We're after you: police tell partygoers

[JDanger]

Police have warned they are cracking down on drug-taking partygoers after arresting 29 people and seizing almost 300 ecstasy pills and other drugs at a dance party in Sydney's west.

About 3000 revellers attended the Transmission Dance Party, which started at 9pm (AEST) yesterday at Sydney Olympic Park.

Police targeted dealers by using drug dogs outside the venue to nab any revellers trying to take illicit substances inside.

One of the people charged with supplying drugs was an 18-year-old man who allegedly had 55 ecstasy pills in his possession.

Another man, also 18, was charged for possession and supply of 42 ecstasy pills.

The 29 arrests resulted in more than 40 drug supply and possession charges.

Flemington Commander, Superintendent Alf Sergi, today told reporters the operation had been "very successful" and warned partygoers that police would be as much a fixture at upcoming parties "as the loud music and crowded dance floor".

"We're going to be very, very proactive in targeting these partygoers and the illegal activities associated with these parties," he said.

"We have to be crystal clear to these people out there.

"We're not going to tolerate drug use and drug activities because it's very harmful to members of the community.

"They have to understand that," he said.

"That's our primary goal."

Supt Sergi said he wanted to reinforce the point that party drugs were not only illegal but they could kill.

"We will not let go in our relation to a stand on these issues because they are very, very dangerous for the community," he said.

"With young people the message is hard to get through but we will persevere and be relentless at it."

Link

Dang.

[Undergrounder]

The last time i went to a big party like that where there were cops outside the front with sniffer dogs i necked all my pills in one go before i went in so i wouldn't get caught with any on me. I know heaps of people did the same, and took way more than they should have as a result. A hell of a lot more dangerous than trying to be sensible about it, the cops cause way more paranoia and stupid behaviour with mass searches like that.

[nabraxas]

Governments have a duty to protect people from their own stupidity and protect the rest of society from the stupidity & insanity of others who choose to use drugs like meth and I only wish they were doing a better job!

Baphomet's wishes continue to come true.

Edited September 28, 2008 by nabraxas

[MindExpansion]

"We're not going to tolerate drug use and drug activities because it's very harmful to members of the community.

"They have to understand that," he said.

"That's our primary goal."

Supt Sergi said he wanted to reinforce the point that party drugs were not only illegal but they could kill.

"We will not let go in our relation to a stand on these issues because they are very, very dangerous for the community," he said.

Well that leaves us with two options, UG's way, take your whole nights stash in one mouthful and hope you make it through til morning. OR, take a bottle of rum, and neck that instead, then smash the bottle on someones head when they bump into you or 'look at you funny'. But be careful, that MDMA is really a risk to society.

Peace

[Moses]

years ago i was told if blood hounds sniffed kerosene the scent messed up their nose for 24 hrs making them useless so an escaping crim could lead the dogs through bushes that had kero spayed on them so they were thrown off.

perhaps the organisers of these shows could employ similar tactics outside their site.

[MindExpansion]

Kero? I remember Myth Busters looking into heaps of myths, not sure but they worked out that there was one way to do it, apparently the military get taught it or some such. Think it might have been pepper spray...but not sure.

Would be cool to find out what it was though, and organisers could prepare the venue in advance.

Peace

[Sassy]

Citronella. Woolies firelighter section.

[Undergrounder]

You'd want to use it wisely though, if the dog sniffs you runs away yelping that's probably cause enough for a search... maybe spray citronella on your mates going through clean so it stuffs up the dogs and then have someone walk through later. Just say you use citronella against the mosquitos or something.

P.S. I didn't think dogs could really smell e can they?

[teonanacatl]

hahaha piss from a female dog on heat squirt it around on the ground and the dogs wont be interested in anything else

[Moses]

bitch urine will distract a dog, but if correctly trained the handler will get it's mind back on it's job , only effective to give you more time to distance yourself.

the problem with "drug dogs" is the dog is not "following" a scent but merely locating one that is basically in front of it.

you will not mask the scent, with so many people moving about the "mask" will eventually be diluted.

you need to disable the dogs ability to smell.

from what i remember kerosene was used as the scent clings( i believe the term "fatty" was used ) to the receptors in the nose making it impossible to smell anything else(try washing the smell off your hands,it clings).

and as much as i love Mythbusters they have to stay within legal guide lines and showing you how to effectively evade police would be a shady area.

p.s. i'm not saying kero will/does work (havent tried it yet ) just recalling something said in the past that may have been relevant to topic

[Yeti101]

I didn't think dogs could really smell e can they?

