incognito

Chiral

280 posts in this topic

Okay. It seems Chiral has reported he has had some trouble with, and may be under surveillance, by the police.

That SEEMS to be therefore, why people here with existing trades have not heard from him, nd he has not answered emails, phonecalls, texts nor knocks on the door.

Please forward any further enquiries to Torsten.

I apologise for accusing him of a rip. I honestly hope for everyone this isnt the case, and i hope things workout smoothly for Chiral, and that he finds himself in good health.

Anyways take care people, and i apologise for instigating a shitfight.

I amglad though that people are aware of the chiral situation and i wish all those involved to receive positive outcomes, including chiral.

-incognito

Edited by incognito

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please forward any further enquiries to Torsten.

All I can do is collect information and update affected people as needed. Always happy to do that. But it is up to the people who live local to him and who are directly involved to actually sort out their ends. It would be good to get updates of any progress either by PM or [where appropriate] in this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sorry to say, but it does not appear chiral is telling the truth. From talking to people who have previously been ripped by chiral it would appear there is little chance he will honour any trades or debts of his own accord. I suggest that if he owes you for legal stuff that you pursue him via legal means. If he owes you for illegal stuff then make up your own mind what the best course of action would be for you. I would not be concerned about him being 'hot' other than the selfincriminating stuff he posts on various forums. I suggest that those people who know his address share it with those who don't.

Unless chiral has made arrangements with his debtors by the end of december and these have been reported by both sides to me, I will make his address available to anyone who needs it [it was made available to me by one of his debtors].

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sorry to say, but it does not appear chiral is telling the truth. From talking to people who have previously been ripped by chiral it would appear there is little chance he will honour any trades or debts of his own accord. I suggest that if he owes you for legal stuff that you pursue him via legal means. If he owes you for illegal stuff then make up your own mind what the best course of action would be for you. I would not be concerned about him being 'hot' other than the selfincriminating stuff he posts on various forums. I suggest that those people who know his address share it with those who don't.

Unless chiral has made arrangements with his debtors by the end of december and these have been reported by both sides to me, I will make his address available to anyone who needs it [it was made available to me by one of his debtors].

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

im not gonna say i told you so ;P

edit- yes i am. I told you so! :P

but nooooooo one listens to incog noooooooooo.

Edited by incognito
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:rolleyes: I can always reinstate your previuous thread if you like....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HAH

incog you may have been right, but i'd prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt and be wrong from time to time, than to always think the worst of them. you know jeffie loves ya :wub:

torsten, i hope you can exercise prudence when handing out his contact details... vigilante justice can make even nice cunts do strange things.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

torsten, i hope you can exercise prudence when handing out his contact details... vigilante justice can make even nice cunts do strange things.

Na, it's really simple: He's got a month to make contact and do the honourable thing. Not saying he has to have paid all debts by then - just saying he needs to make contact with everyone and make arrangements. Anyone can get themselves into a sticky situation, but shafting others who trusted him is not the way to solve it. Chiral hid behind the trust and anonymity he has at this forum. In real life people would not hand over those amounts of money without knowing where to find someone, so I feel that those who got sucked into this relied on the references and support from those who knew him better and who knew where he lives. I could just as well connect all the people who got ripped and let them work something out as a group, but I think it is probably better for chiral if he works with each one individually which is why I am not keen on connecting everyone. So the only way to even the playing field is to share the information some of the affected members have provided with those who have less information [with their permission obviously].

I am not terribly compassionate when people use this forum to rip members off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not terribly compassionate when people use this forum to rip members off.

Fair enough, but if any further unpleasantness were to eventuate, it could end up reflecting badly on the forums and the community.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

conan troutman take two... the problem is if people see this as a common thing and scamming starts at any scale, the whole of trading will become nothing as it'll be full of scammers... very very sad indeed.

ive only purchased cacti off people i've ordered through before since being scammed by conan...

Edited by C_T

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not terribly compassionate when people use this forum to rip members off.

As far as his posts on here imply he has a wife and kid(s) who really dont deserve to have their address given out and their potential safety at risk.

Some compassion for what his family could be experiencing also (if this all turns out true) wouldnt be such a bad thing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am not terribly compassionate when people use this forum to rip members off.

i'm a firm believer that there should be honour amongst thieves... but just remember he's got a wife and a little daughter.

i'm not sure if you're familiar with that ex-con who was floating around on the forums a while back threatening mindexpansion with grief over a trade that turned sour between chiral and him... bizarre to say the least!

i just wouldn't go handing out his address to new members or ppl whose mental or moral compass is spinning round without any clue of true north.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well if he didn't blatantly steal from people he wouldn't have anything to worry about huh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can always reinstate your previuous thread if you like....

whatever floats your boat?? however i do believe you came across as the bigger of the two knobs :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

be good to remember him by his good deeds...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must say, I am quite surprised by this. He always struck me as a good guy, though I have not met him in person. He also seemed to have contributed a lot and been quite generous in the past.

I though he now had some awesome sound studio/tv job or something? What does he have to gain by ripping people off here? What I mean is (and I have no idea what sort of money we are talking about here) even if it's a couple of grand, that sort of money is just loose change to a working professional on probably $100K plus a year.

And taking the time to be a mod, and to make 3 billion fucking posts is a hell of a lot of effort to go to to just so you can deceive some hippy's of a couple of grand.

So what went wrong? It just doesn't make sense to me :scratchhead:

Obviously people aren't in a position to give more details, but it does come across like we're burning him at the stake here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alice, Chiral WAS a good guy. Things happen in life that change people and it seems this is the case here. Some drugs can really alter people's characters - or at least bring out the worst in them.

