stilnox, the new crazy glue

[mark80]

I find it absurdly irritating that the government can happily let this shite enter the public for general use, probably only tested a couple times

Actaully most pharemcetuicals are rigiroulsy tested...

The governmanet ahs let booze into societies and it has worse stats than stilnox.

Seriously. If they can only make f*cked up decisions, why the hell cant we make our own? At least that way we can only blame ourselves if we make a mistake.

Its a matter of health economics amongst other things. Otheriwse every tom dick and haryy (and most porbably ace ) would be self perscirbing narcotics and storng antiobiotics evertime he has a cold. The abuse whould than have detrmental efefcts on your health and you would expect to be treated, albeit for free, in a hosiptial.

Pharmaceuticals and drugs in genreal SHOULD be controlled.

. I know for a fact most people will learn much faster that way than listening to the bunch of tossers in Parliament and their individual areas. I am so strongly against the government (namely the department of health) deciding whats 'good for us' when they cant even get this shit right... Bunch of tossers.

How many people will kill or injure themsleves becuase of the abuse of these drugs? Talk about massive law suits.

I am in no way saying this system is perfect, but you do need a governing body to prevent things getting out of control, otheriwse i would be oxytocin, morphine, stilnox.

When you consider that applying a statical anaylsis such a chi sqaured the results arn't that alarming. Espipcally if you consider that people porbably have NOT adhered to warnings.

Don't get me wrong i do not agree wth it all but a free for all system most defintantly wouldn't work.

This reminds me of a stroy when the stilnox saga first came about, i was sitting in a guest lectrue with some medicial students and they had a guy talk about the pharmectuical industry, and he defended stilnox left right and centre, when i was wlaking home I saw his mercedes benz convertible with stillnox sun reflectors, i had a good laugh.

[chilli]

you do need a governing body to prevent things getting out of control

Not sure I agree that is a need for most people, but even if it is that way the question is... out of who's control?

Things like this are good IMO, because like lil Jonny's statement recently about all drugs being 'evil,' these situations serve to really demonstrate the absurd and arbitrary nature of our society's demarcation between 'good' and 'evil' drugs, and in an interesting point of segued factoid, the ancient Greek word pharmakon was be used to describe either a drug or a poison, usually defined by the context... I'm not sure why those crazy poststructuralists have such a difficult time realizing that... why won't they listen to me?

Besides, from the reports I have read about Stilnox on Erowid, it sounds like it could be an interesting substance for further exploration (ie it could get you completely fucked). In any case, I tried it once, had a panic attack (because I thought it was going to "switch me off") and then acted very strangely for a couple of hours... this was about four years ago, and I only found out about Stilnox through a Simpsons episode I watched a couple of months back, which as usual explained many things about the nature of reality to me.

[mark80]

Not sure I agree that is a need for most people, but even if it is that way the question is... out of who's control?

Out of the uneducated publics control

I personnel think That anybody who doesn't know what the hell there doing with drugs can get them out f control, Like how many people would know the dangerous drug combinations.

I know some people who know moreabout there ocnditions and drugs than there docotr but these people are few and far bewteen.I coul bet of narcotics weren't controlled by some governeing bodies we would have od's and a drug problem. I thought o fif a fairly good job of explaioning why we need a governing body?

maybe not?

[chilli]

Out of the uneducated publics control

I personnel think That anybody who doesn't know what the hell there doing with drugs can get them out f control, Like how many people would know the dangerous drug combinations.

I know some people who know moreabout there ocnditions and drugs than there docotr but these people are few and far bewteen.I coul bet of narcotics weren't controlled by some governeing bodies we would have od's and a drug problem. I thought o fif a fairly good job of explaioning why we need a governing body?

maybe not?

What I meant was that it is really the governmental system that is really exercising control, and beneath the painfully hypocritical/ignorant rhetoric and moralizing I believe that prohibition is simply one more no-brainer way of keeping a population in check... just another vector of governmental control in our day-to-day lives. The sunny side is that yeah all these laws are for our protection, but really I don't think people need to be protected from themselves, it is only when people's behavior infringes on the well-being of others that I think we need law enforcement. Legislating what is and isn't good for us isn't good for us... IMO people's ignorance is hardly a sufficient reason for the government to step in and start throwing its weight around. FFS, when the government is legislating how you can build your own (for example) deck on your own land, am I the only one that thinks there is something awry?

I'm not sure if I'm misreading your question... I guessed you're saying you explained why we need a governing body, but I can't see where you did that, which is why I think I must be missing something.

[mark80]

My comments only relate to pharamecuticals and the genreal population having accesses to these un-monitoried. Lots of government regulations are stupid.

From what i gathered from ACE is thaMaybe i am missing something?t he was saying that people should be able to take wat they like. Maybe i am missng something?

