A post about Corrupt Law Enforecement in Australia

[_e_]

This substance exists in an area of grey. I was not aware that it was easy for anyone to access it. This is the result of it being in an area of grey. If this substance is sold commercially it will cease to exist in the grey. The responsibility of the folk (elite few) who draw this substance out of the grey is to ensure that it is utilised within the right context so that it results in positive experience and change for those with whom they share it.

I wouldn’t trust the government to ensure this substance is used in the right context as they have mis-interpreted the context of every other psychedelic substance to date. The government should leave this substance in the grey where it belongs. Instead they have made it illegal in a deluded attempt to convince everyone that they have control of something that exists in the grey.

Not everyone is drawn to this substance and one of the reasons for this is because it is not very convenient (having your whole world dissolve before you). It is also not very convenient to access but those that are drawn to it will seek and find.

my

[folias]

There are some of who are not looking at all this from a personal perspective... but have seen what potential this has for humanity as a whole, and we believe it has a strong part to play in really transforming this materialistic paradigm to accept other paradigms of reality.

That's really something... a friend last night was saying that someone he knew finally realised that Angels and Demons, were actually highly sophisticated beings.

Whereas, most people have these simplistic ideas about what Angels or Demons are or simply cannot conceive or believe they could at all exist as we exist.

According to materialistic paradigm, "all this" revealed by DMT cannot be valid and can only represent a hallucination, an abheration... but its not. I can't think of anyone experienced with the material who thinks this.

This is really important stuff, if we are at all to change our world, we must change our world view and this is really one of the most effective ways to go about it... especially, say, for atheists!

OR, we can all put our heads down, (or into the sand) and continue to just really fuck up and not even know it or recognise it.

So there is a sense of urgency or missionary zeal here, it is because I think those of who know have an obligation to the rest of humanity to share that knowing, and the legal side of it, is a BIG obstacle. I think if we could change that, we could make MUCH better headway.

Julian.

[Chiral]

Very well said..being passionate about one's convictions...especially these ones is something to admire.

It does seem like the eternally impossible mission...but we must try and we must never give up.

H.

[_e_]

i wholeheartedly agree with you j.. cept i like to call them 'daemons', thus removing any christian connotations, they have been around a lot longer then christ after all ;-)

however, this missionary zeal must not lead to blind faith or "totally fucking up without even realising it"

and whilst i see there as being real possibility in the future of entheogens being utilised legally within western spciety, i feel that it is a progressive movement and a jump to the extreme of LEGALIZE DMT NOW, or ACT LIKE DMT IS LEGAL is almost contradictory to the motive/intent.

even though acting as though u are ur own law maker has worked well for me thus far, i dont know if i could hold onto it if i let it stretch too far :-)

[MORG]

That's really something... a friend last night was saying that someone he knew finally realised that Angels and Demons, were actually highly sophisticated beings.

Whereas, most people have these simplistic ideas about what Angels or Demons are or simply cannot conceive or believe they could at all exist as we exist.

I think claiming DMT-visions show us the existence of demons, angels, faeries, succubi, whatever is only going to hinder your cause given the current "materialistic paradigm". (I am assuming you are meaning angels and demons in a literal sense here, and not as some abstract moralistic totems). I'd be surprised if your efforts to be taken seriously were ever rewarded by claiming the injustices of prohibition trespass on your birth right to interact with mythical beings.

Maybe soften them up with baby-steps and progress onto the bigger things...

Universal fabric -> vortices -> mantids -> Santa -> Demons -> Unicorns -> Flying Unicorn Demons with Umbrellas Coming Out of their Arse.

According to materialistic paradigm, "all this" revealed by DMT cannot be valid and can only represent a hallucination, an abheration... but its not. I can't think of anyone experienced with the material who thinks this.

They exist.

This is really important stuff, if we are at all to change our world, we must change our world view and this is really one of the most effective ways to go about it... especially, say, for atheists!

What do you mean? Are you saying that atheists will be a more receptive lot to this paradigm-shift or that atheists being more ardent materialists will benefit the most (in terms of world view shift) from DMT-induced psychedelic experience?

It's seductive to see the world through tryptamine lenses as truth. It is an overwhelming cascade of the feeling we know as "truth" that contributes to the astounding astonishment of the senses on the other side. If our senses can be fooled so readily in the consensus world what makes you think our senses are any more robust in "hyperspace"?

