Search engines vs real conversation

[G*P]

Ok,

so you're sitting down at a nice coffee shop, you've met a friend there and a random stops by and sits down.

They're a wonderful, cheerful and friendly type and they ask you if it's ok to sit down.

You say:

No, use the search engine

They say:

WTF?

You say:

What? NO....... 'what' is a question, thats not allowed straight away. no. no no no- U T (F*CKIN ) SE, ok?

They say:

What is a fucking search engine, asshole?

You say:

Its cyberpunk coloqiual bullshit attitude for: "im here, but im not really here- id like to share and learn, but rather than do that freely im gonna give you all kinds of attitude and let you work it out for yourself, ok?

They say:

"F*ck you", as their fist punches your f*ckface fair in your f*ck mouth

You say:

"F*ck, it would been so much easier to just chat and be nice"- as blood runs down your arrogant, f*cked up face, moderators (worldwide) take courses on organising information and compiling sticky threads, and you silently realise that information is free- and that you get back what you give out.

Edited July 25, 2009 by G*P

[ThunderIdeal]

you stroll into a coffee shop and look for the appropriate table (thread) where people are already talking about the topic you want to ask about. you bring it up in the right place and polite discussion ensues.

[incognito]

well, that was impressive. not.

look bro, alot of people here have been here quite a while, and alot of questions have been asked, and answered, over and over and over and over again. theres a thing called a search engine that answers those questions.

Its also a little nudge for a newb to take their own innitiative and do some easy reserach, which is alys more self satisfying and you always learn a whole lot more than being spoon-fed.

Learning research skills will not only benefit you here, but in life in general.

Edited July 25, 2009 by incognito

[Torsten]

GP, I am sure you would be very quick to complain if this forum was like most other forums where the same basic qustion get asked and answered in new threads ad nauseam. Using UTSE in one of the early replies not only tells the person who is asking the question that the polite thing to do is to have a quick look yourself, but it also tells other people who later on [maybe years later] come across that thread in their own searches that this thread is not the one that has the answer in it.

UTSE should be used judiciously. There are 20 or 30 questions that everyone here is sick of and that the original poster will himself be sick of in a few months. These deserve UTSE. We don't use UTFSE here, but I think using PUTSE is also not required.

[Torsten]

hmmm, that might get the UTFSE exemption ;)

also just wanted to add that in general I do the same for my real world conversation. I could waste half a lifetime explaining how to do basic extractions or how to take cactus cuttings, but somehow I am not drawn to that, so for basic stuff I often refer to these forums, other forums, wikipedia, or simply google.

[Torsten]

Only if you tell me where I can get salvia cuttings and whether it is legal to import coca seeds! oh yes, and why doesn't my personal pic upload and why has admin changed the way the thread displays in some sort of nested list form? Also, what's that acacia in my backyard with the yellow flowers?

oh man, I just checked in the shroom forum for the first time in weeks. There are 5 active canning jar threads right next to each other! WTF? And who still uses canning jars anyway?

[Garbage]

Yoy mean Kilner?

Want to trade?

[G*P]

Hey Torsten,

i'v just noticed that this would probably be more appropriate as a PM. As some general kind of feedback regarding what I percieve as the culture that is perpetuated..

and managed..

(at the highest level of influence)

by admin.

The attitudes and beliefs that majority holds, can be 'moderated'. I love the organic, living nature of 'threads' of communication- I'm senior on a few forums, and I help to cultivate an open understanding and sharing attitude. I stamp down on ppl who spit out attitudes that they've only regurgitated in absence of their own free thought..

and shaking stuff up usually does help it settle anew, in even more appropriate and beneficial ways.

This is only playing on a part of something much deeper that I think needs a new conscious evaluation amongst Aussie ethnobotanists-

and that would be assuming the right to disseminate and initiate others through their own harmful self projections and judgements. The arrogance of assuming dominion over the 'right way', or that there could be elitism enough to demand others "learned the hard way, like I did"..

