Toxiphobia

[chilli]

Sorry, this thread has been deleted for privacy reasons.

Edited October 17, 2007 by IllegalBrain

[Auxin]

I dont have much experience or insight there except to observe that toxiphobia probably isnt the only thing going on, much of what you describe (especially regarding drugs) sounds more like an issue with not wanting to loose control. Perhaps the toxiphobia symptoms have their roots in fear of a lack of control too.

And I dont blame you one bit for trying to avoid pharmaceuticals and considering them toxic. After much experience with doctors in my youth I believe anyone who blindly swallows any pill a doctor gives them has a few roos loose in the top paddock.

[chilli]

Hi Auxin, thanks for responding...

I dont have much experience or insight there except to observe that toxiphobia probably isnt the only thing going on, much of what you describe (especially regarding drugs) sounds more like an issue with not wanting to loose control. Perhaps the toxiphobia symptoms have their roots in fear of a lack of control too.

You mean the illusion of control? No, I don't want to lose it, it's like hiding in a warm, dark cardboard box.

And I dont blame you one bit for trying to avoid pharmaceuticals and considering them toxic. After much experience with doctors in my youth I believe anyone who blindly swallows any pill a doctor gives them has a few roos loose in the top paddock.

Well there are some good doctors, my wife is one...

The more recent symptoms are typical toxiphobia, but I think there may be some validity to the connection between that and the earlier drug-induced anxiety... I also think it may simply be a continuum of basic anxiety manifesting itself in different ways, and I think you are right there is a distinct underlying theme of control though.

[Evil Genius]

Hi IllegalBrain,

that´s an interesting post.A few years ago, I sometimes had the fear of being poisoned by my exgirlfriend. I think it had something to do with Pot. Beside the fact that our relationship was fucked up, weed makes me paranoid. Since i don´t smoke anymore, i rarely get anxiety attacks. It always gave me the feeling of being powerless as it numbed my brain. Btw, how is your marriage? I mean wifes usually don´t poison their husbands if everythings fine. Just a thought, maybe you try to compensate Problems in your relationship with the fear of being poisoned. I think that it could have something to do with the fear of losing control. Like many others i don´t like losing control. bye Eg

[chilli]

Hi IllegalBrain,

that´s an interesting post.A few years ago, I sometimes had the fear of being poisoned by my exgirlfriend. I think it had something to do with Pot. Beside the fact that our relationship was fucked up, weed makes me paranoid. Since i don´t smoke anymore, i rarely get anxiety attacks. It always gave me the feeling of being powerless as it numbed my brain. Btw, how is your marriage? I mean wifes usually don´t poison their husbands if everythings fine. Just a thought, maybe you try to compensate Problems in your relationship with the fear of being poisoned. I think that it could have something to do with the fear of losing control. Like many others i don´t like losing control. bye Eg

Hi EvilGenius, thanks for your input... yes, those symptoms I mentioned are apparently remarkably common, I guess its understandably not the kind of thing many people own up to though:

"here's your drink"

"did you poison it?"

"what?"

"I thought maybe you had put poison in my drink"

"of course not!"

"oh, ok then... you drink it then"

LMAO

I should have mentioned, our relationship is very strong, we obviously have problems now and again, but we are getting along better than ever before lately... that's what makes it such a weird thing, its such unwarranted paranoia... I can recognize the absurdity of it, and yet its there in my head, and sometimes controlling my actions.

What auxin said about control really struck me... I know it should seem obvious, but I've never thought of it that way before. I am definitely afraid of losing control, so many things have been occurring to me since I read that. In fact I think it is generally good to maintain control of your faculties, but the fear of losing control is another thing entirely. More discussion later, its 7:44am and I haven't slept yet.

[Guest homoGenius]

It's really fucked up man. I seriously think the pot did it to you especially if you've smoked heavily. If the stuff wasn't home grown I wouldn't have touched it. I once caught a punk dealer spraying his buds with some sort of aerosol and maybe it was a organophosphate insect killer but I've heard of speed, junk and other shit being laced on the buds. And even with home grown the amount of ferts used means a very unnatural product in the end. Remember that THC can bind to your brain receptors and body fat stores for 30 days and more. I mean the radioactivity in the ferts can get a ticket into your brain that way. Wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

Everythings a poison though when taken in a high enough dose. Even sugar can kill a person. And soda water injected into a vein can kill you because of its potassium in it. Every alkaloid in plants has a dose at which it will start to work against you. Look at nicotine which is one of the most lethal poisons and yot people crave the stuff. So its all poison in the end. Its how much you take that makes the difference.

[Guest homoGenius]

More discussion later, its 7:44am and I haven't slept yet.

Ahhhhhhh I just realised from your timezone that your a Kiwi!

just relax man...... everythings normal.... hehe.

[chilli]

Hi homo *snigger*,

I agree that a lot of it may be due to pot, but I doubt it is related to the ferts or other chemicals used to grow it... from what I can tell it is a possible effect of chronic THC use itself. Genetic and childhood factors also play a huge role in the development of these kinds of anxieties... its been bizarre as I've talked to my brothers and sisters about it, they've told me of similar anxieties that they've had since they were kids... at least I was lucky enough not to be going through shit like this when I was 10, I think I would have lost it.

Ahhhhhhh I just realised from your timezone that your a Kiwi!

just relax man...... everythings normal.... hehe.

LOL, I'm not a kiwi, I'm just living here atm, I'm actually from Perth.

