australia, the racist country

[Ace]

Opinions are like arseholes Xipe - we've all got one I can see where you are coming from, and yeah, generally Aussies are fairly racist. Have you ever talked to your grandparents about racism? I know my grandmother is still quite racist, simply because that was the way it used to be. My mum isnt racist, and neither am I, certainly not to the same degree as earlier generations (though I do dislike people that shit me, I dont hate or even dislike any one 'type' or 'race' of people - just clowns). I occasionally make a racist joke (I'll probably get flamed for that, but lets face it, I aint the only one who likes a good 'Irish joke' ) amongst mates, but it is all in humour (albeit, probably very lame and not worthwhile) and never said around the 'type' of person being poked shit at (I dont like upsetting people any more than the next person). I still dont see it as being truly racist, because when it comes down to it, I treat all people equally and fairly. Everyone deserves respect and no one should be tarred with the same brush.

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble and going in circles, so to wrap it up, I think racism (true racism, like downright ignoring/assaulting/abusing someone because of their heritage or culture) is very rapidly fading out of every society worldwide. Especially as we begin to open our borders electronically (via the net), we begin to see that we are all the same (lol, you are unique, just like everyone else).

Like I was saying earlier, calling a quiz racist because it involves researching about a countries heritage, culture, people and general way of life simply doesnt quite cut it IMO. I would be more than happy to have someone move in next door and not speak a word of english and not know a thing about the place that they now inhabit, but at the same time, I'd probably prefer for them to know a little about us. But if this quiz is just to give them the right to vote - frankly, who cares? There is only going to be another f@ckstick in charge after the next election anyway!

[Ace]

Not sure what you meant by that AJ - but if you are saying that because of this quiz (or test, or whatever it is) that we are forcing our values on cultures that want to inhabit Oz, then I dont think that's the case. Just living here will probably be enough to do that. If some immigrants shouldnt have to learn about our history, why should our kids learn it in school? Why not just forget all about our origins and history all together, after all it has been quite racist and violent? History is history, it is in the past and cannot be re-written. If it were up to me, I'd like to see it all very different, without slavery, without divisions between cultures, but it just didnt happen that way. Luckily I think times are changing and these times of genuine racism are rapidly fading and will soon enough disappear as the world discovers that it has become so multicultural that there are no divisions.

A little test isnt going to divide people any more than they already are, it is simply a test to determine if an immigrant genuinely wants to live here. And as a side benefit, they learn a little bit about our history and culture - where is the racism?

[nothinghead]

Ace, do you think it is correct to assume that just because Australia has strong nationalist tendencies and people want to know "about the place they live" (albeit in a very limited way, as evident by this test) that the experience of a refugee from, say, Africa, should have a similar sensibility and interest in sport, WHIG history, and leisurewear colloquialisms? Would their knowledge of these things bring a greater "respect" to their way of living? Do you think this basic knowledge will be more beneficial to them than an inquiring nature, as well as a respect for the nation born reciporically out of the government treating them well?

And in what way does a knowledge of history (and a very limited one, again indicated by the test) correlate to respect for where one lives? Respect is not gained through a spattering of general knowledge specific to a governmental agenda. And since when does our government/nation have such a wide respect for history and culture? Have you got any examples of Australian policy that support this claim?

Another claim: Being racist was not the national condition, it was (and still is) a majority opinion. I speak to my grandma often, and she is not racist in the slightest. In fact, I speak to a lot of older people that live in this "racist era" you are referring to, and many of them have no trace of racial discrimination at all. Obviously many do, but I think saying "its just the way it was" is typical of your simplistic arguments, you often make wild claims that seem to have no basis other than your personal opinion. I'd also be very interested in how you came to the conclusion that "real racism" is quickly fading from the world.

Lastly, I think your rhetoric of "there's worse places out there, so why worry" is deplorable, comparing yourself to the worst possibility and taking pride in being better than it is a pretty paltry excuse, and certainly not a way of justifying anything.

[Torsten]

but to demand that all immigrants speak english seems divisive. Is it fair to demand that people fleeing torture & death speak english before we release them from detention centers? or that the wife ov a chartered marine civil engineer on a professional development visa speaks english?