Whats wrong with a "NOOBS READ THIS" section?

I've seen it work many times to reduce 'noise' posting.

Why does everyone want forums to be like google?

To be honest , if you've reached 1-2000+ posts on any forum and aren't prepared to cheerfully answer noobs Q's I don't think you should be there at all.

I can see this entire culture and its function, working far more harmoniously than it currently is.

And if search engines of message boards were so bloody good- you wouldn't get advanced members everywhere writing tutorials on how to use the f*cking things, itd just happen.

Now, who wants to knicker-knot 'emselves over these remarks?

Maybe some senior members can spit out some more sarcasm to set further healthy examples?

Edited July 26, 2009 by G*P

[Torsten]

If you allow reposting of the same questions then people who have been here a while will get bored/annoyed and leave. That means the noob questions will be answered by other noobs and the quality of the discussion drops very quickly and dramatically. The more advanced discussion simply won't happen as the people aren't here anymore. If that is the type of forum you want then please go elsewhere as that is not my intention to provide.

There are certain bits of information that are VERY easy to get without having to make a thread on this forum. Whether this is via google or via the forum search engine makes no difference. Being so lazy as to NOT do so and to expect other people to repeatedly spoon feed you that information is insulting and disrespectful to them. eg, you wouldn't get up in your university chem lecture and ask the approximate atomic weight of hydrogen now would you? And if you did, then isn't that simply rude to all the other people who simply looked in the front cover of their chem book rather than holding up a group of 50 students with such a simple question? To be hones, if someone who's never done chemistry in their life walks into a chem lecture, wuldn't you expect him to sit and listen for a little while until he learns the basics of both chemistry and how to do research?

I am not saying we are a university here, but many of us are many years beyond noobs so the same dynamics apply. And like I said, you have the choice of two styles of forums: one that lowers the tone to the lowest common denominator, or one that expects some basic effort before posting. I prefer the latter in all cases, even when I am a noob on other forums. I am a member in a few places unrelated to ethnobotany and I would always do my research first before asking noob questions. I think it is a common courtesy - just like I think it is rude not to do so.

hence I also do not get why you think this:

To be honest , if you've reached 1-2000+ posts on any forum and aren't prepared to cheerfully answer noobs Q's I don't think you should be there at all.

Who gives you the right to determine whether a members needs to waste hours each day posting the same crap over and over before he can get down to the stuff he is interested in? Most members here have no problem answering questions from noobs as long as they are not repetitive and lazy questions. Plenty of noobs come on here and their first question is quite unique and you'll see lots of members rushing to help out.

Actually, I have an idea, since you are the only one not sick of noob questions, why don't we make a new subforum for noob questions and make you the moderator there. You will then have to reply to any questions that are not answered within 24 hours [as noobs tend to be quite impatient]. Would that suit you? You can then also write the FAQ there, but you can never use UTSE.

Your idea of noob threads is a good one and was looked at some time ago. ie it is the same as a FAQ. This is up to the mods and members to get going, but hasn't happened. I am personally not too fussed about it because I see from other forums that noobs who make noob threads tend to do so regardless of whether there are FAQs or not. Some noobs are simply rude in their expectations.

I also wonder why you had to start a new thread for this? There are currently 3 threads discussing vibe, noobs, content etc and much of this has been posted in the other threads already?

[Smiling Cloud]

i always thought the "F" in UTFSE stood for forum. As in Use The Forum Search Engine. What is PUTSE? I would think it would be Please Use The Search Engine, but its probably Phuckhead Use The Search Engine or something.

I think this place is pretty cool and newbs generally get helped promptly.

[reptyle]

I reckon Torsten is a noob. he needs his own forum...and someone can move it all around the site, first into spiritualisty and philosophy then into bitches and gripes then into ethnobotnay, through austrlian plants into chillspace and finally out through the legal advice threads. but i'd recommend anything involving torsten be keep in the closet just incase we get ourselves whipped ever so politely off the internet for good~!