[No_One]

Brain, to me it sounds like a trust thing being amplified by the tendency of cannabis to induce paranoia.

Do you trust/feel comfortable around people when your not smoking?

Have you somehow taught yourself/learnt to expect the worst from people?

People DO have the potential to do some fucked up shit (i.e. spike your drink, murder you, etc.) but on the flip-side, what they are capable of doing may never happen.

Trusting people is a risk we take, no risk no reward. The tricks finding those you can trust.

Peace

[chilli]

Hi Shiva,

I think you've hit the nail on the head... trust is a massive issue for me, which I was just discussing with someone recently... Since I was very young I've made one bad decision after another regarding who to trust, and the way I've learned to avoid making mistakes is to basically not trust anyone. Now I don't trust anyone really, no matter how hard I try, and yes I have definitely learnt/taught (both) myself to expect the worst from people.

I have much greater confidence in my relationship with my wife and one or two siblings than anyone else, but these obviously need work! Perhaps I will do that game where you fall over and they catch you LOL.

Thanks for your insight.

[No_One]

Perhaps I will do that game where you fall over and they catch you LOL.

LOL, ya can't do that with everyone though!

Once ya know the name of your demons their powers vanish, just being aware that you have trust issues solves a lot in itself. Whenever you get anxious just tell yourself it's just your mind trying to trick ya and everything's fine, with enough effort you'll find that you'll just think that way anyway.

Good luck with it.

Peace

[Ace]

Very unusual story IB, and a big thanks for opening up to us

Since we seem to have found the main source for the fear - TRUST - who would one turn to to ease these fears? Would anyone here recommend a shrink? Has anyone had positive/negative thoughts on psychiatrists/head docs? Would you recommend a holiday away from any real trust issues or something like that? Perhaps spend more time/less time with friends? Hope that we can find a few ideas between us, as it is an issue I am kinda interested in

[chilli]

Very unusual story IB, and a big thanks for opening up to us

Since we seem to have found the main source for the fear - TRUST - who would one turn to to ease these fears? Would anyone here recommend a shrink? Has anyone had positive/negative thoughts on psychiatrists/head docs? Would you recommend a holiday away from any real trust issues or something like that? Perhaps spend more time/less time with friends? Hope that we can find a few ideas between us, as it is an issue I am kinda interested in

The psychiatrists I've seen are basically just glorified drug dealers... but there are some psychiatrists who focus more on non-drug therapy. A good psychologist would be better and generally a lot cheaper... or you could just post all your problems on here and hope for the best LOL.

Regardless of who you see or what you do, your progress will ultimately come down to yourself... the value of psychs/counsellors is that they can offer disinterested insight into your problems (especially if you pay them enough LOL), and help to give you regular feedback and encouragement, but it won't mean shit if you don't actively work on your problems yourself.

I don't know what your friends are like, so can't advise you on whether you shpuld spend more or less time with them, but its always worthwhile examining your relationships and assessing where they are at... pick out the good ones and slowly spend more time developing real companionship and intimacy.

[devance]

I have newly gotten over phobias,

airplanes

Water,lakes and sea

Mine tunnels

Eaten by sharks

On the other hand its a good idea to be careful as one can get immune depleted and not so easy to get back to the same level.

So more of drinking fruit juices even canned.

Bioflavanoids.

A buffer.

[komodo]

i also experienced anxiety and paranoia with long-term pot use, especially hydro, and also with LSD, but that may have been related to the pot i was constantly using during my acid days. since quitting pot i've found a lot of that has faded away, a great relief.

issues with trust, i guess are to do with protecting something. the roots of suffering and neurosis are in our attachments and aversions, to self, ideas, objects, people, etc. maybe being able to let go on some fundamental level of not the fear, but the thing that we're afraid of losing, is a way forward.

[chilli]

Hi komodo,

My anxiety has also largely diminished since quitting pot, although it still rears its ugly head every few months... nothing I can't handle though.

What you said about trust really makes sense, have you read anything related to this topic that you could recommend?

Edited June 11, 2007 by IllegalBrain

[teonanacatl]

My biggest fear would be loosing my mind and knowing it, if i didnt mind it i wouldnt care lol. But I do think oh ive poisoned myself when taking psychedelics because thats exactly what ive done. The hole needing to throw up, feeling uncomfortable or sick is your bodies way of telling you youve poisoned yourself and its trying to get rid of it. The compounds ARE poisons, but as to long term toxic effects, thats another issue and whilst I do think there is some (nothing is without risk) I do not consider them to be major nor common. Listern to your body, if it says no more then no more.

[Fenris]

I get mild anxiety sometimes that I believe is related to a head injury I incurred while over indulging a number of years ago. Its almost gone now but a while back I was at a party and the host had made some meade which I was trying, he said Dude you look a bit spaced out are you feeling OK? and I sad why? have you spiked the meade? at which point I was starting to decend into a vertiginous panic. He said he hadn't spiked the meade and 5 minutes later I was back to normal. The whole episode was psychsomatic.

Another time I was given a stimulant and within 5 minutes I started feeling wrong, I had to remind myself that there was no way I could possibly feel anything from what I had taken for another half hour because it simply couldn't be metabolised that quickly.

I don't actually think the head injury caused the anxiety, I think it was the fact that I could have died from my own stupidity and my mind was fighting against me doing anything so stupid again. I believe the memory of the trauma activated the anxiety as a form of coping/aversion so I would stay away from certain situations.

It took me a long time to work through a lot of that stuff. Time, healthy living, exercise and yoga all worked well.