What was the food of the gods?

[ThunderIdeal]

tangent:

i saw a doco where a small band of warriors was excavated, and as i recall, shown to have injuries from spanish firearms AND stone weaponry. the doco showed that the spanish recorded version of events exaggerated the greatness of their feats, because in fact, cortez was aided by an army of natives who were eager as hell to bring the (young) empire down.

[2b]

I saw the same doco, first firearm killing on the American continent. They did agree that most of the deaths appeared to be from other Aztecs ,they even ID' they weapons used.

[Torsten]

This article assumes the ingredients were roasted - as they are today. There is a lot of evidence that suggest they were not and I concentrated my tastings on the unroasted product. One recipe I found was adamant that the corn had to be young and fresh. This led me to believe it was the milky juice from the corn that was actually desired.

The roasted stuff would be MUCH nicer. I'm going to have to get some of that powder.

[Ace]

Torsten, I'm curious as to why you are thinking the 'Food of the Gods' (presumably Mexican gods?) is cocao? Firstly, why narrow it down to one plant/compound when there are several candidates that would allow communication with, observation of and possible nourishment for the 'gods'? Secondly, wouldnt it more likely to be a plant/compound that produces strong hallucinations (visual or audiory)? I ask mostly because it is more likely (IMO) that people would be aware of something more 'devine' or 'godly' when they have experienced something utterly mind blowing and unbelievable (compared to your average consciousness) via a psychedelic plant/compound. Thirdly, what 'gods' are you referring to in particular? I would assume that it'd be something of central/south american origin, due to the cocao references.

I would be leaning towards a powerful entheogen such as peyote, teonanacatl, brugmansia or similar, as I feel these are more likely to be considered 'foods' or 'sacraments' of the gods in my opinion. Would you dis/agree? It is common knowledge that cocao was a highly respected plant centuries ago (and still is today) and it could have been (was) used in preparations with other more 'enlightening' plants/compounds such as psilocybe mexicana. Perhaps you are taking a more culinary route, hence cocao over things like peyote?

Just a little unsure what your method of thinking is behind this thread.

[ThunderIdeal]

maybe the variety of corn is important.

you're probably using a commercial variety, and who knows what variety they were using?

[Torsten]

Torsten, I'm curious as to why you are thinking the 'Food of the Gods' (presumably Mexican gods?) is cocao?

Because that is how the Mayans described it [and hence the greek name of Theobromus which directly translates to food of the gods]. Other things like mushrooms were also referenced to gods, but variously as flesh of the gods or as certain spirit activities/powers.

My post isn't so much about about 'what is the food of the gods', but rather 'why was cacao designated food of the gods'. Even just 'why was chocolate so special' will do. The point I was trying to make is that even though chocolate holds a very special place in our culture, it does so only because of the milk & sugar combination which was absent in south america at the time they revered this plant. So what made it special to the aztecs and mayans?

We KNOW that chocolate as very special, but we don't know exactly why. Most of anthropological research points to the nutritious nature and possibly the tasty preparations of the plant parts, but I think there might be more to it. Food can take on very important roles in society and we know that corn certainly did so for the mayans, but if you look at the rituals of both corn and chocolate then you would have to assume chocolate is a much more important food to them which doesn't make sense when your whole empire and survival is built on corn. So chocolate had to either be a more important food or it had to have an elevated status because if was a ritual drug.

Women and kids were not allowed to consume chocolate because it was presumed to be toxic for them. In every society where a food is celebrated it is done so with the inclusion of women because good foods are important for women to bear lots of children. So again, chocolate is not celebrated like a food, but like a sacrament or at least social drug with taboos attached to it.

I never realised just what sort of drug potential chocolate had until i tried chocamine and since then fresh chocolate seeds.

[Ace]

Thanks for that explanation T - quite a fascinating topic! I had no idea about the naming of theobromus translating to food of the gods. I am very interested to see how this thread turns out now I think the thread topic sort of threw me off a little - I thought you were trying to find a sole 'food of the gods', not so much a discussion about the possible use of cocao being used as an intoxicant. I might have to do a bit of research on chocamine...

