should WE mythbust the publics concept of drugs??

[Moses]

dont know about the legality of this but

after a day of direct marketing seminars and a lot of drink it was put forward that someone should print the facts and distribute them to the public,but how???

the idea of "The Murmurings" was born(regurgitated?)

pick a topic that is in the public eye at the time that they are being lied to by the gov e.g "E" deaths

make a copy of the facts as an old one page newspaper,A4,no colour,no pix just the facts.

now the tricky bit

get as many people as you can to get a copy printed on gloss paper, just like an insert in the paper

and start leaving them on trains,buses,cafeterias, in newspapers,magazines etc.

the idea is that like direct marketing inserts that fall out you are then drawn to read them,maybe pass them around,leave them on the seat for the next person to peruse, you get the idea

the general idea is to give the public the facts as we know them not the hysteria that they are fed and maybe,just maybe it will help the tide turn a little

what do ya reckon, a good idea or tooo much piss??

[Auxin]

Mmmmm guerrilla information warfare.

The Man has at his disposal all major media outlets and even control over what schools teach so you could never hope to out-market them. However, the foundation of much of the governments anti-drug propaganda crumbles under the strain of scientific scrutiny so guerrilla-style teaching will get many people thinking if, and only if, the information is unbiased and put forth in a very clear and professional manner complete with references to scientific studies available through a simple google search.

I'm unsure about the legality, but if done right it would not be futile.

[XipeTotec]

Mmmmm guerrilla information warfare.

The Man has at his disposal all major media outlets and even control over what schools teach so you could never hope to out-market them. However, the foundation of much of the governments anti-drug propaganda crumbles under the strain of scientific scrutiny so guerrilla-style teaching will get many people thinking if, and only if, the information is unbiased and put forth in a very clear and professional manner complete with references to scientific studies available through a simple google search.

I'm unsure about the legality, but if done right it would not be futile.

i can't see any legal issues, unless we live in a oppressive society with no freedom of speech, I like it!!

[whit3rabbit]

It might be considered littering

[Hagakure]

there are many covert ways to infiltrate media these days.

if you are serious about this task and actually want to make some shit go down, let me know.

[XipeTotec]

there are many covert ways to infiltrate media these days.

if you are serious about this task and actually want to make some shit go down, let me know.

funny

[DocAzz]

there are many covert ways to infiltrate media these days.

if you are serious about this task and actually want to make some shit go down, let me know.

I'm in too.

[XipeTotec]

I'm in too.

why stop at drugs.... lets start a cult!!!

[XipeTotec]

why stop at drugs.... lets start a cult!!!

Cult Movie fan club...that is!!!!!

[oxydiser]

the general idea is to give the public the facts as we know them not the hysteria that they are fed and maybe,just maybe it will help the tide turn a little

What would ultimately be gained by the exercise? A shift in public opinion? To get more people to take MDMA? To prevent further deaths from MDMA/drug cocktail overdose? As long as a drug continues to remain illegal, the majority of folks are going to demonise it and look at it as dangerous. For compairson, the NSAIDs (aspirin, ibuprofen and the like) kill over 2000 people in the UK from complications of GI bleeding, and you can buy them at supermarkets and service stations ferchristsake.

I love the idea of underground marketing/propaganda, but perhaps used against political targets (as has been traditionally done) would have a greater effect?

[Hagakure]

its bloody simple

all you need is something slick and educational. but you are lured into reading, watching whatever, of your freewill with the incentive to be entertained.

then you just need a group of people to start the virus.

a few people in cities all over the place can bomb streets with stickers or pastings.

a few people online can bomb a few forums, chat rooms etc - only in a personalised manner - not like spam bots

then you let the virus spread as it will

im trying to setup such a virus of my own right now for something unrelated to this forum.

edit: as for the question "what is to gain?" well that depends on the message you spread. some messages are good, some are harmfull. the people who start the message are to blame or to thank so carefull attention must be paid.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Hagakure

[XipeTotec]

its bloody simple

all you need is something slick and educational. but you are lured into reading, watching whatever, of your freewill with the incentive to be entertained.

then you just need a group of people to start the virus.

a few people in cities all over the place can bomb streets with stickers or pastings.

a few people online can bomb a few forums, chat rooms etc - only in a personalised manner - not like spam bots

then you let the virus spread as it will

im trying to setup such a virus of my own right now for something unrelated to this forum.

edit: as for the question "what is to gain?" well that depends on the message you spread. some messages are good, some are harmfull. the people who start the message are to blame or to thank so carefull attention must be paid.

