Insecurity, self consciousness and anxiety

[MindExpansion]

Discussion with PS has led me to post this up for some discussion.

Insecuity is a devil of mine, makes my life that little bit harder and no doubt contributes to my depression.

Self consciousness is another one which is inherently linked with the insecurity.

Wherever I go or wherever I am, these two demons make me uncomfortable, constantly worried about what others might be thinking of me, they are sometiems so intense that i cannot act the wya i want to act even if its little things like not wanting to change seats on the bus because someone might look at me, orn ot wanting to close my eyes on the bus cause i might look stupid etc etc. so you can see that it can be quite detrimental to my lifestyle...it even impacts how i interact with my closest friends.

These two things also lead to anxiety, my social anxiety was less existant (while the insecurity was still there) til I started smoking the greens a couple of years ago, where i used to get high and get so anxious about how i appeared to others or how what i said sounded to others that i would look at the ground and not talk for hours when with friends.

So finally the paranoia and anti-socialism got to me and i kicked the weed not that long ago...but im still stuck with this social anxiety, think its because for 3 years i havent put myself in social situations...i think i get along pretty well with people...just too scared to initiate contact, possibly for fear that they wont like me or theyll think im a tool or something like that...this is crippling and recent realisations that i have very few real world friends that i see regularly has exacerbated my sadness, particularly knowing that my gf might be going away in the not too distant future.

Now I've never been one to have loads of friends, well not since i started smoking anyway, usually kept a small group of close friends, and back in the day i had a wide group of acquantances, but after starting on the greens i culled them off and only had the small group of close friends which i was quite happy with, but now that ive moved cities and with the prospect of moving again next year, I want to get rid of this anxiety so i can make new friends.

Also the insecurity is crippling and plays on my mind all the damn time, want to get rid of it so badly.

Does anyone have any advice, open to everything from trip based therapies to meditaion and thought exercises, whatever you've got...I'm also thinking this isn't a problem limited to me so maybe some other people have been through the same thing and have tips on how to get past it, and maybe some others will get something out of what im hoping will be a productive thread.

Peace

[naja naja]

I precribe u full bush doof immersion. Dance! And fuck wat other people think.

[strangebrew]

Very common problem man, don't feel like you're the only one. Giving up the greens was a good step in the right direction.

Cognitive behaviour therapy is the thing usually recommended to break those self-defeating thought loops. There seem to free courses all over the place these days because it is so common. Just give your local mental health service a ring to see what's available in your area.

just too scared to initiate contact, possibly for fear that they wont like me or theyll think im a tool or something like that

Most people are tools in one way or another, we've all got our own peculiar idiosyncrasies and it's highly unlikely you're any worse than anyone else. Welcome to the club.

[MindExpansion]

Cheers strangebrew I'm seeing a psychologist on and off but we've been talking about different things to this, ill make sure to bring it up and bring up the CBT see what she has to say.

At naja, been to a number of doofs, got very messy, and very paranoid and self conscious, possibly cause of the smoking as well sicne i havent been to one since i stopped smoking...and cid+greens can do funny things to my head...so that actually always amplified my insecurity and paranoia, perhaps minus the greens might be a little different

Peace

[naja naja]

u r forgetting the vital ingedient, MDsumthingsumthing I believe

[Siggor]

many self beliefs tend to very false. all that really matters is how you feel and want to feel. with high sense of morals ethics, and ecology.

the way i got through alot of my stuff myself was continuous breakdowns then questioning, stripping away layers then rebuilding, it was a lot of pain and work and still doing work on myself, but i have never been this happy as i am today. the lows are still there but never as before.

my suggestion would be see the things you want to change, don't dwell on them, and see the behaviour you want to replace it with, a positive behaviour, with feeling and conviction, then continue to build on those positives.

[Chiral]

I know that many people can act their ways around and out of these problems including myself...I have the ability to forcefeed people random nice comments to get them to warm to me and don't give up until they feel comfortable..you will have noticed me constantly apologizing at that nursery and then going from them hating us to thinking wow those 2 guys where so nice...it's all acting and some people can wear different hats for different occasions...it's a very tried theory and I have quiet a lot of faith in it myself...my old man was a right bastard and very anti social and anti everything actually...but as soon as the outside world was entered he put on these remarkable characters and would seemingly waltz through the day looking like someone sooo confident and happy and well adjusted....was a fucking trip to watch him actually.

