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LikeAshesWeFade

Legal Weed: Is it really legal?

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Lofty, please read post #13. This is based on industry knowledge and confirmed by multiple analyses.

as for the original spice, it was simply JWH018. The various other agents were there to mask and 'explain' the activity. It contained oleamide for example, which is know to be a CB agonist, but the quantity in it was not sufficient to have any effect, nor does oleamide survive smoking, nor does it actually have a stoning effect [it's a knock out drug with no other sensation].

There is no known combination of MAGL and FAAH inhibitors that actually works to any 'nice' degree. They are just being used as a smokescreen because evidently people still fall for the same BS 8 years later.

My friends have now analysed more than 20 of the supposed legal mixes [the actual mixes from the overseas manufacturer, not the repackaged/rebranded australian products] and none of them were free of CB agonists and hence all are illegal. Several of them did contain FAAH inhibitors, but only for masking or increase of effect [amounts were not enough to contribute substantially].

I see this industry not dissimilar to the hippie claims of 500 microgram blotters. There are people who actually analysed the stuff and KNOW whats on them and then there are people who speculate and/or believe the promotional BS. So far EVERY claim made in regards to the smoking mixes has been shown to be false. First it was 'no synthetics', then it was 'oleamide only', then it was that NZ lichen, then FAAH inhibitors, now MAGL inhibitors. All of them were/are lies. Kinda amusing to watch really....

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Most of these post ban blends must contain a similar class of synthetics. I mean going by the reported effects, they all seem to hit hard and fast, but only last for about 15 to 20 minutes.

Personally, I’d really love to know what there spraying these blends with, there no joke.

After reading reports about how mild these post ban blends were I smoked one large cone of code black with absolutely no tolerance and not really expecting much, but in fact it completely annihilated me! It was seriously the most intense feeling I’ve ever felt. Lol, at one point I got so paranoid I convinced myself that some government agency or fanatic religious group must have laced this blend with some horrible drug that would scare ya from ever getting stoned again, or to just knock us loser bong heads off for good.

All I can remember is sitting on my floor, unable to move, with every negative aspect & occurrence I’d ever experienced in my whole entire life flashing though my mind at 1000km an hour, well I just thought to myself, “you little bong rat! You’ve really fucked up this time”.

Anyway, I’ve been smoking code black 24/7 for the last few weeks and still can’t have more than half a cone without getting to stoned. I’m also seriously starting to get that really dark feeling of living in a meaningless existence and impending doom. What’s worse, is I think I’ve gotten myself seriously addicted to that intense 10 minute cannabinoid like rush this stuff produces.

JWH-??? Was one thing, but personally I see some serious health effects arising from these new class of synthetics. I’d just personally advise anyone who’s got an addictive personalty or suffers from suicidal tendencies to stay far away from this shit, it seriously can create panic (or pure fear) and bring about a dark meaningless reality from within.

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Most of these post ban blends must contain a similar class of synthetics. I mean going by the reported effects, they all seem to hit hard and fast, but only last for about 15 to 20 minutes.

Personally, I’d really love to know what there spraying these blends with, there no joke.

After reading reports about how mild these post ban blends were I smoked one large cone of code black with absolutely no tolerance and not really expecting much, but in fact it completely annihilated me! It was seriously the most intense feeling I’ve ever felt. Lol, at one point I got so paranoid I convinced myself that some government agency or fanatic religious group must have laced this blend with some horrible drug that would scare ya from ever getting stoned again, or to just knock us loser bong heads off for good.

All I can remember is sitting on my floor, unable to move, with every negative aspect & occurrence I’d ever experienced in my whole entire life flashing though my mind at 1000km an hour, well I just thought to myself, “you little bong rat! You’ve really fucked up this time”.

Anyway, I’ve been smoking code black 24/7 for the last few weeks and still can’t have more than half a cone without getting to stoned. I’m also seriously starting to get that really dark feeling of living in a meaningless existence and impending doom. What’s worse, is I think I’ve gotten myself seriously addicted to that intense 10 minute cannabinoid like rush this stuff produces.

