jjsanaam Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) mmmmmmm...... Yes, the law is the law.... but... my inner rebellious teenager thinks along the lines of.... '''''FUCK THEM BIG TIME!!!!!'''''' UNBELIEVABLE!~!!! REALLY!!! There would be too many Brugmansia, Datura, Khat, San Pedro....etc etc backyard gardens to try and control... plead ignorance I say, Until there is a 'Daily Telegraph' type notice that it is all a big no, no.... Get a good lawyer I say.... The average judge I am sure has not even heard of a 'San Pedron' Catcus, let alone a Khat plant... We are looking at a long time period of the process of information integrating into the court systems... and what would a lawyer say about a typical 600 square metre suburbian plot of land with a house covering about 50% of this? A Plantation? mmmm ? I think impossible really!!!! It cannot happen as I think about it when I write this!!! But, it actually can if we are really meant to go towards a '1984' type of scenario. In which case.... Yes...we are FUCKED! yES... TOO MANY BEERS AND GIN & TONICS... A RANT REALLY...BUT I THOUGHT I WOULD SHARE MY THOUGHTS! Edited February 20, 2011 by jjsanaam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted February 20, 2011 there seem to be some folks who don't know what to do about these law proposals. Please go to www.gardenfreedom.com or one of the other submission sites and make a submission. These sites have templates, so all you have to do is fill in your name, email addy and click send. Every submission counts. We need to at least treble the number of submissions that have been made so far if we want to be noticed at all, so please spread the word, and keep reminding your family and friends to make these submissions. There will be no second chance for this. Once march 11 rolls around it is too late to make submissions as they will not be counted - so do not delay. Each submissions counts separately, so it is imperative that each individual who does not want this proposal to become law makes a submissions immediately. make sure to use a real name and real email address because if any fraud is discovered it could seriously undermine the campaign. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted February 20, 2011 mmmmmmm...... Yes, the law is the law.... but... my inner rebellious teenager thinks along the lines of.... '''''FUCK THEM BIG TIME!!!!!'''''' UNBELIEVABLE!~!!! REALLY!!! There would be too many Brugmansia, Datura, Khat, San Pedro....etc etc backyard gardens to try and control... plead ignorance I say, Until there is a 'Daily Telegraph' type notice that it is all a big no, no.... Get a good lawyer I say.... The average judge I am sure has not even heard of a 'San Pedron' Catcus, let alone a Khat plant... Bad advice!! This law is not about hunting down every wattle in every garden. It is about law enforcement gaining access to private space and giving them power to hold over you where it suits them. eg a wattle in the garden means they can enter your house without warrant. This law will be applied selective - when it suits law enforcement. As for judges, they don't need to know what a khat plant looks like. They also don't know what most drug precursors look like yet people go to jail for them all the time. Judges make their decision based on 2 things: 1) the forensic analysis 2) the letter of the law [plus any higher case law] Most judges won't even try to understand what a plant does or what it looks like. It's a waste of time to them. The advice for good lawyer is also flawed. A cheap one will cost you about $7000 to fight a simple drug case. And chances are he will advise you to plead guilty. A more expensive one will cost $15,000 upwards, plus $10,000 for an expert witness. And that is only to fight YOUR case. Judges do not need to take case law of the same level into account, so even if you win, the next person will have to spend the same $25,000 and may not win. Only appeals cases set precedent, but these are even more expensive than that. You need 10k to make the appeal, and that's before you pay for the solicitor or witnesses. And then the whole thing will need to be done in each state because precedents are state based. Like I said, this is bad advice. if you blink now we will get stuck with these laws and then spend the next 20 years moaning about how unfair they are. The time to stop them is NOW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
incognito Posted February 20, 2011 in all seriousness, and i have sent my submission, will the submissions make any difference at all?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
incognito Posted February 20, 2011 i am hopeful, but i fear if state or fed gov want a law passed, especially when it comes to psychadelic compound containing plants (not hard to find a legion to embrace that) thats whats going to come about, be it in the near or distant future. it absolutely sucks, and im sad this day has come. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted February 21, 2011 in all seriousness, and i have sent my submission, will the submissions make any difference at all?? Yes. By themselves they are probably not too big a problem for the govvy, but they form the foundation for what coems afterwards. For example, the submissions will be summarised by the public service. we will lodge an FOI for this summary to make sure the summary contains the grievances we have submitted. The public service knows this is likely as journalists often lodge these for 'fishin expeditions'. If the summary does not match then we go after the public service for running their own agenda. if it does match then we go after the minister for ignoring it. There are interest groups that are just waiting to pounce on government waste and this law is a perfect example of the big government nanny state. Without the submissions the minister can always say he wasn't aware the laws were crap. A number of submissions also lay the groundwork for constitutional challenges - this is federal law after all. So be assured that the submissions are an incredibly important part of this process and are essential for future steps. As for the fight itself, they may just realise the stupidity of the proposal in 6 months, or they may dislike the media attention they will get after that time, or they may dislike the constitutional challenge that is bound to follow. There are potentially many years of action in this fight, but it all starts with the submissions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazonian Posted February 21, 2011 It would be great to know how many submissions have been submitted overall.. I don't suppose we are privileged to that sort of information? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marcel Posted February 22, 2011 Torsten, you seem to be in the know: when I, or anyone else, fill out a pre-filled letter to the minister, like the one on the gardenfreedom.com website, is it less effective than if I took the trouble to write an original letter? That is to say, are these letters read to hear the public's arguments/complaints, or is it simply a matter of numbers? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horus Posted February 22, 2011 Well I have sent off my submission, We have got to rally on this, I dont want to bulldoze my backyard. MY GARDEN IS A SACRED SPACE..NOT A CRIME ZONE MY GARDEN IS A POSITIVE PLACE..NOT A CRIMINAL ACT NOBODY has the authority to legislate against nature. MAN HAS THE RIGHT TO GROW WHAT HE WILL, GROW WHAT THOU WILL, SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW! Do thou will my brothers!! Stand up to those who oppose our will,our right to live with teacher plants. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
incognito Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) geez t im ut a simple country bumpkin' The public service knows this is likely as journalists often lodge these for 'fishin expeditions'. all i see is journalists get to go fishing for lodging a submission that they are against a proposed law. r u implying that we have time as long as enough submissions are forwarded? Edited February 22, 2011 by incognito Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
etherealdrifter Posted February 22, 2011 "Without the submissions the minister can always say he wasn't aware the laws were crap. A number of submissions also lay the groundwork for constitutional challenges - this is federal law after all." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted February 22, 2011 It would be great to know how many submissions have been submitted overall.. I don't suppose we are privileged to that sort of information? I have been told that happy high herbs and gardenfreedom will enter their submisison templates on the opendecisions website along with the number of times the template was submitted. This will be after march 11. The total number of submissiosn should also be available via FOI once the summary has been made by the public service. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted February 22, 2011 Torsten, you seem to be in the know: when I, or anyone else, fill out a pre-filled letter to the minister, like the one on the gardenfreedom.com website, is it less effective than if I took the trouble to write an original letter? That is to say, are these letters read to hear the public's arguments/complaints, or is it simply a matter of numbers? I would really prefer these question in the relevant threads [there are two already] as not many people will see them here. Individual letters are more effective than the templates as long as the letter follows the guidelines I have posted in the other two threads. eg do not rant against the war on drugs, stay on topic, make sure to answer the questions that are asked in the proposal, etc. But if you don't have the time or skill to write your own then simply submit the template. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
watertrade Posted February 22, 2011 Torsten got to it first! thanks for the support as it relates to Seeds Australia but there are two other discussions about this and we are best to discuss this in one place ( well 2) to keep all the good ideas together. they are http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26752 http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26539&st=0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ethnodude Posted February 23, 2011 Glad to see you reconsidered. I think you might have been a bit hasty. Would be a real shame to loose this service prematurely. That's exactly what the gov would have wanted. Hang in there mate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazonian Posted February 23, 2011 Hey no fair, you can change your thread title watertrade ?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
watertrade Posted May 16, 2013 OK - the Time has come - I'm changing the WAS back to IS I'm closing down SeedsAustralia again - this time for real! http://www.seedsaustralia.net/shop/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazonian Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) I knew something was up cause i was looking for your shop link in your signature yesterday and noticed it was missing (chasing Astrophytum asterias now since i have seen mutants plants). With the way the law is going, it was bound to happen whether you wanted it to or not . You might have more time now for other things. Thanks for the great service you provided over the years. Best wishes with what ever comes next watertrade Edited May 16, 2013 by Amazonian 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
watertrade Posted May 16, 2013 PM me your Address Amazonian - i still have plenty of A asterias I can send you. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