[G*P]

Torsten,

I respect and appreciate your efforts as a moderator and even as a pioneer.

And sometimes I sense a very distinct volatility about you. Something that will inflame in direct measure to that which seems to be found as provocative.

i dont know about others,

But me, i'm an ideas man- and one that is focused on solutions. It is second nature for me to create a compelling vision and work backwards from there in whatever way achieves win/wins for everyone.

Maybe theres something yet to imagine.. ?

Now, I honour the ideas that you have grown up until now- and I still see that perhaps one could find an occasional grey between all these blacks and whites. Concerning forum culture-

your values to do with 'being spoon fed'

about only 2 types of forums

the complex equivalances you indulge in, with ideas such as 'disrepsect'

Are really just your ideas. others may share them, but you really are using some momentum with this and unknowingly crafting a culture that really isnt serving our planet and its custodians aswell as it could- but its a magnificent beginning.

Choice is always a good thing to have, and freedom and flexibility in thinking also.

I really wonder.. what kind of attitudes could serve this community even better?

Because if it was working as smooth as silk- without (as you said:3 current threads already discussing the same thing-or even needing to) wouldn't it be great to re-evaluate what wasn't working in just that way that allows it all to work even better?

With me, id like to give due credit to you. But please don't think im just an empty whinger- I can engineer and implement ideas on a level that is seldom understood. This attitude i'm sensing from you: about making me the moderator of a new noob forum- I mean seriously, there is great potential in acting on ideas like that -so why do I get it 'with lip'. I'd jump to that if I could b arsed with all that script/programming shite ( or even if someone lent me a book on how to use these board engines) yeah- what an idea. plenty better ones to emerge as time rolls on, im sure.

"To be honest , if you've reached 1-2000+ posts on any forum and aren't prepared to cheerfully answer noobs Q's I don't think you should be there at all."

"Who gives you the right to determine whether a members needs to waste hours each day posting the same crap over and over before he can get down to the stuff he is interested in?"

Who gives me the right to determine how much time is wasted before a person can get 'down to the stuff they are really interested in'

^^

I think you've pulled some mega insight out with this.

F*ck wasting time! we are living even beyond the age of information. I want to help youngins, noobs and stream entering novices save some time that I didn't get to. Aswell as the poor, bored and irritated seniors who will go elsewhere if they can't talk advanced talk.

The other big thing with this, is:

WHO THE heck ARE YOU, and a lot of others- to choose how easy or hard it should be for other aspirants?

I'm incredibly grateful that members of the Corroboree will freely share in PM's what theyd b bashed for doing in the open forum-

Personally, i have been witness to information and the applied wisdom of knowledge seekers that many will NEVER even knew existed, let alone be available for 'L plates'.

And as i've asked, I have received- so it really shits me to notice that others follow the prescribed doctrine of "let them work it out for themselves first".

Opinions, personalities and misinterpretations aside-

I think Aussies who are into plant knowledge could be kicking the ringhole out of some 'grand new vistas'.. after all, we're one of the most creative peoples on the planet.

Why urbanites who may have never touched any real wisdom are preventing others from finding it through their poorly understood concepts of initiation,

others are simply scripting a better new alternative

to all the objections that robotically arise.

While we send ppl of to google and search engines, we could be giving exactly what they want and need and getting one more warrior for the planet all suited up and ready to rumble- rather than one more research geek who is getting lost in all the mess.

Edited July 26, 2009 by G*P

[ThunderIdeal]

torsten seems to prioritise retaining the members who can talk about advanced stuff, and break new ground. this is torsten's forum by the way. with some of the threads lately it might seem like a chorus demanding more for this reason or that; none of us are entitled to demand anything so i'd remain grateful and keep my suggestions friendly.

i like what you're trying to do, bolster "our numbers" by streamlining all noobs' attempts to join the party. what do you suggest, in plain terms, that will achieve both of the outcomes i've mentioned? are you willing to patch information together into posts directed at noobs, or make and seed some torrents that don't contain overwhelming content?