JWH-??? Was one thing, but personally I see some serious health effects arising from these new class of synthetics. I’d just personally advise anyone who’s got an addictive personalty or suffers from suicidal tendencies to stay far away from this shit, it seriously can create panic (or pure fear) and bring about a dark meaningless reality from within.

There are many stories a lot worse than yours. The ER is the place that hates these substances the most.

I am not trying to be rude but would you be interested in starting another thread with your concerns please jabez? I am really interested in the legalities of these products for this thread and can also offer you a lot of advice but don't want to mess up this thread.

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the hippie claims of 500 microgram blotters

haha!!!

man those sorts of claims are from people that have never had the real thing, or anything near an even moderate dose (i'd be hesitant to call 100mc a moderate dose, as its more likely VERY high dose).

foaf got some blotter from eu, took a full one as test, total ego death. i mean blacked out, woke up with zero memory and every hour regained a layer of consciousness like an onion peel.

same in 1/2 was still ego death

same in 1/4 was borberline ego death, and i'd say the full was nowhere near 500mics from many years of research... of course can not even begin to estimate the dose, but im pretty fucking sure it was not 500 per tab!!! but for 1/4 to still do very good effect means most would that that is strong, hence over estimate what strong really is (ie people taking 8 tabs etc.)

id pay money to see someone eat 5 of those badass ones. because their realization of potency with be forever changed.

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Code black is the one I was talking about a few posts ago - I had half a cone of that and the same thing happened (paranoia, fear of 'going too far', difficulty moving etc). Whatever is in that is BAD, and some of my friends are showing signs of dependence too. Not seriously bad, but things like using it to get to sleep which can lead to worse dependence.

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T, all you're post's in this thread should be quoted on that Aussie incense forum. They realy need someone like you over there

Thats if you can sign up. It keeps denying me saying it thinks im a spammer.

seems to be a fair few scammers out there as well. Selling bags of plain damiana for $30 a gram

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T, all you're post's in this thread should be quoted on that Aussie incense forum. They realy need someone like you over there

Thats if you can sign up. It keeps denying me saying it thinks im a spammer.

seems to be a fair few scammers out there as well. Selling bags of plain damiana for $30 a gram

Or some more intelligent members at least. Please come across if you would like to. There are a lot of angry 16 year old stoners on there though.

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can barely keep up with this forum, so have to decline. also, in my experience people tend to believe what they want to believe about these products. Here people trust me because they know me, but over there I would need to justify a lot of the claims I make, which is where things get difficult. the reason i know so much about the products is because I get all the industry inside information and help a lot of businesses to get their products analysed overseas [for legal and safety reasons]. This is all information I can only share in the vaguest of terms as a trade off for getting it. If I was to back up my claims with brand names, manufacturers, importers, etc, I would quickly lose my sources of information. That is why i generally won't comment negatively about any particular product. These products come in waves and it is usually sufficient to treat them in a very generalised manner while picking out the rare exceptions that are truthful.

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BTW there is a commonsense analysis of the word "mimetic" - It means "similar in action to".

Therefore, something that is opposed in action, like an antagonist, would be an "antimimetic" - something that can BLOCK the actions of a mimetic. Therefore cannabinoid antagonists can't possibly be cannibinomimetics, under any sane definition. If the general level of discourse is pharmacological and not behaviouristic, anything which produces a stone-like effect but is not a cannibinoid agonist will not be a cannibinomimetic either. It would be a fairly easy defence in court - a good defence analogy would be like calling fluoexetine an "LSD mimetic".

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Common sense it not what is used in court. The court would look at precedents or legal/dictionary definitions, which would break it into two things cannabino- and mimesis. The latter is simple and exactly as you would expect, however the former is not so straight forward. cannabino does not refer to just cannabinoid receptors, but to cannabis itself. So the court has a choice of picking either one/some of the dozens/hundreds of pharmacological activities of cannabis, or pick the overall effect [in the lay meaning]. To make your point that this is ridiculous you would need an expert witness that is credible before the court. This usually adds about $10K. So while you might be right, getting the judgement in your favour will still cost you.