In the first part you outline the differences between residency status and citizenship yet in this part you seem to get them confused yourself. It would be nice if all permanent residents [as defined by that visa category] spoke a basic amount of english, and this is indeed a requirement for PR visas, but what does that have to do with refugees? A refugee can stay on a refugee visa and progress to PR as his english skills improve [as long as the other criteria are fulfilled too]. Similarly a PR should need to be fluent in english and have basic reading and writing skills before becomign a citizen. I am not sure why that would be a problem. Many other countries do this too.

I've been in oz for 25 years and will take aus citizenship the day germany allows dual citizenship . And I would not expect myself, any of my family or anyone in a similar situation to be offered citizenship without speakign the language. I think language is an important part of becoming part of a nation.

[Auntyjack]

Not sure what you meant by that AJ - but if you are saying that because of this quiz (or test, or whatever it is) that we are forcing our values on cultures that want to inhabit Oz, then I dont think that's the case. Just living here will probably be enough to do that. If some immigrants shouldnt have to learn about our history, why should our kids learn it in school? Why not just forget all about our origins and history all together, after all it has been quite racist and violent? History is history, it is in the past and cannot be re-written. If it were up to me, I'd like to see it all very different, without slavery, without divisions between cultures, but it just didnt happen that way. Luckily I think times are changing and these times of genuine racism are rapidly fading and will soon enough disappear as the world discovers that it has become so multicultural that there are no divisions.

A little test isnt going to divide people any more than they already are, it is simply a test to determine if an immigrant genuinely wants to live here. And as a side benefit, they learn a little bit about our history and culture - where is the racism?

Ace the test isn't racist, its a tool used for winning votes (pathetic as it is).

So '..why whinge about this petty little test?' My response was directed at this, as I find holding the people responsible for representing me at a government level is extremely important, they need to be accountable to the right and wrong of exploiting such a situation for propaganda, this disgusts me because as I grow I find I hold myself more and more accountable for my beliefs and actions.

This test itself has very little to do with why ppl are passionately responding.

Can you see now?..or did I just make that worse?

AJ

[Ace]

Cough, all I was saying is that this test isn't racist or some government tactic to get me to vote for them. Sure, it depicts us as the trashy bogans that we seem all to comfortable with (at times I'm happy enough with that image, but being on these forums has really changed my views about it, in a good way). I agree with the test to *some* degree (provided it is more in depth and covers more than our swimwear colloquialisms), because I believe it is a reasonable ask for immigrants/refugees to have an understanding of our culture. If the quiz is exactly what was linked earlier, then yeah I would say it is a total waste of time because the questions truly are trashy and dont hold any true value of what the everyday culture represents.

No, I dont have examples of government policy on respect for history or culture - personally, I regard a knowledge of a countries history and culture respectful because it shows that you could actually give enough of a shit to research about it before setting up camp and calling it home. Like I said before - I wouldnt want to move to a foreign country without any knowledge of their culture/history because I deem that totally disrespectful. Hell, I even feel uncomfortable going into some restaurants because I dont want to offend the people serving me lunch. I know it is somewhat contradicting in that the Europeans invaded Aus without too much care about the aboriginal culture (if any) and I am one of the resulting decendents of said euros, but it doesnt mean that we cant have different values to what our 'forefathers' had.

My claim that racism is beginning to come to an end - of course it will probably never end and of course not everyone over the age of 60 is racist. I was simply saying that in my opinion (and apparently that aint worth much ) with growing multiculturalism and the magical thing that is the internet, the invisible walls that divide groups of people are slowly being broken. Of course it will probably always remain to some extent, but I know that I can see a big improvement over just 3 generations in my family (this is only an example - your situation may be totally different), going from a fairly racist generation right thru to a very multicultural and accepting generation. I'm not saying that's just the way it was - of course it would come down to endless variables, but this is something that I have noted myself.

Lastly, I think your rhetoric of "there's worse places out there, so why worry" is deplorable, comparing yourself to the worst possibility and taking pride in being better than it is a pretty paltry excuse, and certainly not a way of justifying anything.

When the hell did I say that? I said ‘I'm sure there are other countries out there with even more tight immigration policies, so why whinge about this petty little test?’ and ‘Or they could find somewhere that cares less about their history and culture...’ in response to Xipe’s ‘and if they dont like it... they can go back to where they come from!’.