[reptyle]

sucked in Torsten, i tap you on the snogle with a spiney cactus for fun! HAHAAHAHAH! Eat my shorts or my words or your own reflection if u must...p.s i dont really wanna hug you but if i could show you some respect in such a fashion i would do it...

[paradox]

But me, i'm an ideas man

"YOU....are an ideas man steve...."

"DAD.....i dug a hole..."

ahahahahahahahahahahmmmmmmm.....

[Torsten]

And sometimes I sense a very distinct volatility about you.

Did I mention I can be a real grumpy prick?

But me, i'm an ideas man- and one that is focused on solutions.

Personally I am an ACTION man rather than just ideas. After living in hippieville for more than a decade I have realised that ideas people are easy to come by, but people who actually get stuff done .... not so easy. That said, ideas also need to be implemented and this is often not as easy as the idea itself and quite frequently unproductive.

It is second nature for me to create a compelling vision and work backwards from there in whatever way achieves win/wins for everyone.

I try to keep both feet on the ground.

I still see that perhaps one could find an occasional grey between all these blacks and whites.

your values to do with 'being spoon fed'

about only 2 types of forums

the complex equivalances you indulge in, with ideas such as 'disrepsect'

Are really just your ideas. others may share them, but you really are using some momentum with this and unknowingly crafting a culture that really isnt serving our planet and its custodians aswell as it could- but its a magnificent beginning.

Choice is always a good thing to have, and freedom and flexibility in thinking also.

I created and maintained the forum the way I envisaged it and the way I observed it grow. I am not above changing direction, but I would need to see merit in such a change.

My black and white phrases above are short forms. Obviously there are more than two types of forums, but I was pointing to two extremes of forum styles. We already know that a blend of the two doesn't work in most cases and we know that either extreme will put the opposite extreme off. ie you make a noob forums and you will lose the seniors, you make a seniors forum and you will lose a few noobs.

I was raised with values of respect and politeness. Some of the latter might not be obvious due to my german background which does not allow for much superfluous niceties, but you will rarely find me wasting other people's time unless it can't be helped. I expect the same politeness from others in a community I have set up.

Because if it was working as smooth as silk- without (as you said:3 current threads already discussing the same thing-or even needing to) wouldn't it be great to re-evaluate what wasn't working in just that way that allows it all to work even better?

Maybe that's already being done? Maybe it has been tried differently several times before but failed? Maybe there is a big project in the works that eliminates this problem altogether?

I can engineer and implement ideas on a level that is seldom understood.

LOL. Ok, since this problem had already been addressed a few times before maybe you can tell us the obvious solution? And maybe you can even tell me what solution I am working on right now?

This attitude i'm sensing from you: about making me the moderator of a new noob forum- I mean seriously, there is great potential in acting on ideas like that -so why do I get it 'with lip'. I'd jump to that if I could b arsed with all that script/programming shite ( or even if someone lent me a book on how to use these board engines) yeah- what an idea. plenty better ones to emerge as time rolls on, im sure.

There is no script/programming shite for a subforum, so no excuses not to do it. Well, except for the one that says 'tried and failed'.

You seem to completely fail to understand the psyche of repetitive noob posters. In most cases these people have little or no interest to source information, but want it to be delivered to them predigested. You will find that even if we answer these noob posts that's usually the last we hear of them.

Who gives me the right to determine how much time is wasted before a person can get 'down to the stuff they are really interested in'

^^

I think you've pulled some mega insight out with this.

F*ck wasting time! we are living even beyond the age of information. I want to help youngins, noobs and stream entering novices save some time that I didn't get to. Aswell as the poor, bored and irritated seniors who will go elsewhere if they can't talk advanced talk.