[2b]

I can remember reading an article about chocolate and the cravings it produces. If you are worried about your weight they advised to eat the best quality dark chocolate you could buy. If you try to save money and buy the cheap chocolate you have to eat the whole block just to satisfy the craving because the body is craving the cocao, not the milk and sugar. Thus if you buy the expensive 70/90% cocao dark chocolate your craving will be satisfied quicker and you won't need to take on all the extra kilojoules you would of if you had to eat the whole block of the cheap stuff.

So if you can develop a craving for cocao (not the milk and sugar) it seems entirely resonable that you could think cocoa had mystical properties , thus opening up the next step that is to think it sent by a god.

[BlackDragon]

2b, I agree with the articale you mentioned totally.

I used to be a sucker for slabs of milk chocolate(good quality tho), then i found out i have sugar issues to deal with.

Now all i need to have is a small peice of 70%+ and such a small piece satisfies my cravings totally in one bite. I cant believe it.

I used to horf down big slabs of milk chocolate to get that "all goey feeling" . Now its a more refined content and focused yet dreamy feeling, not the one of extreme fullness and sickly sweet tummy rumblings. Im glad high % choc is becoming more available in oz.

Milk chocolate is sooo over rated!

Bd

[planthelper]

my vision of this fotg is that, it had nothing to do with halucigenic plants or mushrooms.

i visualize those upperclass people using that stuff on a regular basis, shrooms create tolerance very fast, and i can't see a stuff which works only after abstinace to be fit for the gods.

the fotg is certainly the holy grail of ethnobotany, and i would not be the least surprised if it has to do with mechanisms which knowledge has been lost.

choclate making was done by the pharmacist in the early days, and maybe some clues would be found in those manuscripts, if they are around.

lets see this simple, something worked realy well and was held in the highest regard, but now has lost it's magic. thats probably the case because some ingreediances are missing and the way it has been prepared.

i never tried chocamine, but at times a good cup of cocoa, gave me a slight impression how cosy, warm, blissfull, coccoa actives can make you feel.

would maoi's potentiate the effects? i guess yes.

would different preparation methodes make a big difference? yes!!

why wasn't it available to the rest of the people? maybe not only because of prestige, but because one needed a lot of beans to make a little bit of food of the gods.

[Garbage]

I must apologize for rambling like Ben Gunn on my little island here.

Our flayed lord s another intriguing manifestation of something,they say an adricultural god but how one makes the leap from flaying or possibly threshing or dehusking various crops to flaying and wearing human skin remains something of a mystery.

The Chocolate mentioned could possibly be linked?

It's the beans that are used after removing the fruit skin,the Aztecs believed the spirit of the god existed within that which they were to consume and in turn be consumed by?

It's easy to believe if it's palpably a truth.

The god's cosciousness thus passed from one state of being within the drug plant and into another,the user.

But given the wealth of drug plants and the Aztec festival year i suggest a harvest festival.

It may well have been Cocoa and the wearing of human skin was little more than a fancy dress costume during the festivals for the rulers of a barbaric society.

The pastoralists on the other hand may have used the cacoa,mushroom and chile and covered themselves in a blanket.

The power of the God Tlaloc would perhaps have ruled their lives,if you know little about the means of food production your power to command food be brought by others and their compliance may have seemed miraculous.

I command and they obey,why would they unless god told them?

Sadly we do not know who was worn or what status they were considered to be within the Aztec ruling mindset.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Garbage

[Qhorakuna tantani]

used to be a sucker for slabs of milk chocolate(good quality tho)

Apparently milk destroys the chemicals in chocolate which affect anandamides, so dark chocolate should give a better effect. If you like dark chocolate, you should try "Green and blacks" organic dark chocolate. Has to be one of the best chocolates I've tried, and you can find it in a lot of petrol stations. Be prepared to pay a little more for it though :s

T, you mentioned that the corn needs to be young. What about finding an heirloom variety, could have some significance?