I agree it is a long stretch to claim a substance that does not work on CB receptors to be a cannabinomimetic, but I am going with my lawyer's advice on this one.

You are definitely wrong about the antagonist issue. Cannabis doesn't just contain THC, ie CB1/2 agonists. There are substances in cannabis which also block CB receptors. Cannabigerol is one of several CB antagonists naturally occurring in pot and hence anything mimicking these would also be a cannabinomimetic.

In your LSD example you chose to pick and chose what you previously dismissed. You talk about pharmacological discourse as the standard, but then cite a behaviouristic example. In pharmacology there is no such thing as LSD mimetic. So when you bring this back to the pharmacological model you would then have the same problem of needing to be sure that LSD is not an antagonist at any receptors. Until the mid 90's the scientific concensus was that LSD was a 5HT2A antagonist. Then this changed to 5HT2A partial agonist and 5HT2C antagonist. Now it is listed as an agonist at most 5HT receptors. I am not sure if there is currently any known and substantiated antagonism by LSD at any receptor [not just 5HT], but if there is then fluoxetine would legally be an 'LSD mimetic'.

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looks like a incense supplier on that forum is willing to supply a WA lab report for his/her product. Will that say what is in it or say whats not?

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No BT, it will be a lie. Simply that, an outright lie. Maybe they don't know they are lying, but they are. Watever legal thing that it says it has in it, it doesn't! It will have some other illegal compound in it.

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lab reports are interesting. most reports simply state what they product DOES NOT contain and then matches this to a list of products that are scheduled. the flaw in this argument is that there is no complete list of scheduled substances because of the way they are defined. The usual list that is bandied about is the TGA list which includes about 8 or 9 compounds, but then at the end it also states 'and any cannabinomimetic'. This is a group scheduling that captures [at the very least] all CB1 and CB2 agonists and was formulated especially for this purpose. This last line is often deleted from the conversation. I have no idea whether this is intentional or because most people don't understand what it means and the implications it has.

There are usually also state laws to consider, but in WA the state list of compounds is only about 15 compounds and there is no state drug analogues clause.

If you post the report here or send it to me by PM or email then I can advise in more detail. If the supplier is indeed interested in making sure he is selling legal product then he can also contact me directly if he is not inclined to post stuff publically. Most local sellers actually don't know they are breaking the law. They are either unaware of the extent of the laws or they have been fed misinformation by their overseas sources. I know this because I get the same offers all the time, but at least I know how to ask the right questions. The overseas suppliers don't really care if the local importer gets busted cos they already have their money.

In the case of FAAH inhibitors the overseas suppliers themselves were unaware of the deception because this happened at the main lab that produces the pure powders.

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I had a friend come around yesterday with a blend called Bombay Blue.. one cone made my head start spinning and I felt extremely weird and full of anxiety. This most definitely did not feel like a cannabinoid high, it was kinda scarey to be honest. That was the first and last time I'll ever try a new blend.. I'll stick to what I already know.

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iblaze, Tropical Thunder sent me on a psychedelic trip.

Whatever it is its powerful stuff... not for the light hearted

I cant imagine a non smoker enjoying something like this for a first time experience.

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Exactly! I mean I am a HEAVY user and some blends have just been completely mind blowing.. I'm surprised there hasnt been anything come up on the media yet about people being hospitalized.

Where I buy my local blend from, they have one called Venom. That shit is another one that'll screw your head and most likely your body too.. My lips and the top of my tongue burnt from smoking that stuff. The chemical is probably fucking caustic or some shit. I knew this would happen though.. random anonymous and probably dangerous chemicals just being carelessly sprayed onto some herb. Atleast NZ is doing something different and having their shit tested now before being allowed to sell it. Australias tough cannabinoid laws have led manufacturers to use anything that gives you a buzz.