[chilli]

My comments only relate to pharamecuticals and the genreal population having accesses to these un-monitoried. Lots of government regulations are stupid.

From what i gathered from ACE is thaMaybe i am missing something?t he was saying that people should be able to take wat they like. Maybe i am missng something?

You seem to be... look up libertarianism on Wikipedia.

[Ace]

Wow, I had completely forgot about my comments in this thread! Looking back I can see the poor attitude I used to hold towards governing bodies but I can also see where I was coming from. I really do know that there has to be someone telling us what is safe, unsafe, ethical, unethical, etc. I know that there are far too many clowns out there who, if the chance was given, would kill themselves within a few hours due to easy access to dangerous substances/compounds/meds/activites and a lack of knowledge on how to act intelligently with such things. I understand that there is rigorous testing on every substance that hits the supermarket/pharmacy shelf and that every drug has its dangers.

I guess my main gripe was that this appeared to be a very dangerous OTC drug (at the time of posting) and that it looked as if the governing authorities had not done enough research to make a clear judgement on this one (hence the 'if they cant do the research properly, then why shouldn't we just do our own or listen directly to the researchers' attitude). I certainly dont think that pharmeceuticals (perticularly the dangerous ones, which are pretty much all found behind a pharmacist's counter) should ever be unrestricted (things like sleeping pills, barbituates, narcotics, pain killers, etc) because there are already too many good, decent people who are hooked on OTC drugs. Restrictions are sometimes the only thing stopping people in these circumstances from losing their lives (either via OD, obsession with the drug, or destroying thier relationships with their loved ones). Without them people would simply abuse them; incorporate them into their daily living (like caffine, nicotine, alcohol, etc) where they would slowly kill them; or OD due to a lack of control, common sense and knowledge of their effects/dangers.

Edited January 24, 2008 by Ace

[mark80]

You seem to be... look up libertarianism on Wikipedia.

"Libertarians believe in limiting the power and ability of government in order to maximize overall liberty"

I don't beileive in that, i think we need governing bodies.

[Ace]

I'm with Mark on that one, although it was probably a reference towards my initial posts. Please note that my words were rather poorly based remarks and I can now see that.

[mark80]

It is no way a personnel attack on anyone, it was just my view on ace's comments you are more tha wlecome to have your own opinion and i will not personnelly attack you for it. I know alot of "stoner" people who try and get pills from the doctor. If you ermeber the episiode were "house" tried getting vicodin for faked zygomatic fracture, he actaully memorised it and went into the doc. I think he got something else, so was pretty pissed.

[husk]

i think most sleeping meds are fucked. the only reason they make drugs this strong is cos of the ridiculous lifestyles we are supposed to lead. if u can't sleep AT ALL for several nights in a row, or yr body is too sore don't u think there are reasons why that should be assessed FIRST. this is the main problem with drug use, ppl don't know what it is or how it works and really don't care cos it's convenient, a quick fix... this sort of logic can be attributed to most of our society's problems i think.

there is a general lack of responisibilty because ppl think the health system and the government are guardians of some sort, yet constantly question their integrity, and then when ppl die from poor care in a hospital or the govt. fails to act upon somthn they can find no fault with anybody else but the hospital staff/admin body/govt.

shit happens ppl. the fact of the matter is a lot of things out there that u can buy to supposedly cure ailments are bullshit.

they don't work and the manufacturers don't really care cos as long as you've bought it, they've made there money and thats why they exist. why do u work? to make money. would u be doing yr job if u weren't paid to do it? i doubt it.

i really am suprised here somtimes by the ammount of ppl who are interested in ethnobotanicals even fanatical yet still use pharmacuticals for such common 'problems' as not being able to get to sleep. i just think that there is a certain amount of ability or ingenuity lacking from some ppl that just pop a pill for anything. not to mention how destructive and disrespecting many pharm companies have been/continue to be especially in regards to theft from ethnobotanical using indigenous ppls.

ace said somthn about being able to self medicate yrself with age-old tried and tested natural substances(?)... i totally agree, then someone said ppl would pass the blame for incorrect dosage or adverse reactions(?) that is true too but that is because of this lack of responsibility to one's self. many ppl cannot accept their fate and their demise being caused by one of the many things that exist because of our 'world of convenince' e.g car accidents. cars exist, life is apparently unliveable without them and noone is going to stop using them so we just have to accept many of us may die from vehicle related injuries.

the reason that prepackaged synthetic meds ready to purchase are legal and natural substances that one can grow with relative ease are illegal is because they both make A LOT of money, the health and well being of humanity does not factor into it one iota.

sorry, no offense intended... just venting... angry, usless, cheated, lied to, made fun of *sob sob*

peace x

[chilli]

It is no way a personnel attack on anyone, it was just my view on ace's comments you are more tha wlecome to have your own opinion and i will not personnelly attack you for it.