Firstly let me correct this as I originally started this sentence with "who the hell are you" and then changes it to "what gives you the right". Somehow the who wasn't changed to what. Not a major change, but I can imagine some people drawing long bows that aren't there.

Secondly, if you want to spend/waste your time repeating the same things to noobs then that's fine with me. I DO NOT. I did it for a few years, but that was my limit. I still do it in certain situations, but only when I feel it worthwhile.

Maybe we should call this place 'not a beginners forum', but that would be exclusive and we are not like that. We love noobs, but we just don't like the same questions over and over.

WHO THE heck ARE YOU, and a lot of others- to choose how easy or hard it should be for other aspirants?

I am the one who set up and runs this place. That's who.

I don't mind doling out some tough love if it empowers noobs to do their own research.

Personally, i have been witness to information and the applied wisdom of knowledge seekers that many will NEVER even knew existed, let alone be available for 'L plates'.

You really are full of yourself. On one hand you complain about exclusion yet you yourself claim the very foundation of exclusion by elevating youself above others.

And as i've asked, I have received- so it really shits me to notice that others follow the prescribed doctrine of "let them work it out for themselves first".

I don't think anyone has said work it out yourself. They've said: "this is already answered elswhere on the forums so go and have a look there first before askign the same thing again". That's what UTSE means!

I think Aussies who are into plant knowledge could be kicking the ringhole out of some 'grand new vistas'.. after all, we're one of the most creative peoples on the planet.

You haven't travelled much, right?

While we send ppl of to google and search engines, we could be giving exactly what they want and need and getting one more warrior for the planet all suited up and ready to rumble- rather than one more research geek who is getting lost in all the mess.

A bit of practical experience will show you that not all grand theory translates to results the way one hopes.

[Torsten]

torsten seems to prioritise retaining the members who can talk about advanced stuff, and break new ground.

In a nutshell, but not as harsh as it sounds. It is most certainly my mission to bring this knowledge to as many people as possible, but I also want to keep it evolving and interesting. having constantly repeating threads serves a tiny minority [ie the one noob who just asked the question] while wasting time for the majority. That's what I try to avoid.

I personally feel that many of the repetitive noob questions we get will not go away with a FAQ or a webpage. After all, the most common question I get by email for example is about the types of woodrose seeds, even though I have a VERY detailed explanation of this topic on the shop site. I realised that these people simply don't want to read a single word more than a perfectly tailored answer to their question. So even if I copy and paste sections from my webpage they will still repeat the exact question I have just answered broadly.

So, to me the repetitive noob question and reply is usually not about actually providing a keen learner with the answer he seeks, but providing a lazy thrill seeker with the convenience he wants. I realise that some noobs are genuine about their questions, but you will also find that these noobs will respond positively to UTSE as indeed they are seeking information and they don't care how it is delivered to them [even if it takes a bit of effort on their part].

Let's also not forget that the majority of noobs we get here are extremely diligent about the tone of this forum and already know to do their research first. I think many of them appreciate the fact that if they have done the basic stuff themselves and have shown some effort, then they will be rewarded with a wealth of knowledge that will help them move ahead very quickly.

It's a balance and while this forum quite dynamically tilts one way and the other over time, I am generally happy with the overall level of posting as it achieves what I envisaged for this place.

[reptyle]

Well that was long winded and boring...

haha the psyche of a noob...

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sn...6_7573625_n.jpg

Now i dont wanna compare salt and rice here cos salt will always win but Torsten i really think your beat here, just give into the obvious changes being suggested and everything will flow much more easily.