I'm pretty sure they can, but I'm no expert. The can smell meth, so I'd be surprised if they couldn't smell e.

Dogs hate the smell of citronella, (some council rangers carry it like mace) but the reaction might be too strong - the dog might not indicate you, but if it is rolling around trying to pull it's own nose off after it sniffs you, well that's not going to look good.

[MindExpansion]

All party organisers should light up the events with citronella torches lol.

Peace

[caljet666]

Hey guys. I've been lurking here a while. I'm glad to start posting.

Earlier this year the police were warning that they, and their dogs, would be attending the big day out. Thankfully they didn't, but to respond, the organizers of the BDO sent an email to all the members of their website to address the matter.

In the e-mail it was stated that 75% of people sniffed out by the dogs aren't actually carrying anything. I will admit that I never tried to confirm this claim, but I never disbelieved it either as friends of mine have had a dog sit next to them and they weren't carrying anything (or so they claimed) at the time.

If that's the case, how good a search would they perform if a dog sat next to you. If they were hidden well enough on your person I would assume that you'd get through anyway... Provided you could keep your cool I guess.

Any thoughts?

[MindExpansion]

I remember seeing dogs at bdo two or three years ago... but only like 2 of them.

Don't think they'd have had much luck given all the drugs coming in.

Peace

[nabraxas]

If they were hidden well enough on your person I would assume that you'd get through anyway... Provided you could keep your cool I guess.

i think they probably do get a fair amount ov false positives. I also think they try & pressure you into confessing:

"Come on mate, this dog's very well trained, be honest with me now & it wont be so bad for you. What are you carrying?"

If you stick to denying any drug use at all & your drugs are well stashed--- not just loose in your pocket, you should be ok.

E's often have a very strong aniseed like smell, i'm sure a dog could detect that no problem at all.

Edited September 29, 2008 by nabraxas

[apothecary]

caljet, welcome to the forums. You probably confused the Sydney BDO police media release with the one for your area. There were indeed dogs out in force at the last Sydney BDO hounding the entrance. I also saw them at Soundwave festival, Good Vibrations, Sydney Earthdance '08, pretty much all events in Sydney the last four years with more than a thousand people and the possibility of just one MDMA or pot bust.

Same bunch of dogs that attend these parties. Seriously, the mainstream raves that go on at Homebush have ALWAYS had dogs attending them (at least since 2000), anyone dumb enough to get caught with drugs attending one of these events is pretty ignorant indeed. Everyone goes to the event with the full knowledge the dogs will be there or SHOULD have this knowledge, and these dogs have the most experience in Aus at sniffing out illicit substances and are probably the cream of the crop in terms of genetics anyway as from my understanding they are leftover bomb sniffing dogs from the Olympics.

As for the 75% number quoted by the BDO organisers, this is indeed the case, at least as determined by the NSW Ombudsman. I emailed the then acting NSW Police Minister David Campbell asking exactly what justification allowed the use of sniffer dogs when a

The worst problem in my opinion is that these people who are stupid enough to take drugs where there will obviously be a dog presence (I don't include people who would have otherwise been caught unaware at the train station on a Tuesday afternoon or similar) are the ones who are skewing the statistics to be so high as they are. Without the Homebush raves and big Sydney festivals (or at least smarter drug ingestion methods by partygoers) would make the dogs so useless as to be labeled harassment by the police force.

Please keep in mind I really didn't post this to fuel a discussion on whether or not it is our fundamental human right to take drugs to a big festival or being too scared to take drugs outside the house meaning "they win" or anything like that.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/sniffe...7827094304.html

[Sassy]

The citronella from woolies is cheap. It comes in 1l bottle . Pour out the bottle on the route between train station and party or upwind and upstreet from venue . Many people will then carry this smell to the area thus making it impossible to smell anything else in area. People Power beating Pig Power. No individual would be singled out. Carry it on your person if that's the only thing you're carrying, it's not illegal , and the innocent have nothing to fear ,it's worth taunting some self righteous wanker who's only joy is to stop someone else having fun.

[folias]

A dance party without good drugs is a like a pub with no beer!

Can someone tell me of another country where they regularly use dogs to catch people taking "drugs"?

Because I can't think of any other or have heard of any other... what is going on in Australia is pure fascism - especially when the majority of people who go out to clubs or whatever use Ecstasy and other drugs! There is no proof or evidence that these parties are "dangerous for the community"

In some other countries, the government realises that people go to parties and take good drugs and have a good time and don't terrorise their citizens for doing so!