[faustus]

If our senses can be fooled so readily in the consensus world what makes you think our senses are any more robust in "hyperspace"?

word. why are people so eager to believe that the DMT beings are real? in some respects i think that's the narrow-minded assumption.

(FYI i prefer to remain agnostic on the matter, because there's no evidence either way).

[_e_]

word. why are people so eager to believe that the DMT beings are real? in some respects i think that's the narrow-minded assumption.

(FYI i prefer to remain agnostic on the matter, because there's no evidence either way).

because of the existance of shared hallucinations (not just on dmt but many entheogens), and also the arising of experiences and visions that had no conscious or subconscious 'seed' prior to the experience... btu which later emerge to be a common theme.

and

think claiming DMT-visions show us the existence of demons, angels, faeries, succubi, whatever is only going to hinder your cause given the current "materialistic paradigm". (I am assuming you are meaning angels and demons in a literal sense here, and not as some abstract moralistic totems). I'd be surprised if your efforts to be taken seriously were ever rewarded by claiming the injustices of prohibition trespass on your birth right to interact with mythical beings.

isnt that what religion/spirituality is all about?? reaching higher planes of consciousness and often meeting with entities or getting communications from entities whilst in this enlightened state?

just for cause of reference im curious as to how many breakthroughs you guys have had?? or if yuo have ever shared a hallucination?(without prompting of course)

i think this argumentbest ties in with the argument for anti prohibition for all entheogens, and the use of entheogens being a broad based arguement, not substance specific such as legalise pot or legalise dmt e.t.c isnt (i.m.h.o) the best way to go about it.

legalise the use of pot and dmt for their healing/therapeautic/medicinal qualities... but add cacti and aya and mushrooms and such to the list whilst we are at it and there will be a lot more support and a lot less bullshit!

[SunChaser]

word. why are people so eager to believe that the DMT beings are real? in some respects i think that's the narrow-minded assumption.

(FYI i prefer to remain agnostic on the matter, because there's no evidence either way).

Yeah, I totally agree with ya there. Don't matter if your talking about drugs, religion or politics it mostly should be taken with a grain of salt else your in danger of becoming an extremist who thinks this is how the

world is and anyone who believes something different is wrong, which leads to hate.

Then again it's a fine line between being passionate and being extreme.

n

Edited January 13, 2009 by jabez

[Chiral]

Still its pretty interesting how we see similar beings when in hyperspace..that maybe a coincidence..or maybe it's something more.

H.

[mu!]

how is that any different to seeing similar faces in clouds when looking at the sky?

[Conan Troutman]

sumthing such would be fitting IMO

[Chiral]

how is that any different to seeing similar faces in clouds when looking at the sky?

Its completely different....two lads standing on a hill..one looks up and says hey look at that cloud it looks like a dogs head..his buddy replies mmm yeah I guess it does.

1 geezer in USA in the middle of the night smokes some DMT from his pipe and see's entities and elves and little insectiod beings.

2 days later a chick in Sydney smokes some DMT and see's exactly the same shit.

Unless I've lost my marbles..which is a possibility..the its different..but these 2 people at different times and different places see the same beings in Hyperspace..am I missing something..?

Don't answer that... I'm sure I'm missing a few cells but that's okay I'll grow some more.

H.

[faustus]

Unless I've lost my marbles..which is a possibility..the its different..but these 2 people at different times and different places see the same beings in Hyperspace..am I missing something..

then you draw the being you saw, and your friend draws the being that they saw, right down to the minute details and you get an independent observer to rate the similarities. and i'd be willing to bet you that the beings you saw were only superficially similar (though i'm more than willing for you to prove me wrong).

let's entertain the possibilty that brain = mind, and our brains are wired in very similar ways. why is it such a stretch of the imagination that maybe we might share similar thoughts and ideas? follow that one step further: if the functioning of two similar brains is altered in a similar way (i.e. agonism of 5-HT2A/2C receptors, care of DMT) then why is it so impossible that they may experience similar hallucinations?

i'm not saying that i believe what i've just stated, but damn, it's a viable concept, and certainly just as or perhaps even more plausible than the idea that smoking a drug sends your mind to another dimension inhabited by non-physical entities.