I actually taught my first wife this technique and she actually learned it soooo well that she became a top notch manager in a huge company and was offered all sorts of lucrative deals and offers to stay...she often said that she used the tactic at work and she can't believe how easy it is...she used to be my best friend and we tripped so much so often together we really knew each other very well...but she suffered from over self analyzing herself during these times and I would have to talk her through it constantly...she stopped tripping and gear altogether... took up the acting and that was the end of us....look pretty soon there will be a bunch of us all around the camp fire and we can discuss this in way more detail but I know you... and like you say to me... you don't see my issues....I'm acting them out of my persona when I'm out and around the public...it's probably why I don't like going out because its exhausting sometimes putting on a positive face and a different hat.

H.

Edited April 18, 2009 by Hunab Ku

[kenny]

I began responding to this and wound up writing a life story, so lets try keep it a bit shorter

From about the same age I realized my ambitions and interests were far different than those of the friends I had. Hanging out and partying, being a hooligan, having a hot looking car and brand name clothes, talking about mundane shit and being oblivious of what is really happening around the world. These were the typical traits of just about everyone I surrounded myself with.

It bothered me from about the age of 17 but as time went on I found myself becoming more detached from the pseudo reality these people were living in. Maybe pseudo is the wrong word, because it was as real is it probably ever going to get for them. For me though, it was just plain wrong, and the more I tried to express myself the less I realized I had in common with them.

As it's easier to lose friends than make new ones, I lost pretty much all of them. From then on It was me myself and I pretty much. Which hasn't been all that bad. Less distractions have lead me on a path of self discovery and it is quite humbling.

I do have friends, mostly musicians, but our relationship exists within that common interest. Beyond that, and the odd beer, we have nothing in common.

In public, I still get fleeting feelings of paranoia and anxiety. This however I put down to the fact that I don't surround myself with many people. It's natural that if you are more of a social being, you would be more confident your ability to impress others and less focused on their perception of you.

Anyway. It is in the discovery and acceptance of who you are that these feelings and fearful perceptions can be put to rest. I am an introvert, there is no escaping it.

Just as others live in their bubbles and ignore, what I consider to be, more important aspects of being a human being. I live in mine and live life. So next time I'm no the bus and someone looks at me and I feel paranoid that they are giggling at my no name clothes. I can have a quiet giggle at the fact that they will likely never experience the cessation of time and space while riding a spirit turtle...... lol wut ;)

[incognito]

do u play any team sports??

maybee registering in a team and getting out being active and involved may help?

[MindExpansion]

Kenny, thank you so much for taking the time to write that response, it describes so much how i feel about life and those people around me at the moment.

Its the idea of dismissing the anxiety and self consciousness that arises form wondering if someone is thinking you look dumb or something that I can't seem to manage, i say to myself 'your being silly what does it matter what they think' but the idea doesn't stick, I still feel self conscious.

Is it just time that changes that, or is there something you did that I can do to make it more real when I dismiss the self consciousness? Or something you might think would help...anyone?

Again thank you for your post, I am amazed to see how similar some of your experiences are to mine, but also glad that its not just something wrong with me. Please keep the advice flowing

Peace

[t st tantra]

yeh,nicely put kenny.....many/most here prob have variations on that theme going on in their lives......if youre under 25 then yes it will most likely improve with time,maybe as you find a place in the world you feel is yours,whatever that means......

do you have spiritual beliefs?

t s t .

seriously m e ,i expect most people ,like myself find this thread a bit surprising,or would if we too werent 'large and containing contradictions'.........you seem from your posting history quite intelligent ,level headed and confident..........

Edited April 18, 2009 by t st tantra

[MindExpansion]

Thanks tst.

I think it is easy to be confident on the internet, which is good because that way i can get to know people then when I meet them, while still plenty self conscious, I am less anxious, because i already know what they are like, and here I find a group of generally likeminded people, even if only likeminded in the sense that people's quirks and ideas are well accepted for the most part.

My spiritual beliefs are still being formed, I don't believe in any religion of sorts, and consider myself an atheist, but I do not think that spirituality and religion are one in the same and cannot exist without the other.

I think what kenny said is so true about sort of not feeling as though i fit in with most of the people I am surrounded with, many of my old friends i now see as people i coundn't spend much time with, just because of such vast differences in world views.

