Black rot & Trichocerei

[kadakuda]

i am fairly positive it is a fungus, which one? i am still trying to gather books on plant pathogens. if it truly is a fungus, pretty sure it is, it spreads through spores.

fungus attacks when something isn' t right, generally it needs an entry point. a break, split, cut, bump, emerging roots, a smack, insect bite you name it. its like inoculating a jar with mushrooms spores, ti needs good conditions to germinate. who knows what they really need to germinate...i hope some of the books have some insight. because bridgesii seems to be fairly commonly affected worldwide, i am guessing the skin on that species is less able to defend against fungal attacks in comparison to other species of cacti. another interesting observation is bridgesii and the like that are grafted to certain species are more resistant, although when grafted to species that are also commonly affected by black spot it si still easily infected. for example T. bridge grafted to myrtle didnt seem to much affected, and i even leave the grafts out in the rain for days on end without much affect (they still can get it though, especially if you damage the skin!). however when grafted on hylocereus, another cactus prone to various fungal pathogens, the scions are still easy to get it. i have tried this grafting experiment with both bridg and pach and both readily get it when skin is damaged/left in the wet for extended periods/grow super fast....all of which can lead to weakened skin/flesh defense.

Here is a t. pachanoi that i let the spot spread and tried to aid it (warm and wet). it eventually turned into what we all call "stem rot".

here is the pach when totally fuckered.

can also see that once the initial rot has gone through, other fungi species move in. i counted 3 species sporulating at the base of this one before i decided to chuck it out.

here is a tbm with emerging roots, showing infection site of some kind of fungus

this one you cant see the emerging root, but it later spread so i decided to cut it open, and you could see the vascular bundle extending out there towards the skin, so i am guess root?

some seed grown pachanoi left in the rain for 5 weeks straight. i notice a lot of variation in the same batch of seeds, which makes me think its just a skin defense thing that varies a lot...so could probably be bred out as a good trait.

a tbm that is grown right beside the above pachanoi, same rain period (and when it rains, it fucking RAINS here!

when i am able to find PDA locally i will try culturing it and identifying it, then seeing what species and how it best infects.

i dont really think humidity/dry etc has a lot to do with it now, i used to think so cause my bridg (all of them!) would always rot here in summer...when its rainy season. but it seems because the cortex is so juicy and wet anyway, all the fungus really needs to do is germinate and break the waxy skin, which would depend on many factors and maybe even species (ie bridgesii skin is thinner, or somehow weaker than other cacti for example).

i also tried some various fungicides (honestly no idea what, they were all in chinese) and they didnt work either. i am thinking its because the fungus goes deeper into the cactus where the fungicides dont reach. i have found that cutting the rot out and using sulfur powder mixed with mater and sprayed on healthy *looking* flesh stops rot in its tracks almost every time.

just thinking out loud, not proved anything, random thoughts and experiments love to hear more of your guys opinions

[mutant]

Thanks for thoughts Kada...

It seems it might be Erwinia carotovora [soft rot]

The TBMs that you sent me have proved positive too in one occasion where they got lots of rain... but they healed alright... but I am not at all convinced it can be stopped by cutting the infection off...

interesting thoughts about grafted plants too...

I now think that maybe one the most important issues is that of a quarantine... F.e. seed grown plants sure have thinner skin... so they can catch this from the air too, propably ... which makes me worry a bit too... I mean I don't want my seed grown trichos get this too!! How do I know that the suspect year old bridgesii I mentioned earlier got it from the seed and not my mature bridgesiis in the roof [that was actually cut heavily throughout this year to propagate resulting a heavier fruiting of the black fucker? [more of it in the air, more possibilities for others to catch it?]]

I am looking forward to bit's take on this, since he said he didn't have it before that seed grown bridgesiis.

I also hope for a contribution from the 'official' experts [smith, trout]

Edited August 31, 2009 by mutant

[kadakuda]

*if* its a fungus, quarantine will be pretty pointless as many of these pathogens are not host specific and spread through all different families.

The TBMs that you sent me have proved positive too in one occasion where they got lots of rain... but they healed alright... but I am not at all convinced it can be stopped by cutting the infection off...

it may not be fully prevented, but you can stop a particular spot from spreading easily enough. but there is good chance the plant will jsut keep getting new spots, thats one reason i think it probably has to do with individuality and disease resistance....ju7st like fruit trees and vegetable crops that have more disease prone lines, cacti aren't much different.

[mutant]

if it's Erwinia carotovora, its a bacterium

[san p]

hi,just throwing up another theory after recently getting some of this on a pachanoi cutting.

when it arrived it showed no signs of having "black rot",but it had been spiked by a bridgesii 's spines which was packaged along side it.the spines on this bridgesii have another unexpained accurance people here get on there cactus, blackening of the spines for some unknown reason.the black rot on the pachanoi has only appeared from these pin holes made by the blackend bridgsii spines.

[kadakuda]

rot needs some kind of entry point, broken skin is an ideal one

[AndyAmine.]

While on the subject of the back stuff on spines.

Some of my cacti (one Eileen in particular) that seems to regularly exude some kind of liquid from its upper spines (it may form on the lower ones too but not enough to create a drop although I do get a lot of the back stuff on the lower ones too),

At first I assumed that this was just morning due or something but this appears not to be the case as the same clear drop will stay on the spine for weeks (or longer) even through hot, windy days eventually turning semi solid and then turning into the blackshit.

For instance I have a drop on one spine that has been there for over 1.5 months.

I have some pictures if anyone is interested?