Bro, aren't you talking to Ace?

I don't understand people saying things like "we need people to tell us what to do, what is safe.unsafe, ethical, unethical etc" is this a Christian Science forum? Seriously, since when are people in government/law enforcement more intelligent/knowledgeable/moral than the rest of us? Why do we think there is a separation between the "people" and the "rulers"? Is this a fucking democracy or a fiefdom?

Edited January 24, 2008 by IllegalBrain

[mark80]

Bro, aren't you talking to Ace?

Yeah I was but just like if i said to ace " jews are wnkers" some one other than ace could take offence.

we need people to tell us what to do, what is safe.unsafe, ethical, unethical etc" is this a Christian Science forum?

Like I said previously my comments ONLY realte to everyone having un interupted access to pharms. You need people who mediate which drugs are givern out and to whom, modern medicine would fall to bits if it was a free for all of drug takers having access to everything... I am not saying that should tell me that dating more than one girl at a time is wrong or that

I shouldn't be able to gorw this plant... I don't agree with that at all.

Seriously, since when are people in government/law enforcement more intelligent/knowledgeable/moral than the rest of us

I would imgaine that docotrs who prescribe this stuff are a lilttle more knowledgeable than the genareal public, how many average people would know the physiopharmacology of wolfrin? A very popular drug or even more common somethng like midozlam?

How many people would know not to take aspirin a week before surgery?

[chilli]

Yeah I was but just like if i said to ace " jews are wnkers" some one other than ace could take offence.

Like I said previously my comments ONLY realte to everyone having un interupted access to pharms. You need people who mediate which drugs are givern out and to whom, modern medicine would fall to bits if it was a free for all of drug takers having access to everything... I am not saying that should tell me that dating more than one girl at a time is wrong or that

I shouldn't be able to gorw this plant... I don't agree with that at all.

I would imgaine that docotrs who prescribe this stuff are a lilttle more knowledgeable than the genareal public, how many average people would know the physiopharmacology of wolfrin? A very popular drug or even more common somethng like midozlam?

How many people would know not to take aspirin a week before surgery?

Okay I see where you're coming from a bit more now that you've gotten more specific... so it is really just in relation to prescription medicines? Definitely should be some kind of system in place I think, but the problem is once you start getting patriarchal in one area (eg what we can and can't put in our bodies), it's murky waters and very quickly a whole lot of control is yielded, always ostensibly for our protection. I guess that's why I thought you were speaking in general terms as well, because it is always the same argument "it's for your own good, just do what we say" IMO the big difference with prescription meds is that they are being made by less than scrupulous pharmaceutical companies whose bottom line is profit, and they are also amongst the richest (and therefore most powerful) people in the world... regulation of one powerful group taking advantage of a disadvantaged group is necessary IMO, but also education is a big part of it... the trouble is that law makers rarely seem to listen to the opinions of educated health, science and social professionals when making their laws.

[mac]

i was prescribed stilnox for insomnia & restless sleep from pain, anyhow i had first hand experience at this weird drug.

i remember taking the first one but did not go to bed, sometime after that it must have kicked & i vaguely remember i got into the (did i take my pill syndrome) from what i can tell ? & took another , & another ?

i must have wandered around the house eating them like tik tacks because i polished off half a dozen & found a heap trailed through my house

at one stage my house was filled with lots of imaginary people i think they were elves ? or midgets, leprechauns ?(my lounge & pillows).

it was almost like the experiences i have read of people who have taken datura, at some stages almost a delirium where you can phase in & out of the trip but don't remember alot of it

i dont suggest anyone tries stilnox for the experience as i ended up on a unregistered dirt bike at around 9am when i realized where i was & had to close one eye just to balance & get myself home.

a friend who passed me that morning said it looked like every muscle in my body was twitching & no balance while i was sitting on the bike in traffic ??

luckily i only ended up with a bad burn from the exhaust pipe where i melted through my pants & several layers of skin

this was more than likely my fault for not going straight to bed but i was not informed of any side effects by my GP

im actually glad i had the experience but if i ever felt the need to try it again id make sure i had a good sitter with me with a video camera

Edited January 8, 2009 by mac

[C_T]

hehe, stilnox is a really scary thing...

I haven't left the house, but have had a similar experience where the next morning 1/2 the pack is gone and no idea wtf happened. And certainly was not my initial intention to take that many.

Personally, anything you cannot feel come-on, is dangerous. Stilnox, you do not feel. Its particularly bad if alcohol is consumed.