@ incog, i dont do any team sport no, i have started fire twirling with a group of people at the uni...but im still finding it hard to become social there, so most times find myself sitting on my own, anxious to go and talk to people...might not be a bad idea to take up a sport where i have to talk to people, but do you think that would help with the underlying insecurity and self-consciousness?

Peace all

[Statakak]

Yep, exactly Kenny!

Yeah M E, I've been like that most of my life, but eventually it got to me big time as futureless absolute desperate depression, from which I thought I would not live beyond.

But I thought of everybody I know and what they would think if it ended there. And that made me angry that their mostly such shitheads, as my annihilation would validate strengthen and justify their shitfullness and abrasive, destructive attitudes.

But really these people who may ridicule others or make them feel inferior are just desperately trying to hold onto their own sense of identity as a normal member of society, but don't seem to realize that they are just fully domesticated, pop culture tools. (Tools in both senses of the word) Their ridicule is what maintains adherence to their pop culture and encourages assimilation and punishes deviation. And in doing so they can inflict severe mental anxiety, trauma and ideas of self annihilation thoughts on those reasonable, nice and caring people who leave themselves exposed.

I would defiantly consider myself an introvert but really I like all people and I love socializing with decent people and have a few really good friends, it's just soooo many are fucked up beyond my ability to tolerate.

But still I am (nearly)always polite and smile allot to make people comfortable (Or to encourage them not to feel obliged to attack).

So I retracted from trying to be accepted (I always thought I just need to keep putting myself in social situations and I would learn to deal with people more effectively but it didn't happen).

Now I feel much more at ease in all social situations as I know that I don't have a social problem it's society with the problems, my retraction from it is just self preservation, to maintain resistance to destructive stupidity and help decent people whenever I can.

So now I can walk down the street or go to supermarkets barefoot with daggy cloths, but with a smile in my heart that gives me a force-shield, right of passage and a beacon of positive realness that seems to be respected (or feared).

Heres something quite interesting and relevant, it's from "The Tragedy of the Commons," Garrett Hardin, Science, 162(1968):1243-1248.

I just read through it a couple of days ago as it is part of the required reading for "Aboriginal Environmental Management" subject I doing as part of my Environmental Earth Science degree.

I would love to make a link to the page somehow because its awesomely interesting, but theres like a password and shit. I might be able to put it in "my controls"/"My Albums' or something and make a link. I'll think about it some other day, have to go (big assignment) this has been enough procrastination for one day.

Pathogenic Effects of Conscience

The long-term disadvantage of an appeal to conscience should be enough to condemn it; but it has serious short-term disadvantages as well. If we ask a man who is exploiting a commons to desist "in the name of conscience," what are we saying to him? What does he hear? -- not only at the moment but also in the wee small hours of the night when, half asleep, he remembers not merely the words we used but also the nonverbal communication cues we gave him unawares? Sooner or later, consciously or subconsciously, he senses that he has received two communications, and that they are contradictory: 1. (intended communication) "If you don't do as we ask, we will openly condemn you for not acting like a responsible citizen"; 2. (the unintended communication) "If you do behave as we ask, we will secretly condemn you for a simpleton who can be shamed into standing aside while the rest of us exploit the commons."

Every man then is caught in what Bateson has called a "double bind." Bateson and his co-workers have made a plausible case for viewing the double bind as an important causative factor in the genesis of schizophrenia. [17] The double bind may not always be so damaging, but it always endangers the mental health of anyone to whom it is applied. "A bad conscience," said Nietzsche, "is a kind of illness."

To conjure up a conscience in others is tempting to anyone who wishes to extend his control beyond the legal limits. Leaders at the highest level succumb to this temptation. Has any president during the past generation failed to call on labor unions to moderate voluntarily their demands for higher wages, or to steel companies to honor voluntary guidelines on prices? I can recall none. The rhetoric used on such occasions is designed to produce feelings of guilt in noncooperators.

For centuries it was assumed without proof that guilt was a valuable, perhaps even an indispensable, ingredient of the civilized life. Now, in this post-Freudian world, we doubt it.

Paul Goodman speaks from the modern point of view when he says: "No good has ever come from feeling guilty, neither intelligence, policy, nor compassion. The guilty do not pay attention to the object but only to themselves, and not even to their own interests, which might make sense, but to their anxieties.'' [18]

One does not have to be a professional psychiatrist to see the consequences of anxiety. We in the Western world are just emerging from a dreadful two centuries-long Dark Ages of Eros that was sustained partly by prohibition laws, but perhaps more effectively by the anxiety-generating mechanisms of education. Alex Comfort has told the story well in The Anxiety Makers; [19] it is not a pretty one.