[planthelper]

i tried realy hard to understand what gp's posts are saying, but most of the sentences just did not form any line of thought inside my brain. so i read it again, nothing... maybe i have to concentrate more, maybe i am not intellectual enough, but maybe most of it is just funny semi poetic, drug induced, wish, wash.

i don't think gp or reptyle's criticism has any merits at all, if you think this forum ought to answere any newbies question, than thats your opinon and thats ok, but to attack torsten in some ways, is not ok.

there are many forums which get noob questions answered by people who themselves are just learning and i think this is very good thing.

very often noob questions here get answered by newer members, and some of this threads, in fact turn into very new and very comprehensive threads about what ever given topic.

it's not search engines versus real conversations, it's use the searchengine before you ask versus ask without having done any research for youreselve before asking.

i can't see any good suggestions made by reptyle or gp in this thread, so i don't know what reptyl referes to in the reply just above.

i find torstens posts never boring, but i can say that i don't understand anything you reptyle are posting (i am refering to say some posts you made at ea, which have as a main topic that the goverment is about to get you, because you will save the world for us. sorry if i have not understood this right, but as i said before, i can't make any sence out of those dmt inspired posts, as said, i can read them again and again, but my brain fails to turn them into a storyline.

another thing that upsets me is that, people claim some people here think they are the elite and the sun shines out there arse, and i have been called this aswell, and why, because i rejected to answere a question via privat pm!!!

now look, i have answered many questions even via pm, although it's a very wastefull process, but how would you explain the differences between viridis and carthaginensis, just because a total stranger asks you do do so?

yes and than, because i did not answere the question, i get name called...

worst, i did try to answere the question...

and my thank you was abuse.

and than people like reptyle and gp jump the ban waggon, oh yeah, those sab people think they are on top of anybody else, and are of too a high decent to answere noobs questions.

i get upset now, and i think it's good it comes out, reptyle i think i can't remeber any posts of you adding information to this forum, all you did is to use this forum to obtain materials, and other forums (and i guess this one aswell) to fill threads with copy and paste literature about your goverment conspiracy thing.

you only took from this place, and used the forum as a platform for your soapbox,

i hardly think you are the person to tell anybody here what could be done to improof this place.

[Torsten]

It might be an interesting observation that both reptyle and GP believe they have a higher level of awareness and enlightenment, yet contribute here so little of substance or even sense. Earlier today I clicked the 'recent posts' feature for both of them and for reptyle it's all empty babble. So I find it amusing that reptyle criticises this forum for lack of substance. Right back atcha buddy. As for GP, it's a mixed bag. Some substance, but mostly blowing his own enlightenment trumpet. Guys, I created the 'spirituality and philosophy' forum so that stuff like that doesn't clutter up what I personally want to read.

Ignoring them usually works well, which is probably why GP had to start his own thread on the topic even though it is already being discussed at length elsewhere. The only reason why I did get into this discussion is because GP did actually pick up on one issue that has been a problem at SAB and others forums forever. What he obviously doesn't know that several attempts have been made at solving the issue even though it seems he thinks of himself as having invented the wheel. I've been working on a solution for the last 4 months which is a culmination of many years of experience and learning from watching others forums and this one fail with their solutions. yes, I am being intentionally cryptic because I don't want to reveal my plans until it's all ready and in place. Besides a good whinge, I can't find any ideas or solutions being offered by GP. I urge folks to actually look at merit and content rather than grand schemes of nothingness.

It is not this thread that made me think a lot about the issue at hand. It's actually the other thread with the poll that got me thinking. When I logged in a couple of hours after the thread was started, nearly half the 10 respondents said that this place was exclusive and unfriendly to noobs. Interestingly that number stayed pretty much the same while the positives soared ahead. The excluded folks now only make up a tiny percentage of total. But they are there and I really hate the idea that anyone would feel that way. I mean, any established group is going to be somewhat focussed on each other and possibly neglecting of newcomers, but we usually make a point of exactly NOT being so. So yeah, that poll gave me a lot more to think about than what GP had to say, but as it both happened at the same time I got caught up in this thread.

[G*P]

What might be even more interesting to observe, is that this

is all childish.. Schoolyard politics shit. A lot of this site and its culture.