These are sane countries - like Switzerland for example! (generally known to a be a sane place... where for example, there is soon to be a referundum that may well decriminalise cannabis)

I was told by a Swiss a man about a party near Bern where the police came into a party around midday on the top of a mountain, with dozens of police, politely asked them to turn off the music and they asked everyone for their drivers license and car keys!

Everyone was taken down the mountain, bussed to the nearest railway station, but beforehand, several people underwent drug tests just for fun... and some people showed up cocaine, marijuana and MDMA - still the police did not do anything about this, it was only for entertainment value for all involved!

Then the police drove everyone's car to the local police station, where people were told they could pick up their cars on Monday morning.

Actually, everyone was really happy about the way this went, because it was not heavy handed, it was friendly and respectful of the culture and humane in a realistic understanding that people ARE actually taking drugs at a party and the main interest of the police was to ensure that nobody drove while under the influence.

In 2-3 hours the officers did their job and went home and so did everyone else! No clogging up of the court system with posession charges, or minor trafficking charges which can wreck peoples lives, who are usually just be selling pills to mates or whatever... (a few dozen pills is NOTHING!)

In Switzerland also, at any party, there will be police present outside the party, to make sure everything is okay.

But inside the party, there are no police and people openly take drugs and everyone generally has a safe and good time!

I feel it is really a very shameful policy we have in Australia.

I would suggest the police would be doing everyone (including themselves) a favour, and let people go out and have a good time and take drugs like ecstasy, which are by and large, safe - and present most people who take them no problems whatsoever!

I would suggest the Australian police force go and do some training maneuvours with some of the un-corrupt european police forces... and find a way to appropriately use police resources and public funding in order to look after public safety and well-being in what they choose to do with themselves in awareness they are breaking the law!

When it comes to this kind of thing, I really feel people have got to make a stand about this or it will get worse.

Supt Sergi said he wanted to reinforce the point that party drugs were not only illegal but they could kill.

I think pretty much everyone who takes "party drugs" knows this! That also it is very rare that anyone actually dies from MDMA and more that it is people taking too much PMA that is the problem!

"We will not let go in our relation to a stand on these issues because they are very, very dangerous for the community," he said.

I actually feel kind of sorry for this police officer, because its clear he is trying to justify draconian actions by saying how dangerous people taking drugs at these parties are... and yeah, you can stop people taking drugs at the parties to a degree... but people will still take them, at home or whatever, if they want to.

And now, its the oldies who are taking MDMA! Suburban mums!

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0...1-23272,00.html

"With young people the message is hard to get through but we will persevere and be relentless at it."

Unfortunately, the police, as much as some of them would like to be kind and "hard" paternal figures, have never in the history of humanity ever "gotten through" to young people so that they "toed the line"! and "did what they are told!" - all that stuff.

I personally feel young people should go out and be young people and taking MDMA and other drugs is likely a helluva better for them than getting pissed, saying and doing a lot of regretful and silly things and then getting runover by a car in the street!

Remember what the beastie boys said...

Unfortunately, I feel that if Australian people do not stop being spineless convict remnants and take a stand against this kind of draconian authority, it only provides a foundation for further erosion of personal and collective freedoms.

Julian.

Edited October 3, 2008 by folias

[apothecary]

You are 100% correct J in saying there are very few countries which are legally allowed to use sniffer dogs on the general populace. In the US, until a very recent Supreme Court ruling, the use of a sniffer dog was considered a search, thus performing this search without consent or a warrant was unlawful. Unfortunately this is no longer the case I believe.

Please tell us though, how you propose we "take a stand against this kind of draconian authority"? I would love to help put drug sniffing dogs out of comission once and for all, or at least have them legally recognised as a search requiring consent or warrant!

EDIT: Looks like the Greens tried 2002, didn't see this before.

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/PARL...y/LC20020612003

Edited October 3, 2008 by Sina

[folias]

Physically, its hard to do anything of course.

But the pen is mightier than the sword (or citronella!)

I think raising the issue in public forums and telling the public itself about how police are basically harrassing party goers with these tactics is plain wrong... there are letters that can be written, to MP's, to newspapers. web sites can be created. People can report how they were treated by police, individual case studies... so people can know what is going on here.

The issue can be brought to the public light and people can stand together in many ways, against these kind of actions, as people stand together about anything they don't approve of! But first you have got to stand up and admit to breaking the law by taking drugs!

Cops take drugs, lawyers take drugs, even judges take drugs! (I have known cases of all three!)