I'm not saying that we are great or anything like that, I am just saying that if a refugee is so disinterested in their proposed home that they cant even sit a basic test about its history and culture, then why not go else where with more relaxed immigration laws? Is that an unfair call?

All of the above is my own views on this subject - like it or ignore it. After all this is why we have a forum isnt it? To discuss our points of view on these sorts of things?

Sorry AJ - I thought I misinterpretted that I agree it is probably just a tool for winning votes, it is that time again and there are plenty of unusual and even stupid ideas coming into play, but I just dont see this as one. I'm certainly not going to vote any differently based on this idea - and I seriously doubt any Joe Blow would. Like I said above, is it really such an unfair thing that these people who want to live here have to fill out an extra sheet of paperwork which requires some research beforehand? A lot of the immigrants would probably enjoy learning about our culture anyway - I know I would if I were moving to a new country (but I guess that could just be me).

[husk]

i don't know what xipe actually meant by this test being racist but it seems it has been taken to mean 'refugees'? mainly from africa?

now i may have missed something in the news recently (thank god) but why all this interest in african refugees??

such a small minority would not create this kind of campaign surely?

it seems this test popped up after obvious aversion to the new terrorist threat or as i am more likely to understand 'fear campaign' of 'fundamentalist islamic terrorism' which does not have anything to do with race, despite the media's wonderful work in targeting middle easterns, so i think it is generally about 'values' more than anything so the government wants islamic immigrants/refugees to learn about 'our values'.

and so the government doesn't want people in this country that don't respect or love the 'culture' and it's 'values' that they are selling us, you and me included, right?

this is not 'australian culture'. it's 'howard's culture'.

the current way of life in australia, industrialism/capitalism, whatever(!), and all the goods and bads that came along with it is global economic culture. before that, colonial english culture. before that it was indigenous culture.

since europeans settled here the ppl that have been shat on and kept down by the successive governments and authorities have faught for their rights to be and live how they want to; aborigines, convicts, women, workers, homosexuals, students...

that was and is what i consider to be 'australia's shared culture', fighting the fucking system...

AND not being arsed to also!

we should care about what we believe in but not to the extent that it hurts or hinders others.

because for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction right?

so for every culture/lifestyle/belief there is an equal and opposite culture/lifestyle/belief.

both have their place, both are relevant.

and with each race, culture or just plain indivdual that comes to this land there is one more way of thinking, living and believing

and, as i see it, the cultural right to do so.

so 'our values' concern irrelevant sporting and colonial history huh? well i don't value that!

so i must work in whatever industry available to me to be considered counted right? well fuck that!

does that make me unaustralian? does that mean i should move somewhere else? does that mean im going to hurt someone?

NO!

if australia is truely multicultural then it should mean that anyone can come here and value whatever they want.

obviously the government does not value this country's multicultured society as it stands, not meaning the one as seen on TV but as lived by each of us in reality, for it it did the people who do know these facts and nothing else would be required to take a test highlighting the values of every culture that exists in australia.

there is no common ground or respect here and as such this test should be removed.

*seriously i don't think anyone who comes here ultimately to terrorise or commit harm in the name of a god or whatever is going to want to become a citizen anyway... well hopefully not. *

so this test is against the right to personal beliefs and values not race.

although from a shortsighted point of view, if yr so interested, where only certain aspects if society are considered debatable or countable, such as the colour of yr skin, then it is racist as it is dismissive to aboriginal historical facts and as such places a lower value on them therefore considering 'howard's values' more important as howard is unfortunately 'white'.

but all this debate about race and religion and who we think we are collectively is keeping us from evolving to anything more than that and surely that suits the government just fine.

peace, love, unity and respect x

[Vertmorpheus]

Hey cool it, or yez can all get the fuck out my country, and take ya budgie smugglers with ya! Chuck another gimp on the barbie, n all that. Borats bringing sexy back...