Whereas Temazepam and the like, may have an addictive nature (but without repeat scripts its impossible to be addicted off 30 tablets) you can judge the dosage easily, as you feel its effects, and you won't turn up somewhere random the next day.

An old work college took some stilnox, plus was drinking that night. Story goes, he somehow drove his car to the shops, something happened and he returned home, where he knocked on next doors house asking silly questions and pretty much not making any sense. They called an ambulance, and he "woke up" in hospital. LOL and this guy was working in a sleep disorders clinic at the time...

[mac]

Personally, anything you cannot feel come-on, is dangerous. Stilnox, you do not feel

very true

i still wonder why i dropped the pills all around the house just uncoordinated , was I feeding the elves ? or like Hansel & Gretel leaving myself a trail to find my way back to reality ?

Edited January 8, 2009 by mac

[Siggor]

i have taken it myself and the come on was, a spining head, weak body, and can't hardly walk.

alot of those instances that people found themself sleep walking and such or doing crazy shit, are people that are sensitive to the chem, or have been drinking with the substance, or taken something else with it, i was worried about it but the doc assured me if you follow the direction nothing would happen like that, and that these cases are rare.

[Alice]

i still wonder why i dropped the pills all around the house just uncoordinated , was I feeding the elves ? or like Hansel & Gretel leaving myself a trail to find my way back to reality ?

I do exactly the same thing think its just uncoordination while your fucked up. I keep finding them for weeks afterwards, in the most odd places.

Haven't had stillnox for ages now, probably a good thing, though I do like it. However my family does not, they get so angry with me the next coz of the stupid and dangerous stuff I do while intoxicated. I dont think I'll get any more. The box never lasts long, I must eat them like tic tacs as so many are missing in the morning. At least its has very low toxicity.

Mac, did you have anything to drink before taking it, even a little bit?

For me, alcohol is the key. If i dont drink, i'm fine. I go to be and all is well. I can even remember everything up to when i went to bed. But even a glass of wine changes the experience, and causes the amnesic effect. And weird shit to happen.

If one was to do this recreationally, you really need a sitter. The potential for injuring yourself is high.

[nabraxas]

I really do know that there has to be someone telling us what is safe, unsafe, ethical, unethical, etc.

that's exactly what we have got, & why LSD, DMT, MDMA, shrooms, marijuana etc. are all illegal.

I know that there are far too many clowns out there who, if the chance was given, would kill themselves within a few hours due to easy access to dangerous substances/compounds/meds/activites and a lack of knowledge on how to act intelligently with such things.

for most things there already is pretty easy access, even a really dangerous drug like alcohol can be obtained easily by underage kids.

[ayjay101]

If these side-effects were the result of an obscure underground ethnobotanical you can bet your sweet arse there'd be less bureaucratic inertia in getting it out of circulation.

These side effects are EXACTLY like that of an obscure underground ethno that is NOT banned. Seems as though our safety is not the determinig factor at all when these laws are created. It's bloody atrocious that the dangerous stuff is the most freely availabe, yet much safer and more fulfilling stuff has been taken out of our hands.

[_e_]

one of the last nails in the coffin for my 8mg a day rivotril prscrition was som rather embarassing occurrences of amnesia, sleep walking/talking (urinating) as well as an early morning fog whereby i would rgularly start going about my day naked and half awake....

the mood and memory stuff was my primary initiative to begin withdrawals, but the increasing severe 'black outs' on a night out with the friends and a few vry embarassing and potntially dangrous occurrences late in the piece signed the 8 mth withdrawals contract.

i found the story of the kickboxer re-arranging the neighbours living room/wall hangings rather humerous i must say!

[mac]

Mac, did you have anything to drink before taking it, even a little bit?

not the night i took the pills, but i had a big session the night before from memory so that may have been why i reacted to them

still the numbers seem high for people who have this reaction compared to other sleep meds

[blog]

friend was taking stilnox, he ended up in his underpants at the westfield shopping centre a few streets away talking to someone on a public phone who very probably didn't' exist. Police found him, ccouldn't make any sense out of what he was saying and assumed he was a psych patient who had walked out of the psych hospital in the next suburb, so that's where the police took him. Had no memories of events.

Don't know if it was stilnox or stilnox & alcohol.

[oface]

...

How many people will kill or injure themsleves becuase of the abuse of these drugs? Talk about massive law suits.

I am in no way saying this system is perfect, but you do need a governing body to prevent things getting out of control, otheriwse i would be oxytocin, morphine, stilnox.

...

I know this post is almost a year old, but I thought seeing as nobody has pointed out the (presumed) typo here, I'd take the opportunity to ask that people try to be really careful when spelling names of chemicals etc. I know it seems a bit pedantic, but oxytocin and oxycontin are two very different substances. If you're not extra careful you can run into all sorts of problems.