To start zooming in on the most suspectable and harassing them, those who take drugs at outdoor parties, just seems really silly. And they are largely just taking MDMA... this is not ground zero of the ice or heroin epidemic! or represents a clear case of drug abuse, it is literally part of that culture and always has been!

I'm not saying I think taking MDMA every weekend is actually really good for you... but I am 180% positive, that if everyone in Australian took mdma at an outdoor party, society would be a helluva lot of a better place to live!

I mean, this is well reported in English society, how football hooligans in the late 80's decided to engage in brotherly love by taking MDMA and listening to music with a repetitive beat, rather than beating the crap out of each other up after football games!

In many ways, this dance culture, is a very healthy culture, and if the police don't respect that or understand that, it really means that everyone needs to be educated I think, because ignorance is clearly having its way here.

Julian.

[bob-bob]

To remove some myths about sniffer dogs here is some info about the subject.

To start, dogs have the ability to smell

chemicals that are diluted as low as parts per trillion.

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060106002944.htm

The dogs are trained to find a specific toy. The toy is usually a wrapped up towel that has been locked up in an air tight box with whatever the trainer wants it to find. For drug sniffer dogs it usually starts off with marijuana because it has the strongest smell of illicit drugs , then it will be trained to smell cocaine and methamphetamine's in the same way which have a considerably lower scent. Other dogs are trained to find explosives and other things the same way.

The toy is then taken away and the dog is introduced to humans that will have "the toy" or something containing the smell of "the toy" hidden on their bodies.

The dogs are trained to start smelling from one foot, up the leg and over the crotch, down the opposite leg finishing on the foot.

If the dog sits it has returned a positive result meaning that the person can legally be searched. If the police believe it to be needed this can go all the way to a strip search.

WAYS TO BETTER YOUR CHANCES.

1. Never carry marijuana as it is the strongest smelling drug of all.

2. Never carry drugs below your waist (unless they have been properly placed on the appropriate shelf)

3. Never carry more drugs that can be properly concealed.

4. Never touch the dog. The dog is a police officer and you will be charged with assault if you touch him. (two way street though. If the dog touches you it is also assault

Edited October 3, 2008 by bob-bob

[Teotzlcoatl]

Get one crazy kid to rub meat all over himself and the rest of y'all load your pockets up with pills and run for the door!

I'll be the kid, just get me some steaks!

~ Teotzlcoatl ~

Is there a cat-nip for dogs? Some chemical or smell that makes them go crazy?

I cant see how a dog could smell some cannabis if it was in a big bag or coffee or Capsicum peppers! (I'd be glad to send somebody some seeds if y'all wanna try it!)

Edited October 3, 2008 by Teotz'

[nabraxas]

If the police believe it to be needed this can go all the way to a strip search.

The police can search you, your possessions and your car without consent or a warrant if you are in a public place and they believe you are carrying illegal drugs, stolen goods, weapons or firearms....

Police may conduct a ”pat-down search” of the outside of your clothes and ask you to empty your pockets....

If you are in custody or under arrest you can be searched for things that could be used as evidence for the offence you have been arrested for. Police may conduct either a ”pat-down search” or a ”strip search” in a private place.

http://www.activistrights.org.au/cb_pages/...ers_details.php

if the cops have to take you into custody or arrest you before they can perform a strip search, i think it's unlikely that they would go that far on the reaction from a sniffer dog alone.

[bob-bob]

If the police believe it to be needed this can go all the way to a strip search.

if the cops have to take you into custody or arrest you before they can perform a strip search, i think it's unlikely that they would go that far on the reaction from a sniffer dog alone.

The police may believe a strip search is needed for a few reasons. Such as if you are found with drugs and they have the suspicion you may have more concealed. You do not cooperate with police initially.

These are all reasons to be arrested or taken into custody but all this is resulting from a positive dog reaction but not the reaction alone.

[apothecary]

if the cops have to take you into custody or arrest you before they can perform a strip search, i think it's unlikely that they would go that far on the reaction from a sniffer dog alone.

Unforuntately, all the times I have seen targetted sniffer dog use, they have a tent set up where they take people back, after the dog registers a "positive", I assume this is to facilitate strip searches where required.

As soon as you have been touched by the police dog or the police themselves this is not assault bob-bob, it is legally considered detainment. At this point they must inform you of your rights and arrest or it is considered unlawful detainment. This is how the infamous Rusty from Nimbin got off.

As per what nab said above though, pretty much as soon as the dog registers you you can be detained in custody and strip searched.