This isn't entirely different to qualifying for a rental property, finding a woman silly or loving enough to stay with you, or getting a degree... there is the shit that you NEED to know, and lets face it the system is hard enough to work out for us locals so you have to be fairly bright to get yuor head around it if you are from the backblocks of the Sudan... all these tests etc are just a way of making you you CARE enough and can get your shit together enough to be allowed to call yourself an Australian (thuogh most of us that can, can only do so my accident of birth and boatpeople combined anyway, right? Can we be so proud of pure chance?) . As a nation we don't really care if you know what DT's are, or what goes into a Pav (we are rapidly filling up with vacant 20somethings that have to google things like "how to boil an egg" anyway) ... just that you can demonstrate the one TRUELY aussie trait... jumping thru hoops whilst bent over backwards because it is written in some mighty place that that is just what you have to do.

A decent whack of Australians speak so poorly you cannot understand what they are on about... whether its govt.ese (coming soon to a police press release/centrelink form/rates notice near you) or boganese (yeahwelllikeineverfuggindidnunathatshitbutthatswhattheyrekneh?")... in general I find most "immigrants" to have almost painfully accurate english skills, makes the rest of us start talking like primary school teachers so as to not sound too dense and colonial I have an english australian sister in law, a vietnamese neighbour, scored cactus bits from an old maltese bloke the other day... yeah sometiems it takes a lil more effort to understand and be understood, but it surely isn't that taxing... I think peoples real irk with "them furrin speaking types" is the secret and lets face it probably justified fear that they are talking about and laughing their arses off at your funny little customs.

It's a silly test, I don't think its quite jackboots and razorwire... it certainly comes from the same side of the fence, but I don't think its too far away from sensibility. Any introduction of anthing like this will inevitably piss off all us community minded types somehow, and the real rednecks n whitebreads are never happy until they see people being loaded onto cattle trucks or labouring for free. It's a token thing.

This shit is really designed to please people like a former employer of mine that I swear would nearly froth at the mouth in misplaced jingoism if he heard some kid say "sidewalks" or "cellphone" or someone calling rubbish "trash" but still drove a japanese ute, wore baseball style caps, etc. Wankers. NIgglers. Old-mate-down-the-pub-ism. That, or the reactionaries against that way of thinking and living... you can spot em easily, by their womenfolk looking underfed in summer dresses and big brown Paris Hilton shades... he lives in a dreary world between colorado rock sandals and polo shirts. They eat nothing but pad thai, drive korean four wheel drives, and call their kids things like "fabian" and "christabelle"... they HATE any Aussie-ism from trakkies to meat pies, and would probably die if they went a whole day without lemongrass in some form. They would be happy with the test as long as q's were things like "where is the nearest DFO?" and "its 10:45 on a saturday morning, you are headed for westfield, park near the doors or up top round the back?" "plasma or LCD?" and "satnav - godsend or a total waste of money that could be used for spanish for babies lessons".

I can see all sides, as per.... I hear if you don't like emigrating to Australia procedurewise you just go to NZ, hang out for a few years driving on the wrong side of the road and then we let you in no worries. Least we have options?

I can't see it as racism, though... maybe "in support of racism"... given that it naturally favours those that spent their childhood watching Neighbours and Skippy anyway, rather than those who had one phone in their village and it belonged to the unspeakably savage warlord and child dealer, or something. Typical social filtering, not nice, but hardly rare.

Welcome To Australia,

VM

[nabraxas]

but what does that have to do with refugees?

i was replying to an earlier comment that anyone seeking to live here should speak english.

i trying to make the point that refugees shouldn't be expected to speak english, & also that if someone w/a skill Australia needs enough to give them a professional development visa brings their spouse with them, is it unfair to expect the spouse to have a certain level ov english.

Would it makes sense to turn away a world class surgeon on the grounds that their partner didn't speak enough english?

England never gave a toss if you took another nationality, so i became a citizen as soon as i was eligable. Now i have 2 passports to play with.

Edited October 4, 2007 by nabraxas

[nabraxas]

I believe it is a reasonable ask for immigrants/refugees to have an understanding of our culture.

immigrants i can understand; but would you really ask a woman who had seen her family murdered, had been raped, tortured & left for dead, if she could name the first prime minister ov Australia as a condition ov providing her w/a safe refuge?