I made a couple of observations of Torsten that he continues to demonstrate..

And Planthelper- you seem to be following Torstens example- its a bad one. This is my point- these attitudes, (and yours here) do not help anything to grow- except a persons own moods and opinions.

Moving in new directions- thanks for noticing my writing. Curious isn't it, when you look for the punchline only to realise that it's already inside your own head?

So it'll be very interesting down the track ( maybe in a month or 2) after my words are forgotten, to notice the change that they've already begun to make more of.

With you guys.. senior members-Im making observations.. and being attacked for solutions that im offering, to people who are happy with things the way they are. My bad. A little slap, to get a whole lot of energy focused into making more and more sense of my hypnotically structured posts.

Regardless of knowing that I mean well, I think you guys (as representatives of the community)

can really just automatically appear to come off as wankers to people who read these pages.

Now Torsten- I'm sorry, but I just dont think you know your own forum. Whats my 'attitude' or someones ego against the backdrop of taking on advice that will actually help your efforts? Use it or ignore it- but to steep your own pages (as a moderator) with personal attacks and grumpy, dumb old man shit is just flat out f*cked!

Other members are pm-ing to let me know they feel the same, and to simply move some other forums.

You see some grandeur delusions in the mirror of your members?

Funny to build an island that one must defend like his own country, isnt it? egos ;) Haha

Peace out

ba da da daDat

(sound the trumpets)

Edited July 27, 2009 by G*P

[incognito]

You really are full of yourself

BINGO

jeez reptyle what have u ever contributed asides from your grandiose god-complex??

geez ive heard the rumours and ur definately doing a good job at confirming them.

Instead of fuken whinging..... answer the questions,, contribute???

Are your egos that craving for attention that you have to start this bullshit??

Shamanism? i think u have along way to go fellas.

Theres lots of info here- look!!!

and thereb are alot of people here into shamanism and spirituality, they just dont feel the need to wear it like a jacket for the purpose of their own egos.

grow up guys.

Regardless of knowing that I mean well, I think you guys (as representatives of the community)

can really just automatically appear to come off as wankers to people who read these pages.

GP ur doin a real good job of coming of as a real cocksucker in a god-complex bun yourself, oh the irony.

your boring man, heard it all before, come up with something new and original. yaaawwwnn.

Edited July 28, 2009 by incognito

[Yeti101]

As much as it is against my better judgement to comment in this thread I'm going to anyway.

I think it is true that this community's expectation in terms of doing your own research (amongst other things) for new participants on this forum is much higher than it is in other places. But I think that's a good thing. High expectations are a good thing. If you want to hang out on a board where anything goes and noobs never have to UTSE (strange how these two things go together) then there are other forums than SAB where you can do that.

You might not like it, but the level of knowledge here and the level (and amount) of new knowledge produced here are a lot better than on other forums that have vast membership and low expectations.

And yes, people here can be abrupt. I've been put in my place more than once But there is a limit to what you can teach people (and a limit to what they can achieve) if you pander to them.

[AndyAmine.]

IMO each main forum should have a pinned;

'The Newbie Questions Thread'

(The thread where you can ask for newbie advice and silly questions you can't find on the search engine)

I've seen this work well on one forum I helped mod which was similar to this one with similar levels or higher of transient traffic.

Funny enough, these threads have sometimes been the source of some of the best info on the board and answered things that hadn't actually been asked/answered very well or at all because they were thought to be too newbish/silly to bother.

Also, just an idea but I don't suppose its possible to put up a temporary banner or something for new members that lasts for 5-10 days and saying something to the effect of:

'Notice to new members, please use the search engine to check for your answers before posting'

The space on the yellow bar in between '( Log Out ) My Blog' would be effective.

Another idea was to add a 'Pinned FAQ' and 'Search Engine' thread to each forum as well?

Edited July 28, 2009 by AndyAmine.

[mu!]

and a 'formatting for noobs' thread