Edited by LikeAshesWeFade
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Just another "side-effect" of the war on drugs. Nothing to worry about, just keep taking your legal medicine and shut up.

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yeah the reviews for tropic thunder are saying its "trippy" for the first 15 mins. Then becomes more stoning?

Trying to get my head around the laws is ridiculous!!!

Lab reports mean nothing then? Maybe they are focusing more on psychedelics now?

I thought we did have a analogue clause in WA? so how is MXE illegal in WA if we dont have a analogues clause? Fedral??? But that doesnt explain why it was legal in VIC?

sorry im drifting off topic

Edited by Bush Turkey

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I have heard that chocolate and peanuts contain cannabinoids in small amounts.

So are chocolate and peanuts now illegal?

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probably the most worrying development is the presence of MDPV in some new smoking mixes. The manufacturers deny it, but several labs have now tested the relevant blends and found active doses of MDPV in them [ie it is not just a contaminant as was the case with phenazepam]. The product is being marketed as legal everywhere and has already been exported to australia in large quantities in the last 2 months by the USA manufacturer. The MDPV product appears to contain cannabioid agonists, FAAH inhibitors and MDPV.

The other worrying development is that the main source of cannabinoids has just released blank blotters he claims are "structurally related to LSD, but are legal everywhere". Sorry, but if it is structurally related to LSD then it is illegal in oz under the criminal code act analogues clause part f as well as under most state laws. I am thinking that it will only be a matter of time before this stuff is used in smoking mixes too in an effort to marry the largest market with the most potent substance.

It's getting very murky in that industry. Part of the reason is that the makers of the substances don't even tell the makers of the herbal mixes what the actual substance is anymore. This is to prevent news of the substance leaking out and getting into the hands of competitors and authorities. Before this started at least the herb mix manufacturers usually knew what was in their mixes - even if the local distributors didn't know. So now all trust relies on eric at cecchem who is a liar and a cheat. the health of millions of drug users is in his hands while he has no qualms to substitute whatever he likes and takes no responsibility for anything. Very scary!

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Where I buy my local blend from, they have one called Venom. That shit is another one that'll screw your head and most likely your body too.. My lips and the top of my tongue burnt from smoking that stuff. The chemical is probably fucking caustic or some shit. I knew this would happen though.. random anonymous and probably dangerous chemicals just being carelessly sprayed onto some herb. Atleast NZ is doing something different and having their shit tested now before being allowed to sell it. Australias tough cannabinoid laws have led manufacturers to use anything that gives you a buzz.

5F-UR-144 has given people chemical burns on thier hands when handling it

Edited by Bush Turkey

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5F-UR-144 has given people chemical burns on thier hands when handling it

I strongly doubt that this is from the product itself. It is more likely to be from contaminants.

eg when eric was shipping CB13 instead of the FAAH inhibitors, his CB13 was only about 50% pure. The other 50% was composed of at least 5 other compounds, 3 of which made up the bulk.One was an obvious starting material for CB13 synthesis, but the rest were bypoducts and/or other ingredients. We did not get around to analysing any of the other compounds in this mix, so dont know just how bad they were. Eric did not refund for the fraud he committed.

Another supplier that was offering one of the URB FAAH inhibitors claimed 98% purity and provided GC/MS data to prove it. My lab analysed it to be only about 80% pure. The majority of the remaining 20% was unreacted starting material. because the starting material had the same GC/MS signature they could not see it. Only HPLC could see the difference. We analysed the contaminant to be diphenyl starting compound, which was not extremely toxic, but still not what you'd want to consume. A refudn was not offered. Instead they only offered to give a 20% discount on future purchases.

Most of the labs don't have good analysis equipment. They just have the most basic stuff so they can prevent most major embarrassments. Eric [the biggest supplier of party powders and cannabinoid agonists] uses nothing it seems.

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