Edited October 5, 2007 by nabraxas

[nothinghead]

My claim that racism is beginning to come to an end - of course it will probably never end and of course not everyone over the age of 60 is racist. I was simply saying that in my opinion (and apparently that aint worth much ) with growing multiculturalism and the magical thing that is the internet, the invisible walls that divide groups of people are slowly being broken. Of course it will probably always remain to some extent, but I know that I can see a big improvement over just 3 generations in my family (this is only an example - your situation may be totally different), going from a fairly racist generation right thru to a very multicultural and accepting generation. I'm not saying that's just the way it was - of course it would come down to endless variables, but this is something that I have noted myself.

All of the above is my own views on this subject - like it or ignore it. After all this is why we have a forum isnt it? To discuss our points of view on these sorts of things?

A rise in multiculturalism does not automatically equate to a drop in racism. Multiculturalism did not begin to occur because a group of people decided it would be nice to mix cultures together and all get along, it is a label given to the social result of immigration catalysed by economic trajectories. Australia is a great example of the way multiculturalism does not equal racial tolerance - this is not based merely on my opinion, it is based on reading up on Australian history, sociology and current affairs. I think this is a better way to evaluate something like the citizenship test than relying on your singular experiences in life.

I realise this is just your view on the subject, but I still think arguments on a public forum need to be substantiated a little more than just being based on opinion formed by nothing but personal experience.

[Vertmorpheus]

A rise in multiculturalism does not automatically equate to a drop in racism. Multiculturalism did not begin to occur because a group of people decided it would be nice to mix cultures together and all get along, it is a label given to the social result of immigration catalysed by economic trajectories. Australia is a great example of the way multiculturalism does not equal racial tolerance - this is not based merely on my opinion, it is based on reading up on Australian history, sociology and current affairs. I think this is a better way to evaluate something like the citizenship test than relying on your singular experiences in life.

I realise this is just your view on the subject, but I still think arguments on a public forum need to be substantiated a little more than just being based on opinion formed by nothing but personal experience.

Well, none of this is based on hard numbers, just my piffling personal experience... so strong minds, look away.

You can't begin to be tolerant of different kinds of people til they are LIVING AROUND YOU. Once you have different kinds of people living around you for longer than the initial "oh thats a bit strange" stage, things settle down, and ppl just seem to get on. Been a while since anyone seriously suggested Chinese or Greek Aussies go home... cos we've moved on, now its lebanese , syrian etc that cops the shit. As for "does not equate racial tolerance".... been a while since our last major purging/ethnic cleansing/cattle truck transport industry went on. I can go to the local shops and hang with 20 if nationalities and noone is giving anyone a hard time. If an asian driver cuts you off, yes, plenty of people will say "bloody asian drivers" but that doesn't mean they beleive they should be paid less for the same work, banned from living in certain areas,been a time since blackfellas werent allowed in town inside Boundary Streets outside of permitted work hours, been a while since anyone worked essentially for free on the basis of race, been a while since anyone shot a dozen anyones to death in a local gully. Been a while since we haven't had black,female judges, etc. yes, there ARE people that do think some quite over the top things like that... go to one of those gun shows sometimes. BUt the quiet majority of Australia has better things to think about then where your mum moved here from, as long as you get along, dont piss peiple off, and can find a lil common ground. They may still make jokes about pregnant cats and wedding cakes, but they're not about to crack up laughing if we started loading people onto trains and sending em to camps, or whatever.

I think Ace's family has a tale to tell that is in keeping with MOST families I have ever had anything to do with, whether they are black,white or a tasty brown in between, been here for a hundred gens or been here for two.. it DOES see mto be the predominate way of going about things...todays "wogs" are tomorrows investment property collectors, local community figures, etc. Familiarity breeds tolerance, can be shown in terms of chemicals, sound, light, poisons, all kinds of things. It'd be hard to be genuinely racist around here these days, since we're all a pack of mongrels anyway..the only purebloods are brits, kiwis and americans and south africans that move here relatively unnoticed ;) Yes, I know "out west" "out back" in "small town australia" things differ a lil... but fuck all of our pop actually lives out there anyway, so that locals of Emerald, QLD, can just sit tight while I talk thankyeverymuch.