I believe what you are looking for hagakure, is a "meme"

[DocAzz]

its bloody simple

all you need is something slick and educational. but you are lured into reading, watching whatever, of your freewill with the incentive to be entertained.

then you just need a group of people to start the virus.

a few people in cities all over the place can bomb streets with stickers or pastings.

a few people online can bomb a few forums, chat rooms etc - only in a personalised manner - not like spam bots

then you let the virus spread as it will

im trying to setup such a virus of my own right now for something unrelated to this forum.

edit: as for the question "what is to gain?" well that depends on the message you spread. some messages are good, some are harmfull. the people who start the message are to blame or to thank so carefull attention must be paid.

Damn straight its easy.

I'd much rather a political target as opposed to a drug education campaign. I think that can come afterwards.

Spin-doctors can, will, and DO demonise anything their bosses wish. If you start a pro-drugs campaign, it'll get demonised (if it gains a following) then people will see the stickers/posters/whatever and just think "oh these idiots are at it again" and laugh.

Change the system from the top, and anything is possible. Otherwise you're pushing shit uphill. Where does that get you? all covered in shit!

[Hagakure]

word azz

welcome to the new world of hyper networked minds.

the forces that entertain the people like myspace, forums, chatrooms, youtube, wiki etc also give power to the people

edit:shroomy, i have been a fan of the theory of memes for a long time, this indeed could be called meme warfare.

2nd edit: to be a physician of society one must work out what is causing illnesses within it.

one must then work out ways to remedy these illnesses.

the problems associated with some toxic forms of religion, with mass consumerism, hyper-sexualisation of kids are due to memes within frameworks like religions or caused by large companies that caused these illnesses while seeking greater returns of capital.

fight meme against meme

Edited February 22, 2007 by Hagakure

[Moses]

great responses.looks like i dont have a drinkin problem

only if, the information is unbiased and put forth in a very clear and professional manner complete with references to scientific studies available through a simple google search.

absolutely, nothing but the facts presented in a professional manner

i can't see any legal issues, unless we live in a oppressive society with no freedom of speech, I like it!!

as long as the articles the copies are inserted in have already been purchased and no-one is slandered then shouldnt be a problem

For compairson, the NSAIDs (aspirin, ibuprofen and the like) kill over 2000 people in the UK from complications of GI bleeding, and you can buy them at supermarkets and service stations ferchristsake.

and that little gem should be told with the comparison of deaths from illegals but you wont see it in the newspapers

it is not the intention to make more users but get the heat off the chemical and on the gov for their murderous campaigns

Damn straight its easy.

I'd much rather a political target as opposed to a drug education campaign. I think that can come afterwards.

or simultaneously this wasnt supposed to be a pro-drug campaign it was just what i used for an example

the subject should be whatever is in the public arena at the time, when the publics passion is at its zenith

there are probably many different subjects that could be touched upon in this fashion

and it was suggested it should be anonymous, not some fictious group, nothing that can be twisted by them to discredit it.

oh yeah and this is just a hypothetical question

i believe it is called sedition to incite against the gov

[gomaos]

yey!

hopefully this would lead to the long overdue revolution

down with the plastic people

let the hemp people rule!

[DocAzz]

yey!

hopefully this would lead to the long overdue revolution

down with the plastic people

let the hemp people rule!

LOL as if Hemp People could hold a coup! You've got enough trouble getting off the lounge to get some more pringles ;-)

I do agree we're well overdue for a revolution. We can't keep taking this shit much longer.

If anyone wants to go a step further, then I'm in. I've been thinking alot about this lately.

[Infinitee]

Hey these pringles are schittzcher, alright? So don't be dissin' em. You just gotta keep 'em close at hand is all!