Since proof is difficult, we may even concede that the results of anxiety may sometimes, from certain points of view, be desirable. The larger question we should ask is whether, as a matter of policy, we should ever encourage the use of a technique the tendency (if not the intention) of which is psychologically pathogenic. We hear much talk these days of responsible parenthood; the coupled words are incorporated into the titles of some organizations devoted to birth control. Some people have proposed massive propaganda campaigns to instill responsibility into the nation's (or the world's) breeders. But what is the meaning of the word conscience? When we use the word responsibility in the absence of substantial sanctions are we not trying to browbeat a free man in a commons into acting against his own interest? Responsibility is a verbal counterfeit for a substantial quid pro quo. It is an attempt to get something for nothing.

If the word responsibility is to be used at all, I suggest that it be in the sense Charles Frankel uses it. [20] "Responsibility," says this philosopher, "is the product of definite social arrangements." Notice that Frankel calls for social arrangements -- not propaganda. "

Anyway chin-up Mind Expansion, you'll be fine!

At least your in the right place, theres allot of good people on this forum.

Take care.

[Uncle. S]

Hey mate, i know a lot of you guys on here are anti-alcohol, but im introverted too and honestly the best thing you could ever do is get a job at a cool pub. You will make close friends very quickly and its like a party all the time. So fun! Also you will boost your confidence seeing all your customers that seem so respectable, embarrassing themselves and acting like dicks. Seriously do it! It's the same as being out every weekend meeting people but without the hangovers and without worrying all week about how stupid you were being.

[devance]

Know the feeling to well.

If I hadn't wore eyeglasses, nerd.

I would of gone surfing right a way.

Nice people.

Like the old movie [Muscle Beach] which had the nerd trying to be socially accepted by delievering joints on the beach.

Didn't make him a surfer but got some help in it from professional surfers.

Movie was in the 1970 something during the crap U.S repulilicans declared war on everything but the Banks which they just rescued

by a massive payback from being in power for 30 years..

They associate drug with their brand of polilitical acceptance.

If the Hippies didn't go along the State,Vietnam war then by Damn they will pay and have for 30 years.

Ergo the war on plant drugs.

I not a specialist on socialism but England not doing very well.

I not a drug expert except if you can raise it then thats the legal way.

[a grow it yourself if that a addictive interrest]but a powder transport becomes criminal interprise.

So many people can make better informed comments, but thats are better as a drug sanity as I can come with.

[Evil Genius]

Hi ME! Have you ever tried looking in NLP? A lot of the NLP theories are outdated bullshit but there are also many good mindgames for fighting anxieties and insecurities! But make sure not to end up with the kind of NLP where people just try to fake being secure! Thats not a help! It just makes you look better! There are some interesting mind patterns that can be used in order to fight anxieties! Getting rid of insecurity is a very complex process with countless small pieces to the puzzle that all need the be there! The best way of getting secure is to live a good life that makes you proud of yourself! Thats not as easy as it sounds! You know best about all your weak points! Try to overcome them one by one in order to get a better person! Try being the best person you can be! This should help you to feel like a better person! Insecurity in the company of other people is another point! Being self assured in conversations is a skill that can be learned like any other language! Its a gigantic topic but if your interested in this particular stuff, i can point you on some sites where you can download audio books! bye Eg

[holymountain]

hey man

i remember when i was smoking waaay too much and would get very paranoid. wouldn't leave the house, answer the phone and stuff.. could hardly talk to people except close freinds...once i stopped it took a while to get back to normal. what you are going through could just be your brain readjusting itself. having met you i think you are cool. you didn't seem self conscious so it's actually surprised me to hear this. but like hunab said we all manage to put on persona's of some sort...but still rest assured that when you meet people they will probably think you are a good bloke. i know i did. what you are going through will pass. giving up the weed is always a good move and is a good first step if you want to be happy with who you are. in fact it's pivotal if you want to figure out just who you are in the first place. the amount of growing i did as a person in the first few months off weed was astonishing. as with most things the next step to healing is to talk about it. having the guts to open up about stuff proves you are ready to overcome it and if you are brave enough to talk about it then you are brave enough to beat it.

good luck with it dude. i'll see you soon.