[Torsten]

T, you mentioned that the corn needs to be young. What about finding an heirloom variety, could have some significance?

yes, covered that too. I collect heirloom food seeds, so this was easy. Personally I feel that there needs to be a major change in flavour, such as roasting, germinating or fermenting. I used to love eating fresh RAW corn off the cob when I was a kid so I thought that maybe the juicy raw stuff would be what I was looking for, but no.

[Garbage]

Like this?

Ho,ho,ho.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Garbage

[blizznshot]

There is also a warmed version of Tejate whose name I admittedly don't know (I'm not even sure it has one; it was given to me simply as Oaxacan Coffee by the same person that gave me Tejate by name). What I can say, however, is that it is VERY rich in unrefined chocolate. It also contains Oaxacan coffee beans, some type of hot pepper that gives it an undeniable heat, and some combination of herbs that tastes similar to cinnamon. This stuff will wake you up in the morning, that's or sure.

It was actually my sipping this along side mezcal that led me to my current experimentation with oaxacan chocolate and peppers. Simply stated, I enjoy my afternoons on the hammock with a glass of smokey mezcal and a side of bitter mayodomo chocolate and sliced habanero. I have raved about this before at another site ;)

In any event, chocolate = divine uplifting of the senses, undescript hot peppers = endorphins, coffee = additional boost. Add them together, you certainly get a whole greater than the sum of its parts. And you'll need the mezcal...

[Lachy]

It was actually my sipping this along side mezcal that led me to my current experimentation with oaxacan chocolate and peppers. Simply stated, I enjoy my afternoons on the hammock with a glass of smokey mezcal and a side of bitter mayodomo chocolate and sliced habanero. I have raved about this before at another site ;)

Sounds like a great way to spend an afternoon. I must try it... as soon as the weather warms up, that is.

[Qhorakuna tantani]

I've got absolutely no basis for this but... have you ever tried amaranth flour or grain? It has a wonderful nutty flavour. The fermented drink 'chicha' was made from amaranth. Wonder if that would alter the flavour to make it more palatable?

[Torsten]

good idea as an experiment QT. although that woudn't be the original recipe as that most certainly done with corn.

[PD.]

Strong associations between chocolate and human blood were common among the Mayan and Aztecs. Chocolate was considered to be the blood of the Earth and there was a sacred association with Human blood. Humans and the Earth were thus related in a sacred manner. A depiction of four Gods piercing their ears and scattering showers of blood over cacao pods with text that specifies offerings of cacao beans is found in the Madrid Codex. Blood letting of humans - usually among the nobles, and animals and animal sacrifice was a common occurrence on cacao plantations during festivals honoring the Gods.

from HERE.

PERHAPS the reason for the name "food of the gods" has little to do with psychoactive effect and more to do with the strong connections/beliefs/superstitions these peoples had with their gods and the "punishments" these gods could inflict if not "happy" such as crops failing, etc.

[Garbage]

Yep,riots against the gods would upset the cocoa cart.

[friendly]

I recently saw a documentary entitled "Chocolate; Pathway to the Gods" during an archeological film festival. It was a history of chocolate from the Mayans to the present, with much footage documenting mesoamerican historical and contemporary local usage and preparation in Mexico.

There is one cacao bean prized over all others; the 'calcinated' cacao bean. These are made by burying the cacao beans for a period of time until they turn white, which takes some months. The secrets to it's preparation are held by only a few native women.

[worowa]

Hmm, white from mycelium?

[Teljkon]

sdfs

Edited December 19, 2021 by Teljkon

[t st tantra]

been told the seeds can germinate in the pod.

t s t .

[Garbage]

What would the Aztec god of sippin' whisky be like?

Can you ID that one?

Yikes,don't mention the present...