Chiral can avoid any further problems by simply making contact with the people he left hanging high and dry. Like I said, this is not a deadline to settle all debts, as that would be unreasonable. It's a deadline to make arrangements - something he should have done by himself right from the start. he's got a month to do so, which is why I really don't care what consequences follow on from that. I don't believe his wife and kids are at that location anymore, but will confirm this before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing that gets me regarding these events, including Troutgate, is the seeming lack of communication. Point being, that I'd like to give these guys the benefit of the doubt and say that they probably had personal problems that led to financial problems, that led to them being unable to follow through with deals. The thing is that this community is very forgiving when they're kept in the loop about things. Honesty is always the best policy in these cases, and if either of these guys started a thread elaborating on the details of the situation, including how much they owe and how long it might take to pay everyone back, I think people who have lost money here would be very patient. Even if the thread simply said, "Look guys, I've gotten myself into financial trouble. I don't ever expect to have the money to pay everyone back. I'm sorry that what my own difficulties have affected you, and I don't expect to ever be trusted within this community again," honestly, I think it would come across better than lies and evasiveness that Conan displayed, and from what others have said here, it appears Chiral too.

It's unlikely, but is it possible that Chiral set out to rip people off from the start? He's one of those members that got a very high post count very quickly by posting a lot of useless stuff (although I must admit he was very good at collating relevant news articles and posting in the news forum). He gained peoples' trust VERY quickly with his own generosity, post count, and mod status. Isn't apparant generosity common with con men? Anyway, like I said, it's unlikely, but then why the evasiveness and lying?

DISCLAIMER: I only know what I've read in three thread that have discussed this, so I could be talking shit. Those who know the specifics may have a better understanding of why he has behaved in this way.

Edited by ballzac

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just as an outsider looking in chiral had made it clear he had problems with drugs in the past one drug in particular & some of his posts over the last few months (here & The Nook) made it clear he was using again & his behaviour on the forums also seemed to change. I'm not saying this is what its all about as I have no clue but theres no way I would have traded with him in the last few months let alone any sizeable trade.

Just saying this did'nt realy come out of the blue & there were signs there, Although yes he deserved the benefit of the doubt but looks like incog had decent insight, if only he had a little more tact...

Peoples actions sometimes just do'nt make sense when addiction is at play.

I hope all this can be resolved.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's unlikely, but is it possible that Chiral set out to rip people off from the start? He's one of those members that got a very high post count very quickly by posting a lot of useless stuff (although I must admit he was very good at collating relevant news articles and posting in the news forum). He gained peoples' trust VERY quickly with his own generosity, post count, and mod status. Isn't apparant generosity common with con men? Anyway, like I said, it's unlikely, but then why the evasiveness and lying?

I don't think he did. I can think of better groups one might target for a scam, like groups where people actually have money. No one here flaunts wealth, and there is rarely any discussion of topics that may indicate wealth. 3000 posts etc is far too much effort for a scammer to go to. Of course, there is big money in drugs and drug related activity, but again I can think of other forums that would make better targets for that, eg forums with a higher finance-working-late-20's-cashed-up-weekend-warrior to plant-loving-free-spirit-hippy ratio.

Well if he is having problems with heavy drug use again then that's a real shame, one would hope when you get to his age and have had his experiences, that you realise that you can't just bounce back as well as you used to. If I started taking drugs again in my 40's as enthusiastically as I did in my late teens / early 20's, that would be the end of me for sure.

A bad situation for everyone involved, a real shame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn't suggesting that he was just a random con man who picked SAB as his prime target. He obviously has a strong interest in ethnobotany. Just that he may not have been the good guy he came across as. Not making accusations here. I certainly don't believe this is the case. Just playing devil's advocate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a person effected by this situation,I think Torstens proposal is fair.

I already know his address so that part doesn't really apply to me.

I have better things to do than intimidation and aggression.

We would just like the decency of some communication.

A simple explanation or apology would go a long way.

Anything that would motivate him to that would be grand.

Even if he was "hot" I am sure he could have gone to an internet cafe and signed on under another name,

made 10 posts then PMed all those anxious people waiting for some word.

I am glad he is not "hot" as that really could undermine the whole security of the site.

Question is......is he still looking at the site,does he know of this ultimatum?

Torsten,are you actually in communication with him?

I am sure nobody on this site would do anything to affect his wife and child.

I certainly have the capacity for forgiveness,if he were big enough to get in touch with me.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

seconded

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just as an outsider looking in chiral had made it clear he had problems with drugs in the past one drug in particular & some of his posts over the last few months (here & The Nook) made it clear he was using again & his behaviour on the forums also seemed to change. I'm not saying this is what its all about as I have no clue but theres no way I would have traded with him in the last few months let alone any sizeable trade.

i'm not sure which of the two you are talking about but it doesn't really matter. both can influence people to shitty behaviour and it's gotta be the most likely explanation. i do recall that with one, he talked about wanting to get clean and so forth, the other one did not seem to be a problem in his view which is an attitude that can be... a problem... and even moderate daily use is a bit of a burden on one's income.

maybe he lost his job

Edited by ThunderIdeal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hey, people it's only my guess but i don't think he ever had any, even so slight malicious intent.

some people when they are using a lot, don't have any other affairs than the using, not to say he is, but he might just be on a bender after some family break down or so.

and let me just say something,

shaman australis as a trade forum has an outstanding reputation, i think that hardly anything ever goes wrong with the trades here.

i think the best is, if we send him some good vibes, he's wellbeing is paramaount to any finacial loss.

yes, i am worried about his health.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now