peace

[ThunderIdeal]

bro

to start with, just say the word and i'll hook you up with a lot of ebooks, mostly NLP. some of it's probably very similar to CBT. i'm too lazy to bother with writing down lists of my thoughts and that kinda shit but the offer is there.

i think part of this stems from our tribal roots, humans spent most of their evolution in these little packs where you didn't really have to interact with strangers, and everybody around you would know and appreciate your qualities, you knew them and they knew you and nothing too unexpected would happen. i also think you'd be shocked at how many seemingly confident people feel the same way, maybe not, but often these people have sacrificed their individuality to some extent. never think that you feel the pain of insult deeper than anybody else.

you do start to grow out of it, and i hope 25 isn't the ceiling for that, i'll tell you next year

pot is really no help as far as having stable mental states go, but i must agree about MDsomethingsomething. sure, you will be very friendly to people you may not give a crap about the next day, but it's good while it lasts... having the extra energy, and total sense of satisfaction, so that you take the time/effort to tune in to what others are feeling and find out what's cracking in their little world. then you are happy about it afterwards to some extent because, even though you lost a few more inhibitions than you would have liked, at least you got out there and didn't hold back, showed your true face to lots of people and funnily enough they didn't tell you to fuck off.

i'm not saying drugs are the answer but mdma is the best social drug because you don't lose clarity the same way you do with alcohol, and it can eliminate self-absorption, i think because of the oxytocin in combination with a real sense of happiness. obviously you take it where it's acceptable or where everybody else has had some as well. this would be my response to your request for trip-based therapy.

lots of great advice here already.

Edited April 20, 2009 by ThunderIdeal

[hutch]

Sorry to hear about your problems Mind, rest assured though you are not alone. Millions of people around the world are suffering through the same struggles you are day after day. I am one of them. I look at where my life is today and I wonder just how different it could have been if I hadn't been trying to live my life seeking the approval of others. I am not young anymore. I hit 49 in May and then it's only 1 year till the big 50. In a way I believe I can go back to the time I believe my problems all started. Got kicked in the mouth playing football in year 8 and knocked one front tooth out. My parents couldn't afford to have it seen to at the time and until I was 18 I went around with my hand over my mouth when talking, laughing, smiling and so on. I even had a red hot looking arts teacher laugh at me in front of the whole class and you can imagine what it was like from then on. I hated anybody looking at me and if they did I would always be thinking the worst. Your descriptions of yourself on a bus and unwilling to move seats is something I would do. I envy those on the bus who do change seats but it just not me so I make sure i got the right seat in the first place LOL. Maybe we are all just average and thats the problem. You see all the beautiful people out there and they seem to have it all. Good looks, wealth, can tell a great joke and so on. In a group if I was to attempt a joke I would blow it big time and they would be laughing at me and not with me. Wouldn't it be good to feel like you do when you have had a couple of e's. Mushies also have the same affect on me. I often wonder what happened to the dreams I had when I was young. I wanted to write and perform music. I do write songs today and I know I can belt em out in my shed on my 25 acre property with nobody around for miles to hear me but put me in front of another person and I just clog up. Things have got better over the years but unfortunately it took time and the help of a great wife and friend. You don't have to have a million friends to be a successful person. I really hope you get the help you need to overcome this problem. Just remember!!! You are not alone. Just reach out to those closest to you. We all need a hand up sometimes and it is nothing to be ashamed of. I will say a few prayers for you. Good luck.

Hutch

[MindExpansion]

Really really great to hear that this isn't an experience only of my own, ive always beat myself up about not having to ability to worry less about what others think, i mean to not be able to walk into a lecture late because i know the eyes of everyone there will be on me for a second is frustrating and stupid...but so hard to talk my way out of and it seems that many here have the same experiences in different settings which makes me feel a lot better in itself...perhaps it makes me normal rather than abnormal...

Still something that I need to work on, TI could you please post up those NLP links ill talk it through with my shrink next time i go back to see her.

Thank you all for the advice so far, and for sharing your experiences, please keep it coming

And thanks for the words of comfort too

Peace

[Siggor]

hey ya ME got loads and Loads of nlp, bandler, mckenna, tad james, chris howard, audio files, video files, and tons of ebooks, pm me can send along with your package

wouldn't ask your shrink bandler tends to ridicule them ALOT,

Edited April 21, 2009 by spudamore

[tomte]

Mind expansion nice thread, and cheers to everyone in sharing your stories. heh... i'm not sure why you are so worried, i mean i'm 30 (soon hehe) and i've been avoiding social situations my whole life, never had any friends since high school and never had a girlfriend either.