EDIT: typos

Edited January 13, 2009 by twix elbert

[Chiral]

Twix..

then you draw the being you saw, and your friend draws the being that they saw, right down to the minute details and you get an independent observer to rate the similarities. and i'd be willing to bet you that the beings you saw were only superficially similar (though i'm more than willing for you to prove me wrong).

I had thought about this..whats to say that what I see is what you see...you look at the cloud and see a dog..I look and see a goat..i mean we never know what the other person see's

I thought that suggestion played a huge role in this..I remember my first experience was absolutely mind blowing..but... I had read and read and read all about it...the amount of times I read the words entities and elves and aliens..suggestion was predominate before the experience was even had...someone who has never read any of this and went straight into it..I have a subject..won't name names..but this person went straight to hyperspace..and this was the first time they had ever done anything as far as mind altering substances goes..they told me when they woke from hyperspace that they saw mandalas and something that looked like Pikachoo...to me that was excellent evidence that suggestion may have nothing to do with it..but I had thought it did.

H.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Hunab Ku

[folias]

What do you mean? Are you saying that atheists will be a more receptive lot to this paradigm-shift or that atheists being more ardent materialists will benefit the most (in terms of world view shift) from DMT-induced psychedelic experience?

Atheists will often benefit a great deal from the shift in their world view... most people cannot easily what they experience and write it off.

Some people can... there was a guy on bluelight who said he was crying, because his mind was trying to maintain one view, and his being told him another (my interpretation)

At least... that's a very strong reaction.

It took me a long time to really ACCEPT the reality of these beings... many visitations... now, its just a matter of fact... there is something in the human brain which I think has been cut off from this for so long, it is hard to totally get it... but like I said, the sheer sophistication and awesomeness of these beings... is something to behold.

After a while, you just accept they are who they say they are... at least, that's my experience... there's a part of me that wants to hit people over the head with a four be 2, and give up this skepticism, but that won't do any good. ;-)

I was talking to one of the top ayahuasca researchers in the world a few years ago, (maybe the most prominent) and I won't say who it is for the sake of discretion, but he said to me he wanted to go public on the existence of these beings and talk about it more...

For anyone who works with ayahuasca... "the spirits" are real... only Benny Shannon doesn't seem to think so! That's the only person I know of who thinks they are not "real"... maybe Torsten, but I'm not sure about what he thinks these days about this!

Julian.

[MORG]

there is something in the human brain which I think has been cut off from this for so long, it is hard to totally get it... but like I said, the sheer sophistication and awesomeness of these beings... is something to behold.

How can you concede the human brain the capacity to govern connectedness to these entities but not the power to create them?

there's a part of me that wants to hit people over the head with a four be 2, and give up this skepticism, but that won't do any good. ;-)

Well if we ever get the chance to discuss it in person I'll bring something for self-defence.

[folias]

hey, sorry to the skeptics that I suggested I may apply violence to them, I wouldn't... only help them to break through properly with smoking technique and so on!

;-)

okay, I've been sniffing around recently, talking to more people about the ACC (not the NSW Crime Commission), people seem quite clear it is the ACC in this case.

What I didn't believe, and what people were saying two years ago, was that the ACC were after properties in the Far North Coast of NSW... just to seize that property. Because if it can be proved that your property was funded through illicit money... then your property can be seized.

Other people, a couple of years ago were talking about a deeper agenda, about getting the hippies and sannyassins out of the area...

But what has come to light through people brave enough to talk to others, is that it seems to me the ACC itself is corrupt enough, that powerful people within the organisation may actually be co-opting people's assets.

btw, I have no proof of this, and I cannot say for sure - only, that this is what it looks like.

Some people I believe are already aware of this, and this has made them even more scared and silent.

Even I, personally, find it hard to believe, but it makes sense.

"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Everyone knows this.

I would suggest these people are absolutely corrupt.

The police force, I think, see them and resent their powers and see their machinations, but are apparently unable to do anything.

The ACC are very evidently a waste of tax payers money... they spent $95 million investing Paul Hogan's tax dealings...and he won.

http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20081216...witch-hunt.html

It's really shameful stuff I think.

They are designed to target organised crime and instead target a small community of people who are really tiny fish in the scheme of things... spending an enormous amount of money, basically terrorising people and what comes out of it at the end of the day - after years?

But, the more I learn about the ACC, the more I feel sorry for them--->have compassion for them.