[mutant]

I think I have noticed this too in my bridgesii , which are black rot positive and all coming from the same clone... but yeah please put up a photo, it's a nice idea to compile all [seemingly relative] data together in one thread. If we cannot do anything, we can at least learn to love it

or even reduce the scarrings - I do regard them ornamentals, like I already said...

[lofty86]

Should i cut out the rot befor it spreads or would cutting the little fellas leave them open to more decay?

[mutant]

stop watering, put in as dry and as sunny spot you can.... I say be drastic only if you suspect that the rot has gone into the flesh [it will be softy] , near the soil.... there are some reports you can temporarily stop it by applying fungicide or something...

Edited September 9, 2009 by mutant

[willyJ]

Hi guys, I have a couple of nice bridgesii which have developed black spines over the winter here, I moved them out of the rain a good while ago and they're doing fine. My question is I'm moving house soon and was thinking about sticking some bridgesii in the ground in my new place, if they're in the ground will this make them more susceptable to rot than if I just pot them up into nice big pots that can be moved for the winter?

Thanks in advance.

[mutant]

if they're in the ground will this make them more susceptable to rot than if I just pot them up into nice big pots that can be moved for the winter

dont think so, they are supposed to do fine in the ground, depends how much cold and rain though....

[mac]

Im just curious about the use of powered Cinnamon being used for cuttings to ward off rot, would this help with breakouts of black rot in established plants ?

[strangebrew]

It is a fungus because mancozeb has always worked for me - mancozeb is a fungicide. The only time it hasn't was when the outbreak was particularly deep and nasty and it went quickly to the vascular core & besides the mancozeb was past it's use-by date.

A fungus outbreak occuring in humid weather makes sense to me.

[mutant]

Could a fungicide be effective with a bacterium ? I would guess so...

[strangebrew]

Yeah they can, Mancozeb does work on both actually. Bacteria also likes a moist environment. Hmm, back to square one. lol

Does blackrot ever affect the cut surface of a cutting or is it only the skin? I can't recall ever getting it on the cut surface.

[mac]

i have only really seen the rusty red type rot set in on a cut surface of a cutting

I did have a nasty rot develop on some spach cuts i experimented with sealing them over with wax

Thats the reason i wondered if cinnamon would be effective as fungicide for black rot if in fact it is a fungus ?

its used most often with Orchid propagation & i have heard second hand accounts of it being used on cacti & succulents & seems a more natural solution than using some of the other products available

Powdered Cinnamon sprinkled on newly cut areas works very effectively as a fungicide and helps in the healing process for the wound. You can also make a waterproof mix with Cinnamon and Elmer’s Glue to apply to cut areas – this will last longer than just the application of Cinnamon

Edited September 28, 2009 by mac

[kadakuda]

Does blackrot ever affect the cut surface of a cutting or is it only the skin? I can't recall ever getting it on the cut surface.

yes it does. i have a 3 headed penis i tried this on. i cut all the tips and all acquired black rot right through.

[zelly]

i have a 3 headed penis

WoW.

No wonder all the ladies love you!

[kadakuda]

lol.

well, they did until the tips turned black now yall need to find a cure fast so i can get back to prowling the streets looking for tri-holed ladies.

[strangebrew]

QUOTE

Does blackrot ever affect the cut surface of a cutting or is it only the skin? I can't recall ever getting it on the cut surface.

yes it does. i have a 3 headed penis i tried this on. i cut all the tips and all acquired black rot right through.

So it started from the cut surface and not the skin? I didn't mean the cut surface is never affected rather that IME the infection starts from the skin. If this is the case I wonder why?

Edited September 29, 2009 by strangebrew

[kadakuda]

because the skin covers the entire surface of the plant, so there is no other site for infection but the surface? this makes sense if its fungal and spread by spore. it lands and needs to germinate----the skin. but it will also affect cut parts, probably not seen as much because how often do we have open cut cacti laying around in comparison to how many un cut plants around although i would think that skin is better for germinating spores because once it spreads under, it is fairly safe and protected from the skin, and has a nice moist place to spread. cut surfaces tend to heal and callous being hard and dry, probabyl not so easy to germinate on/spread in. just a theory.

[mutant]

strangebrew>>>

Does blackrot ever affect the cut surface of a cutting or is it only the skin? I can't recall ever getting it on the cut surface.

you probably mean it fruits in the skin, because we don't really know how/when it gets it. Yeah, it does it's thing in the skin surface only IME

My up-to-now conclusions are

1. It lives inside, near the surface, 'fruits' on the skin of bridgesii's & pachanoi's [T also mentioned peruvs].

2. It probably transfers through cactus seed too. Cutting a plant and then observing 'black rot' stains on the skin is no proof it transfers through the air and cuts ~ cause these clones that behave in this way already had it.

3. It might have to do with alkaloids on these plants or/and the heavy cloning some strains have received.

[incognito]

the 'black rot' is actually an interdiminsional being, which has hitched a ride back to this earthen reality by psychonaughts of the trichocereus persuasion. It goes back to inhabit the trichocereus and lives, biding its time for 2012, when it will come out of its chrysalis stage and transform into alien mantoids, which will start devouring all known life on earth. If you are smart, u will start loving the black rot whilst in its laval stage and maybee just maybee they will show you some mercy. you have been warned.

[Pacha]

I'm not sure it's a fungus, I notice it can happen out of the blue on totally healthy plants, PCs got it as well. Anyhow, it doesn't spread and dries pretty fast to a small white scar. I stopped worrying so much about it.