A coup, maybe not. But a plant out, any gardener should be up to such a moonlit task! Should be our duty to plant entheogens for interested and ethnobot's for the rest. Could the idea of a meme be thought of as a seed we plant? Be it in ground or mind, the seed grows, sows and spreads.

William Blake said, If the truth can be told so as to be Understood, it will be Believed.

I like that quote.

Viva la` vapour!

[DocAzz]

Hey these pringles are schittzcher, alright? So don't be dissin' em. You just gotta keep 'em close at hand is all!

A coup, maybe not. But a plant out, any gardener should be up to such a moonlit task! Should be our duty to plant entheogens for interested and ethnobot's for the rest. Could the idea of a meme be thought of as a seed we plant? Be it in ground or mind, the seed grows, sows and spreads.

William Blake said, If the truth can be told so as to be Understood, it will be Believed.

I like that quote.

Viva la` vapour!

A meme is like a unit of cultural information, passed from one mind to another. So yeh, I dig the metaphor.

Even "plant the seed" can, intrinsically, be a meme. Its a catchphrase.

William Blake... what a godly quote.... problem now days is that people are built from scratch to believe whats shoved down their throats.

Consider the Howard/Latham election. Howard... in fact, fuck him, he doesn't deserve capitalisation. howard ran a scare campaign against Latham to do with interest rates. "A vote for Latham is a vote for higher interest rates" was the gist of it. That scared the bejeezus outta people. Did it matter that the prime minister has sod-all to do with interest rates? Nope.

And what ended up happening after prick.. i mean.. howard got in? Interest rates went up... MORE THAN ONCE!!!

Is anyone pulling him up on it, for blatantly lying to the public? Nope.

Rulers learnt the lesson of what happens when they over-step their boundaries. They used to get their heads cut off. That'll never happen anymore - the public are kept on too short a leash. It doesn't help when 96% of the worlds media is owned by only 6 companies, and these 6 companies own more than just media.

btw - pringles rock!!

[cisumevil]

It might be considered littering

I think PJ has a good point! Great idea but as soon as it got bigger enough to have some kind of effect it would be shut down by the people who DONT like what you are saying! Littering is just one of the low things that they would be likely to stoop to!

[No_One]

Could the idea of a meme be thought of as a seed we plant? Be it in ground or mind, the seed grows, sows and spreads.

Exactly, it's the initial germ from which their virus has spread, we need an antidote. They planted there seed years ago and have watered it and fed it all the right nutrients and look at it now. It is now a tangled vine, a weed that has manifested into the widely held societal negative attitude toward drugs.

At its essence it's a case of Good versus Evil. The truth being Good in this instance. Evil has gained prominence fighting it's cause with lies, should you fight fire with fire? A good fight is never clean.

How do you weed memes? How do you pull off a band-aid? What's the strategy? Think Global, Act Local! Know thy Enemy!

Let's pool some ideas, I'm as toey as a roman sandle for something like this, GO Fight Club!

it would be shut down by the people who DONT like what you are saying!

If it's done well enough you could do it without their being an actual "YOU" that is saying it. Sort of like a Santa Claus/Robin Hood/Batman type arrangement. They can't arrest a symbol. They still have to prove you did it, where there's a will there's a way, you'd need to be extremely criminally minded. Is the risk/effort worth the reward though?

Edited February 22, 2007 by Shiva

[BlackDragon]

IMHO, I think its not the best ideas, sorry. I feel like its akin to "sprooking" religion.

We all know the governemt are fooling us with what certain religions are doing, and we all there are only a few in those said religions(or factions of) that are causing the problem. No matter how many times you tell people not all muslims are extremists, the majority of "joe average" still believe the hype, even though the walk amidst musilms everyday without knowing or caring, quite safely of course, and we all really know that its the "individual", not the whole religion.

I draw similarities between the two, religion and drugs.

In a way, the direct marketing of drugs(yes, thats what people will see, not truely informed info as you propose) is like the annoyance people encounter with the mormons or seventh day adventists knocking on your door. We all know that they exsist, but its their in you face attitude that makes them unwelcome, that forcfullness for us to listen to their views on whats right or wrong, makes us more resilliant to their cause...

