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Yeah that's right, it's easier to call me a troll than to except your a bigot who likes to pick fights with children. Let me tell you something, I come here to post my honest opinion. If I wanted to start a fight I wouldn't come here, I'd rock down to the local pub and pick a fight with other grown men!

Your the king of kids mate, that's all you are.

I'm done!

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No, your completely wrong! There is never shared blame when someone inflicts violence onto another. The one who inflicts the violent act is always to blame! Don't twist my words!

What I'm saying is there is no such thing as a greater right or wrong, like someone pointed out, there is no such thing as this little fairy tale world of yours. Bad shit happens to good people in this meaningless occurrence we know as life, but it can usually be avoided with foresight.

If I'm walking though the bush looking up at the trees instead of the ground, then get bitten by a snake, it doesn't make me a evil person for wanting to see the trees. But never the less, it wouldn't of fucking happend if I was looking at the ground.

Is that simple enough for you to understand?

Peace as usual

 

Jabez, mate I really am trying to understand but I'm confused by your comments.. I didn't twist your words, and I don't believe I took what you said out of context.

Originally I was saying that the victim is not to blame, which you took issue with and said:

to someone who is robbed: "you only have your self to blame"

to someone who is mugged: "it is entirely your fault"

and about someone who is raped: "what did she expect."

How is this twisting your words? This was the way you used them in that post, wasn't it? It's okay if you misspoke or have since changed your mind, but don't try to make out like I am twisting your words when I am really just taking them at face value.

Admittedly, you also said "I'm not saying any victim of crime deserved it or was asking for it" but I quoted that as well, and was simply asking you how both "they are to blame" and "they are not to blame" could be true, which is what you seemed to be saying.

But now it's even more confusing because on the one hand you said they have only themselves to blame and it is entirely their fault while on the other hand you are now saying there is never even any shared blame? Again, how can both be true? Is something to do with there being no right or wrong? :P

For the record, in the situation of an abused woman who stays in the relationship and continues to belittle and provoke her aggressive partner, I think she shares the responsibility for perpetuating the cycle of violence, especially when her kids start to get affected as well, but I can understand how someone would disagree with this.. five years ago I probably would have disagreed with it myself.

I thought this would fit with your earlier claim that the victim is sometimes to blame as well as the perpetrator, and that I was conceding a point to you and compromising, but now that you are saying there is never shared blame.. well yeah, like I said I am just confused!

Anyway man, I am not trying to twist your words, was honestly just trying to make sense of them as best I could. :scratchhead:

*edit* Jabez, you kind of did have a pretty big go at vual in that post, and I think his response seemed quite chilled especially considering some of the stuff you said about him: "racist.. psychopath.. racist.. white cunt.. disrespectful.. weak.. grow some balls.. if you felt like acting like a human being.. you fucked up.. then blame an entire race instead of yourself and go trying to start fights with a couple of kids"

Although the thing you said about him looking at them like some psychopath who wanted to bury them in his front yard was pretty funny! :P:lol:

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By that reasoning a woman wearing slutty clothing is to blame if she gets raped, not the rapist, and if you walk around in nice clothes, you are to blame if you get mugged.

 

Man, I dunno where you live, but this summer season in Sydney, there's a lot of very young girls walking around in short-shorts. It's mostly disgusting to me, but..............

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No, your completely wrong! There is never shared blame when someone inflicts violence onto another.

There is indeed such a thing as shared blame. BUT, the blames are not the same type! This is the fatal assumption you are making. There is not one pie made of blame and apples, cut into halves and shared.

There is the blame to the aggressor for breaking into your vehicle and stealing your handbag. There is blame to you for leaving your handbag on the front seat while going to the movies. These blames are not interchangeable, or even barely equatable.

If you can only remember that the world is far more complex than what the English language can describe, and that if you can systematically test each assumption, you will find valuable insight. I get so utterly irritated when people argue about complex real-life issues and don't understand that their binary view can never, ever resolve the problem.

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Firstly, just for the record, I stand by everything I said and will not be changing it. You can cut and paste single sentences from what a person says and make it look however you want. Ask any good lawyer, right and wrong is simply a matter of perspective.

Also, imo, vual got what he deserved. Staring down a couple of high school kids because they were African is everything I said it was. He doesn't even know who stole his plant, yet he thinks it's appropriate to blame the whole African community because he heard on the internet that they like khat, WTF. if it was adult Africans he was staring down it would of been bad enough, but this is children we are talking about, I mean come on!  

