Acacia alkaloids?

[Gunter]

In many plants, which are well known as producers of alkaloid, tender new growth has been shown to be the most rich in alkaloids, this is also often accompanied by reddish tones speculated by some to be oxidized alkaloids or metabolites of them, particularly in cases of plants containing tryptamine alkaloids such as phalaris species.

Some tests of plants are potentially deceptive.

A plant with alkaloid rich new growth, such as the tea plant (a caffeine containg specie) will test as having a fairly low amount of alkaloid in general for leaves, and yet the new tender growth if tested alone is far stronger, sometimes 5X so.

It is my suspicion that several plants considered as having a low alkaloid content in general may have much greater alkaloid content in specific parts of the plants, in particular I suspect that the tender new growth of several Acacia plants may be rather rich in alkaloids on a %/weight basis while older leaves would be far less potent.

In particular I challenge people to take a closer look at Acacia melanoxylon, whose reported content of 0.02% alkaloids for bark and leaves seems potentially deceptive. The tender new growth of this plant, of the phyllodes, which appear to the botanical-layperson to be leaves; are rich in red tones which are often indicative in this family of an appreciable alkaloid content, moreover these red tones fade from leaves as they age.

It seems as if the sugar rich tender growth of the plant may be protected by alkaloid content, which is not required for older leaves. There are many factors to consider in regards to alkaloid production, including time of day and season and individual specimens etc, so one should be highly cautious about the interpretation of data as representative or indicative of qualitative and quantitative reality pertaining to a plant specie or specimen, rather one should regard a chemical confirmation and reported content with some degree of curiosity and avoid asserting such data as indicative of some consistant or typical fact.

Unless one has replicated an analysis or verified or personally explored and researched a plant species via a primary research method, they should certainly avoid pretending to know that a plant is or isn't alkaloid rich, regardless of what data they have been presented.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Archaea

[zelly]

Unless one has replicated an analysis or verified or personally explored and researched a plant species via a primary research method, they should certainly avoid pretending to know that a plant is or isn't alkaloid rich, regardless of what data they have been presented.

It is my suspicion that several plants considered as having a low alkaloid content in general may have much greater alkaloid content in specific parts of the plants, in particular I suspect that the tender new growth of several Acacia plants may be rather rich in alkaloids on a %/weight basis while older leaves would be far less potent.

 

I'm pretending to be confused.

[psili sausage]

Well I'd be happy to hear that melanoxylon is a good source of alkaloids cos that shit is everywhere around my area.

[Gunter]

melanoxylon root bark

[Yeti101]

Now doesn't that look interestng...

[planthelper]

i know of one report which found melanoxylon root bark did not yield any alkaloids.

i am a firm believer, that young tips are stronger, with many plants.

i think the same for roots aswell (kava, iboga).

[t st tantra]

star jasmine new light green tips seemed a much better smoke than the old leaves or bark.

crowea new foliage smelled quite nice even though old leaves smelled nasty.

similar to catha and heimia.......

t s t .

[Magicseven]

edited

Edited November 1, 2010 by Magicseven

[Yeti101]

[planthelper]

 

 

[Rabaelthazar]

 

 

[Gunter]

At least some forms of this species should receive more attention.

[∂an]

would you say its worth growing melanoxylon in the back yard?

[2Deep2Handle]

I have to agree, that generally alkaloids are more present in fresh tips, as the alks are generally a defense mechanism to protect them against their most hated conditions.

For example, the fresh tips on a Catha edulis leaves require my gnome to munch a fair quid at the moment for effect, and as much 'old' fresh leaf as possible to get any effect. This is due to them been relatively happy atm, with little threat from the blistering sun and over-humid conditions that they quite often succumb to.

Now, in summer, when the sun is booming on them, they do their best to protect themselves, by producing more of desired alkoloids (cathinone and cathine in this case).

I know this because i can watch my gnome get a big smile on his face and charge for hours of a simple little quid of 5 fresh tips, picked in the blistering heat during hot months.

Ill stop my rambling now, but in conclusion, would love to tests done on whatever species to determine the same-alkaloid variance in same strains from one season to the next.

Could be interesting me thinks

2Deep

[Gunter]

it is worth gathering rootbark in early winter/late fall

[Mycot]

Melanoxylon is a total dud. Until someone can show different all else is speculation.

[Gunter]

Melanoxylon is a total dud. Until someone can show different all else is speculation.

 

Show different in what way for whom?

What do you think this thread is all about, speculation?

Go ahead and think that. It doesn't bother me at all!!!

Dud(?), yeah some of them.

But not all of them.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Archaea

[tripsis]

I fail to see how discussing DMT percentages (read: potency) in Acacia species is any different to discussing mescaline percentages (read: potency) in cacti. Yet the latter is strictly prohibited, but the former is not?

[Mycot]

Show different in what way for whom?

What do you think this thread is all about, speculation?

Go ahead and think that. It doesn't bother me at all!!!

 

Yes I do feel this thread to be overly speculative.

I would not begin to discuss DMT content in an acacia species(of which there are over 900) picked at random any more than I would discuss mescaline content in a cactus picked at random.

Additionally it should be remembered that there are many acacia alkaloids just as there are many cacti alkaloids.

After some experimentation I may indeed have something of interest, until then its too speculative.

I don't mean to be a PITA so this is no slight on you Archaea.

Dud(?), yeah some of them.

But not all of them.

 

We'd need something in the way of evidence before this could be accepted at face value.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Mycot

[Gunter]

We'd need something in the way of evidence before this could be accepted at face value.

So did I.

[Mycot]

Rather than taking a random approach, a more efficient approach may involve proceeding from the known.

This may involve looking at species that are closely related as is the case with acacia sect Julifloreae.

Genbank may also be useful in revealing close relationships.

[mud]

How many ppl here stop to give a tree a real good hug?

Stop, turn and HUG? No matter who is looking..?

That's gotta be one of the trippiest things ever. Could even be worth hours of entertainment.

Trusting our intuition, and listening to the plants is the way

Australians have done it for 40,000 years.

[kadakuda]

TLC should be a good way of basic screening that most people could readily do.

I often wonder about red as well. I have seen some very red barks and am now able to tell if a bark is going to be very red or not before cutting, and they are active, very much so. but so are pink barks. Still trying to get a good method of quantifying things though.

on new growth, it seems colour is more light related. new growth is more sensitive to bright sun, which is exactly what new growth faces at the top of the tree. I have absolutely NO clue on acacia, but with peyote light seemed to play a role in alkaloid production. I dont know a ton about chemistry so cannot really say what, if any, the relation ship is between plant pigments and alkaloids or if they are just a coincidental occurrence in a reaction to a like factor.

on one acacia here plants that grow on sparse dry hillsides have thicker and darker red bark, always. denser forests that are flatter (=more moisture and shade) are thinner/lighter red. not sure which is stronger yet.