I guess Im trying to say, that no matter what you put under peoples faces, how true it is or not, the complacency of the "bastardized brain" will always win, its easier for people to accept the median bullshit than positive new outlooks. Its simple, I think word of mouth(proven to be more effective a marketing tool than most anyways) is sufficient(well, its how enthobotany exixits anyways), as long as the message doesnt achieve "chinese whisper" status. Think of this forum, and the forums alike, as the first step into the unraveling of this whole drug misconception.

It seems if people really want to change their attitudes, they will look for answers, not just accept the shit thats fed to them.

By the way, newspapers inserts will only go to the already mis-informed and darma-junkies anyways. Do you believe anything YOU read in the newspaper?? I think mass media is one of tyhe biggest poisions of all, and including newspapers. Utter shite they are, and im happy to call journalists makers of mass poision...

Bd.

PS, i think we do a really good job of mythbusting our own conceptions here within our realm, imagine trying to make rational discussion within the mass media?? I cant imagine the lengths they will go to to rip apart the mysthbusted drug/s, even scientific study will be construned, because they know no one will seek out the truth, again, feeding the "millions of complacent bastardized brains".

Complacent, geez i love that word!!

[No_One]

I agree with your sentiments. Setting the bar too high for what you expect to achieve is self indulgent idealism but it can provide the neccesary inspiration or motivation to manifest those ideas into an actuality. All journeys begin with a single step, all journeys are a process of change, what is it that needs to change? Edison said that genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration - contributing to the creation of an ideal world is enough inspiration for me.

Complacency, is an ugly word, it's akin to being dead in my book. "(People are either) busy growing or busy dying"...Bob Dylan.

It is a widely held view that the government doesn't want it's people to use psychedelics/mind-altering substances so the majority can't receive any assistance in attaining any enlightenment to help them think for themselves. Those that have visited these places and put some thought into how the positive aspects of these alternate realities could be incorporated into our consensus reality have some responsibilty to atleast make an effort to help push the ball of change that is already rolling, some are obviously going to be stronger at pushing than others but many hands make light work. How do we do this, share your knowledge! You can't really call yourself a Shaman if you don't bring anything useful back to those that don't have the ability/balls to visit these vistas themselves.

The garden analogy is the best so far, the garden of truth is being over run with weeds and we need to formulate a plan to take to it with the round-up, break the whole into smaller parts and find feasible solutions to these parts and the shole takes care of itself. You have to admit, the weeds got into the soil somehow, the soil being the consciousness of the masses. To pentrate the soil to plant the seed you can use a finger or whatever but to penetrate peoples consciousness you need to muster their attention creating a line of transmission for communicating the message, the intensity of attention they give to something depends on aspects such as beauty, aesthetic, harmony, qualia - basically anything a good piece of art has, the more intensely they focus there attention on your message the deeper it penetrates, spreads its tentacles and becomes an attitude, it's the antithesis of the goal of mass media.

[XipeTotec]

I agree with your sentiments. Setting the bar too high for what you expect to achieve is self indulgent idealism but it can provide the neccesary inspiration or motivation to manifest those ideas into an actuality. All journeys begin with a single step, all journeys are a process of change, what is it that needs to change? Edison said that genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration - contributing to the creation of an ideal world is enough inspiration for me.

did you get this from a tony robbins seminar? ha, just joking with you shiva, tony robbins is alright with me!

Edited February 23, 2007 by shroomytoonos

[No_One]

Nah dude it's cool, I fully agree with ya.

I have an intense Dr Phil streak that I struggle to keep a lid on. I'm trying to learn to tone him down a bit cause I fucken hate Dr Phil.

They say that what you hate in others are repressed aspects of yourself so it comes naturally for me, that dickhead is making money from it so it's probably something he's had to work at becoming. Who's version of truth is more correct I guess is a matter of oppinion.

My version of truth was been developed by sending my culture tainted mind into the cosmos and putting it back together again, His was developed through trying to crack it as a college grid-iron player, falling flat on his arse and working out where to go from there.

It's like everything though I suppose, others have the option to take it or leave it.