I Also gotta say, don't know where you come from, but I'm a bit disturbed with your comment about your sister being lucky she wasn't raped because she used to go out jogging at night. There is nothing inherently dangerous about jogging in your neighborhood at night where I'm from.

But being out in the middle of the night blind drunk, without anyone looking out for ya is a different story. That logic isn't just for women either. I used to work with this alcoholic who came to work one morning saying that he woke up at the train station after a big night out, with his pants around his ankles and his wallet still in his pocket without a cent misses, lol. Why the degenerate alco admitted it I'll never know, he chopped shit for it like you wouldn't believe. But on a serious note though, I gotta say, you do seem to have a unhealthy obsession with the topic of rape, but I digress.  

Basically what I'm saying is we live in a oxymoronic world, which is what I meant when I said there's no such thing as a greater right or wrong, yet people can still usually avoid dangerous situations with foresight. From a evolutionary stand point, inflicting violence onto another lowers a persons chances of a healthy mind and/or survival, so it is always wrong, but that doesn't mean there's some unseen higher power that makes one person right and the other wrong. One decision might lower a persons chances of health and survival and another can increase it. But it doesn't make a person evil if they make a decision that lowers there chance of survival.

My original point was simply that people can usually avoid trouble by using there common sense, but this whole thing has turned into one big philosophy debate, which by definition there can be no definitive answer, it can just go on forever until one person gets bored with it and admits defeat. Which is why I hate philosophy!

Anyway, I'm starting to spend to much time here talking shit again, I think I need to get my lazy arse up and go get a fucking job! 

Peace    

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Steps over to the fire with a can of petrol

Does there always have to be a winner in philosophical debate ?

That's reducing it all to binary view as Bluntmuffin suggested - right or wrong, winner or loser etc.

I like philosophy because of the shades of grey that exist between the clear cut definitive answers.

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And in no way was i being racist a African is a African i didn't call them "Blacks" or "Nigger's".....

 

Exactly. People are jumping to conclusions.The only one mentioning black Africans seems to have been santiago. My initial assumption is that it was that fucking pervert author Bryce Courtenay, a well known African khat poacher (and lover of unusual blowjobs).

225232_10150181609384072_23088969071_7115762_7535380_n.jpg

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Well as I said Jabez, I did not take your comments out of context, and I challenge you again to show me where and how I have. You plainly contradicted yourself numerous times, sometimes in the same post, and now seem to be too proud to simply admit it.

And yes, where we lived at the time more than one woman jogging alone at night had been abducted, badly beaten and raped. This kind of thing does happen, maybe not where you live, or maybe you just unaware of it.

This does not mean I have "an unhealthy obsession with rape," as I said it was used as an extreme example to show how flawed santiago's logic was. You know this, and it is underhanded and childish of you to make such an accusation, but given some of the nasty things you have said about others in this thread I guess I got off lightly.

I then took issue with your statement that a woman who goes out at night to get drunk should expect to be raped. Also that someone who us mugged is entirely at fault and someone who has their car stolen only has themself to blame. Yet, then—somehow—the rapist/mugger/thief is to blame as well, and then again later on by some miracle of anti-logic the victim is never to blame.

You have still failed to explain how any of this can even make sense, let alone be morally sound. Instead you stubbornly stand by your comments and resort to saying there is really no right and wrong (just ask a lawyer haha good one!)—and yet I am completely wrong.

Seemingly all this because you are too proud to take back your foolish, irrational remarks, apparently unaware that this only makes you look even more foolish and irrational.

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Most of my plants are like my family, I think I would become quite disturbed at someone if they stole my children.

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Chilli, refer to bluntmuffins post. That is basically the exact point I was trying to make! He just obviously explained it in a much more intelligent manner then I am clearly capable of. Other than that, we are going around in circles and there is not much point continuing. So just chill, chilli.

But I should say, I do feel bad for those women you referred to. But plenty of people have been attacked by sharks at some of our most popular beaches, yet I think most people would agree that swimming at these same beaches is not inherently dangerous. Although I've only ever lived in the eastern suburbs and easy going rural areas, so admittedly I could be fairly ignorant on the subject. BUT, I have clearly pointed out that being out in the middle of the night, completely intoxicated, without anyone looking out for ya, can be dangerous to both males and females, so please don't manipulate my words to make me look like I hate women.

btw, the only person I've attacked, is a person who openly admitted to blaming an entire race of people about his missing plant, even though he admitted he has no idea who stole it. He then also proceeded to harass children about his missing plant, simply because they had black skin. Which makes him a racist and a bully, so I have no regrets about my comments that I directed at him. If you can't see that, well then your just as bad as he is. If you can give it, then you can take it. I feel extremely strongly about that!