They do seem terribly incompetent, and so totally blinded by money and power that they only way they can proceed is via methodologies that represent continuing Human Rights Violations. (Australia is the only western democracy without a human rights charters. http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/rights/407)

However, there is a strong movement against these people and I would suggest the ACC won't last much longer in its present form, and so I'm not so worked up about them. And a lot of people are!

However, they have caused an incredible amount of psychological torment and trauma (through their draconian interrogation techniques) to many people are completely innocent. This in itself, I feel, has ensured that the ACC's downfall, as the community witnesses these people's anguish, that of their children, their partners and their friends... but I think it is those in power at the ACC who are in the real need of psychiatric help, not punishment.

This deliberate infliction of suffering upon people, I am quite sure would be deemed to be clinically "psychopathic".

Julian.

[folias]

btw, I've had beings appear before me so that I could touch them and leave apparently physical objects with me, that would disappear into dust after 30 seconds or so... and I used to read erowid 10 years ago and think a lot of the trip reports were pretty wild and unbelievable!

Julian.

[MORG]

btw, I've had beings appear before me so that I could touch them and leave apparently physical objects with me, that would disappear into dust after 30 seconds or so...

I hope you kept the dust! ;)

You should bioassay it.

[Qhorakuna tantani]

Fighting for a cause is a noble thing, but knowing when you stand a chance and in which way one must fight for it is also a good skill to have.

All I've seen over the years is those that are already on the path being furthered along that path by the ease of availability, and those that are not, simply having yet another consumable product in their simplistic lives. Very few, that I have seen anyways, have crossed over from one to the other without personal input or external guidance. There is definately some merit to the thought that half of the spiritual furtherment is from the journey to the experience, not just the experience.

Jeez, what a great fucking deal of benefit mankind had from $2 a hit 'enlightenment' in the 60s/70s. It might be worth considering that the product alone probably won't 'cure' people, that some effort on their part is required in the first place.

I'm not making any personal attacks at all, I don't know enough in the first place, but I'm just saying it how I've seen it over the years.

[Chiral]

oooo touch me..

H.

[folias]

Very few, that I have seen anyways, have crossed over from one to the other without personal input or external guidance.

But also, the point is that the experience can allow there to be a window for questioning and the openess and acceptance of personal input or external guidance...

I am not talking of anything here that is in itself going to "do it", but it is a facilitator... an agent... not entirely empty, because we are talking of the intelligence of plants.

We are not talking of a ultimate panacea at all... but at the least, something very powerful which can further human awareness and intelligence and therefore collective evolution.

I don't think society should forsake these plants... at all.

There are those of us who have been pushing this agenda, choosing to risk everything for the sake of this quite deliberately, knowing that we are in the right - in actual fact unable to conceive of any other way.

I just walked past a church and on the board was a sign that said, "Choose to do something so great, that failure is likely unless god is in it".

That is the way I feel about all this... on many different levels.

Julian.

[Qhorakuna tantani]

I don't think society should forsake these plants... at all.

Nor do I! May I ask you though which of the following seems more like a forsaking: Being subtle about ones approach and taking ones time to change things knowing that it may be slow but will allow more people to experience it in a constructive way before it is taken away from us OR Spreading it far and wide to anyone who will hear (not necessarily listen) without due regard for the long term consequences that such exposure will have and essentially ensuring that it IS taken away from us as soon as possible, being just a fleeting memory of good times to many.

Have you ever met someone, maybe at school, that just no matter how much a teacher tried, they just wouldn't 'get it?' Ever had the thought that the majority of people you have met are like this in one way or another? I agree that this is a very powerful and wonderful teacher that needs to be respected, but I think that there are a lot of people that just aren't ready. If there were a way to ensure that everyone had someone around them to guide them, to make sure the experience wasn't just fleeting and superficial, but changing. Alas, short of some sort of pocket sized shaman guide for each customer, one can't be sure that this is the case. And the problem is now that a few people have taken away everybody elses right to undertake their shamanic path in some sort of covert manner.

Doesn't really matter anymore, Que será.

I just walked past a church and on the board was a sign that said, "Choose to do something so great, that failure is likely unless god is in it".

That is the way I feel about all this... on many different levels.

Are you saying that because you have god on your side you will win, or merely comparing the way you believe to that of a christian?