At the moment i'm living with my sister as i've been unemployed for 4 years now, don't own a car or house and ride everywhere on my bicycle. I was never able to hold a job for more than a year and always left on my own accord. I'm sorry to say that in the last 10 years I have been through quite a bit of suicidal ideation but being the biggest softy you can imagine its not something I could carry out. Mushies put an end to most of that negative thinking and the need for proper change out of my shyness, but like a lot of other people when I was unable to carry out that change slid into a depressed, restless state.

At its worst I couldn't ride in cars or the train without wanting to jump out, would not go into shopping centres or other places with people and found it difficult even being around my own family. I pretty much spent 2 years in my room, no internet and would spend all night obsessive-compulsively playing guitar. Some of the difficult experiences were when my body would just completely lock up with panic and anxiety and I would be on my hands and knees in agony.

Panic attacks in social situations were extremely embarrising as well and reinforce your own seclusion or justifications not to go out again. I really feel sorry for people going through anything like that. I'm still not 100% but what has helped to work my way out of it my way out of it has been developing meditational stability, reading up on a lot of buddhist theory and looking after a lovely mini fox terrier dog.

I think cultivating a high degree of compassion helps to conquer fear and has wonderful healing potential for yourself and others. One of the ways buddhists use to generate Bodhichitta is "The awareness that all sentient beings have been your mother in infinite previous lives". Its sounds a bit strange but removes the sense of 'other' among strangers and brings to life the interconnectedness of all being and concern for the welfare of any living thing. Philosophically I think the mind-only aspects of buddhist teachings are important. I like this phrase "Whatever appears is your own mind. Your mind from the start is free from fabricated extremes. Understanding this, do not take to mind [inherent] signs of subject and object". The teachings on emptiness are also important and helpful.

Anyway all the best with things mind expansion and if anyone has any ways that have helped them through this kind of problem please let us all know and offer some advice, thanks.

[t st tantra]

when i first had sid i would get urges to open car doors and just fall out.......it turned out that when i was 18months old a faulty car door had opened and my mother had grabbed me on my way out......once that was sorted it stopped!

t s t .

[Chiral]

My Psychiatrist told me yesterday that "avoidance is not your friend"...sure if you keep avoiding the situation it doesn't happen and you feel better but it does exacerbate it ten fold when you do finally get out and about...it was probably the only decent thing I took away from my session yesterday...oh and fist fulls of ridiculous drugs I have no need for....what is strange is the my Psych diagnosed me with the symptoms you are describing....I personally don't think I have social phobia and anxiety to any real degree...I hate going out sometimes but its more paranoia and laziness than true anxiety...I just hate how fake the outside is...until I'm in nature it's all just bullshit and commercialism for me.

Personally I see you as a bright young man with a lot to live for, and to tell the truth you blow me away with your inteligence...for your age you kick ass...when I was your age I couldn't get out of my own way let alone unravel chemical anlysis of certian indole rings and understand synapes and serotonin etc...your one smart cookie for 19 I tell ya....run with that and pretend no one else exists and you will go far my lil Einstein.

H.

[hutch]

I just hate how fake the outside is...until I'm in nature it's all just bullshit and commercialism for me.

Personally I see you as a bright young man with a lot to live for, and to tell the truth you blow me away with your inteligence...for your age you kick ass...when I was your age I couldn't get out of my own way let alone unravel chemical anlysis of certian indole rings and understand synapes and serotonin etc...your one smart cookie for 19 I tell ya....run with that and pretend no one else exists and you will go far my lil Einstein.

H.

""I KNOW WHAT YOUR SAYING HUNAB, UNTIL I DID MY TREE CHANGE I WAS A MISERABLE PRICK. I LIVE IN NATURE EVERY DAY AND I LOVE IT AND WOULD RECOMMEND IT TO ALL.""

It's all good Mind, I can't understand near any of it and I'm bloody 48. I have read a lot of your post's and I agree with Hunab Ku, you are a smart one. It doesn't take long for newbies to work out just who know's a little of what they are talking about and those who know shit. You and a few more I would not like to embarrass are very important contributers to this electronic society. All us who have only just begun our journey get so much from what you contribute so keep up the good work....

Cheers

Hutch