Peace

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He then also proceeded to harass children about his missing plant, simply because they had black skin.

 

Where does he suggest that the suspects have black skin ? Are you assuming they have black skin because he is using the word African? That's a wee bit racist.

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Where does he suggest that the suspects have black skin ? Are you assuming they have black skin because he is using the word African? That's a wee bit racist.

 

Nice day for fishing mate, yeah?

Grow up brother, how else did he know they were African?

Peace

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If I were to live in an area populated by many Polish immigrants, I would know they were Polish not by their appearance, but by overhearing their conversations and being part of the community. Just accept that you are jumping to conclusions. Its OK to admit you aren't right all the time. Get off your soapbox and learn some self-humility.

It hardly matters if he WAS speaking about black Africans, the fact is that he didnt mention it, but you assumed it regardless.

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Grow up brother, how else did he know they were African?

Peace

 

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please don't manipulate my words to make me look like I hate women.

 

I am chilled, just been potting up some cacti, soaking up the heat and about to jump in the pool.

But again you accuse me of manipulating your words yet you fail to say how I have done this.. your words speak for themselves, I only quoted them to ask you about some contradictions which you never answered.

I didn't get the impression from what you said that you hate women, only that you flatly contradicted yourself a number of times.

It's a good thing this thread is already in the degenerated threads forum!

By the way, I think if vual lives in an area where there are a lot of black Afrcians walking past his house, it is far more likely that one of them recognized a plant that is so culturally signifcant for them than someone else.

Most white kids don't even know what Khat is.. I certainly wouldn't be able to recognize it if I walked past one.

So I don't think it is really racist to infer that one of them stole it. It would be racist if he blamed the whole race of being theives, but I didn't get that impression from what vual said.

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Vual clearly has no interest in being apart of the community, he'd rather just scare the shit out of children walking to school!

Chilli, peace brother.

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Sorry your plants were stolen vual.

It's interesting how people who weren't even "there" are so willing and eager to classify you as a racist. I guess it's not PC to get robbbed by africans. Next time tell a white lie n blame it on norwegian backpackers.

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Damn you make a good point there Hendry. It's just not politically correct to blame an entire race of people over some stolen property, when you were not even "there" to see who stole it. It would have been just as racist to have blamed norwegian backpackers, although not nearly as feebleminded as taking it out on a couple of kids walking down the street. Thanks for helping me prove my whole point mate.

btw, I couldn't give the slightest shit about what's "PC", as you put it. I'm talking about respect for your fellow human and not blaming people for a personal misfortune, simply because of there culture, race, personal beliefs or class.

Maybe it's a mistake that I come to an Australian forum dedicated to creative enhancing drugs to get away from all that hick mentality? That's Australia for ya though, I suppose.

Peace

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I think a lot of people are too quick to cry racist. We're just having a discussion here, no one's encouraging hatred of non-caucasians... sheesh...

I really do dislike racism, and I don't think vual's comment was racist at all. If a bunch of African migrants (a culture with a well documented use of khat) moved into my street and then my plant (which probably 99.9% of the population can't even identify) then got ripped off then I'd probably come to the same conclusion. Doesn't make me racist, and it doesn't imply that all Africans are thieves either. I wouldn't approach them about it anymore than I would approach an asian or a mexican or whoever, if I had no proof. And he stared down some kids, so fucking what? Don't know about you but when I was a kid I got up to all kinds of no good! So no matter their appearance, chances are they we're guilty of something right?! (That's a joke, btw.)

I am an australian with roots back to the first settlers. I also happen to be married to an African migrant. (Well, Zimbabwean, close enough lol) So there :P

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lol @ thread

:P

 

this thread started out so harmless :wacko:

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if i was mexican i would steal your taco

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I thought the discussion was quite interesting. It can be hard to discuss racism and I think in general the topic was talked about without too much drama.

I didnt consider the first post to be openly racist but I think that was the choice of words rather than what vaul really thinks. The use of 'abo' later on was pretty dodgy IMO.

I do think that staring down some kids because you assume they are of the same continent as the assumed thieves is quite messed up. Outside of racism its a dumb thing to do to kids without any knowledge of their connection to the situation and to me it shows the level of unfounded judgment that vaul has of others based on appearance alone.

It seems, more so than people crying racist, that people are scared to discuss the topic of racism as a whole. For me its interesting to see how a community engages with the topic

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