I'm sorry, couldn't resist. But seriously, a minority needs to be a mighty big slice of the whole to not just win, but stay won.

[reptyle]

evolution is definite.

i agree with embracing the needs of God and thereby assisting this evolution without hindrance. I also agree that karmic attachments to things or idea`s creates or poisons the path of freedom and destines one to live the same struggle until liberation from addicitve thinking is achieved.

I also know that the body of light which exists as an organ of the imagination has the power to modify the entire world, individuals see each other in relation to their needs for confirmation of a world view. We exists on a bandwidth of foreseeable actions, somethings we will eternally repeat in the imaginations of other, some we will never be seen to participate in.

It is the blending together of the light body with the pure desires for movement which allows one to creatively construct their own future. Once this idea is embraced the results can be tested and verified, the past the present and the future alter undeniably, however dont try to explain the actual changes to anyone because they were part of the change and were modified accordingly. sages silence.

grasping hold of the emotional imagination and using this as a filter for processing information increases the "perception" of beneficial or loving experinces and from this fertile experience healthy plants can grow into the future.

There is a fine balance between relaxing control, choosing love, and accepting your part in the potential futures able to be reached from your present time/space coordinates. Holding a state of mindfulness allows one to learn to activate and strengthen the muscles involved in movements of various types.

Patterns created in the awake life structure the personality witnessed by others in their own created worlds. Purification of all aspects and dissolution of negative emotions allows entry to all realms, in all forms, without hindrance or judgement being required.

A shaman can use the power of their mind to manifest realities for other people to witness so as to facilitate understanding this process. Creating in their imagination a world where spontaneous revelation and healing are known to be real. Holding a safe space in place and mind, and not just being a victim of the power of the plants is the responsibility of the healer, devotion and dedication must be ingrained as a pattern before access to the ability to be represented on all levels as such is available.

Changing a system in frustration or anger causes frustration and anger, steering the vessel that is the mind with love towards a complete state of understanding and integration of all aspects is the key to earning the powers of insight.

Taking responsibility, owning up for the sins of the world and being willing to suffer the consequences of your creation will set you free.

Plants love people who love people who might oneday love plants who love people. But in reality they are patterns of a purified mind, representations of programs running to fullfil many tasks, their knowledge and emotional perfection can be attained and capied so that when all else seem lost one little sprig of green willl grow from beneath the ashes of yesterday. They are not and cannot be lost. The worlds jungles are another satory.

I think there is a lot of learning to remember how we as beings create and are created, once this healing has occured the plant medicine will be able to be used properly, so unless you can transform into a fly on the wall...maybe dont attempt to steer the entire world.

WWJHD (what would jimi hendrix do)?

blessing waaawaaawooowooeeeiiiiiwwwwooooo

[folias]

One of your most lucid posts Reptyle~!

Have you ever met someone, maybe at school, that just no matter how much a teacher tried, they just wouldn't 'get it?' Ever had the thought that the majority of people you have met are like this in one way or another? I agree that this is a very powerful and wonderful teacher that needs to be respected, but I think that there are a lot of people that just aren't ready.

For sure, but that doesn't mean that a lot of people are ready! And I think more and more people who are.

We can't wait for the one's who don't get it and hold back on their behalf.

Nor do I! May I ask you though which of the following seems more like a forsaking: Being subtle about ones approach and taking ones time to change things knowing that it may be slow but will allow more people to experience it in a constructive way before it is taken away from us OR Spreading it far and wide to anyone who will hear (not necessarily listen) without due regard for the long term consequences that such exposure will have and essentially ensuring that it IS taken away from us as soon as possible, being just a fleeting memory of good times to many.

Nothing can be taken away from you if you are determined.

You are so sure that it will be taken away... why are you standing for that? Accepting that?

Are you saying that because you have god on your side you will win, or merely comparing the way you believe to that of a christian?

Don't make me impersonate "Chris Rock" as God talking to me about God Molecules!

I'm sorry, couldn't resist. But seriously, a minority needs to be a mighty big slice of the whole to not just win, but stay won.

I disagree.

It has always been a small group of people who have changed the world, or one person who believed something, and maintained that belief despite almost everyone else or the powers that be.

And the problem is now that a few people have taken away everybody elses right to undertake their shamanic path in some sort of covert manner.

Well, you don't have any right to undertake a shamanic path in covertness... anyway.

Julian.