom is vital to me.

[Teotzlcoatl]

Freedom = Anarchism + Peace

Anarchism = Freedom from oppression

Peace = Freedom from violence and chaos

If you think it's an oxymoron, then you don't understand the difference between anarchy and anarchism.

[Chiral]

All my freedoms in the here and now are not free as they all come at varying forms of cost, once again the word freedom is miss-used in place of "allowed to"..true freedom is formless and without description, it does not adhere to any rules or boundaries and cannot ever be quantified.

We live in a world governed by resistors (rules) the current flow..(freedom) has capacitors and resistors which govern and "allow" us to move within the soldered paths of the circuit.

Freedom is reached when released from the circuit into an omniworld that is devoid of shape form or matter.

[Tlaloc]

The GAP between Thoughts

I agree with you when you call it a 'concept' as I know others call it a Truth. In Calling it a Truth, IMHO one becomes unnecessarily attached. I prefer to see it as a concept because the whole idea underpinning this is to trick the mind into relinquishing control of Thought.

i.e. "creating the Idea" that a Gap exists. it is also just a way of talking about it.

We stupid monkeys mistake ritual for truth, the finger for the moon.

Zennists have a saying: every 500 years the teachings of the Buddha (or great spiritual teacher) get distorted and corrupted by 1/5th from the original teachings. It's been 2500 since last Buddha.. that would make it a 100% distortion. Ironically, Sakyamuni was vehemently opposed to idolatry in any form.. and yet has become probably the most popularised form of idolatry in the whole world.

Buddha's teaching were written by his own inner chamber disciples. These people were very highly accomplished mediators. When you are in these groups or circles your consciousness shifts.. sometimes one cannot explain or allude to these states.

When Sakyamuni would say "keep 3 jewels hidden in the temple and four sticks alight at all times on the alter, he wasn't talking about mundane instructions for running a temple, - these were internal instructions some call metaphors,and yet the world over, misled Buddhists and laymen keep "incense sticks burning and jewels in temples believing that is what their teacher desired. (Buddha meant the "temple of mind") lol ... he cared nothing for physical temples.

So the pathway is an inward one. try telling it to the masses.. especially those who "know what God wants" and "are doing His will" lol have you ever noticed ... it's whatever shit they've been told + anything they can make up on top of that.. furthering the slide...

Check these links out Re: Gap between thoughts. .

One becomes aware of the Gap when meditating attentively.

The concept was first introduced to me via the Castaneda paradigm. Later readings I discovered it to more or less be the underpinning of all inner traditions - A foundation across comparative mystical traditions; although some do not call it that specifically, once recognised the link is unmistakable.

http://www.mybabaji.net/blog5.php/2008/12/02/the-gap-between-thoughts

http://www.abundancetapestry.com/experiencing-the-gap/

Gradually... and I mean v e r y gradually, the gap extends in length. In the Gap "you" or "I" doesn't exist. There is only "attention" or "awareness"

With many years practice one can actually Prevent thoughts from arising .. then one can become 'detached' from Thought.

Masters for years admonished their pupils : "the clearest and quickest way to purify the mind, is to Look Without Thinking"

Take care and be well.

love to all

..The GAP Between Thoughts

This is a very interesting little snippit...I'm very intrigued to learn more about this GAP theory.

 

[bℓσωηG]

come on man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW40_FMOG8c&feature=PlayList&p=C109FFDF260A18E5&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=15