And if personal experience of the general population is NOT in keepinng with the "official rock solid figures" then I reckon the numbers are dodgy anyway. That aside, I reckon we can post just about anything we want to these boards, in support of our own lil opinions. We are not paid policy advisors, who the fuck needs "verifiable data" to have a bit of verbal diarrhea?

Surely going by "A rise in multiculturalism does not automatically equate to a drop in racism.", should mean that the most tolerant and embracing of nations are, somehow, those that are the most racially pure and restricted? Norway vs Britain, for example? Call me silly, but I reckon its hard to be tolerant of something you have no interaction with.

Thats just my opinion, on a public forum. No numbers. Sorry cough, though it will probably happen again sometime. Somehow though I reckon if i walked up n down the street doing a quick poll on "do you think your generation is more racially tolerant than your parents?" I think the Ace Theory will hold solid, course, i don't have any stats for the likelihood so maybe I shouldn't say THAT, either.

Off to decide if I want to lynch the pommy whinger over the road, the zipperheaded vietnamese girl next door, or the cow worrying money hoarding scotsmen on the other side or perhaps not.

VM

[apothecary]

If an asian driver cuts you off, yes, plenty of people will say "bloody asian drivers" but that doesn't mean they beleive they should be paid less for the same work, banned from living in certain areas,been a time since blackfellas werent allowed in town inside Boundary Streets outside of permitted work hours,

I respectfully disagree.

Paid less for the same work: Did you know Asian hookers cost half the price of "western" ones?

Banned from living in certain areas: http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/youre-...5685828180.html

Blackfellas not allowed in town outside of work hours? What about the illegal 7:30pm curfew placed on Blackfellas in Redfern? i.e. out after dark, expect to get harassed!

I could keep going with examples for each if you like.

Edited October 7, 2007 by apothecary

[apothecary]

Oh yeah and I just wanted to include a quote from our PM in response to peoples complaints about alcohol bans and curfews in Indigenous communities in QLD:

Mr Howard responded to the criticism saying that "staying alive was more important than civil liberties".

Very amusing, I'm sure Mr Howard would be up in arms if there was a curfew imposed on HIM!

[nothinghead]

Surely going by "A rise in multiculturalism does not automatically equate to a drop in racism.", should mean that the most tolerant and embracing of nations are, somehow, those that are the most racially pure and restricted? Norway vs Britain, for example? Call me silly, but I reckon its hard to be tolerant of something you have no interaction with.

Thats just my opinion, on a public forum. No numbers.

I'm afraid I don't understand your point here. And I don't see where I have been asking for numbers and figures? What I am suggesting is that just because racism might have become less visible than generations past does not mean it is not alive and kicking. Just because someones grandma, or whoever, uses blatently racist terms does not mean she is any more racist than the politician who chooses her/his words carefully. I think it's pretty naive to assert that based on going to the shop and hanging out with a lot of different nationalities means that racism is on the way out.

There's an intersting example in your post, itself - the word you continually choose is "tolerance" - not the noblest sentiment in my opinion. If equality between races comes down to "tolerating" difference, I think we've got a long way to go working on racism.

And on your belief that there have not been any eventuations of racism in recent years, we don't have to go back far to the Cronulla pogrom, an earlier call for a reinstatement of the White Australia Policy, One Nation, apparently racially motivated gang rapes... Need I go on?

I really don't think it's appropriate to signal the end of racism based on ethnic diversity at the local shops, I'm not suggesting that anyone needs to memorise half an ABS report before posting, just that making claims about "the way things are" need some support apart from a narrow, egocentric "that's what my life is like".

[apothecary]

And on your belief that there have not been any eventuations of racism in recent years, we don't have to go back far to the Cronulla pogrom, an earlier call for a reinstatement of the White Australia Policy, One Nation, apparently racially motivated gang rapes... Need I go on?

I'll just add the most recent one...

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22522338-2,00.html

[Sparkster]

arrr, this is interesting.

I moved from NZ to Australia three years ago, I scored 7/10 on that test, ( http://www.australiantest.com ) not that I'm a stupid person, I've avoided watching sport at all costs and didn't know the second line of the national anthem! (also, the difference between an Ostrich & an Emu in the coat of arms as they just look like giant chickens to me)

Kinda dumbfounded that knowing these things even matters, or whether he have a high court or a supreme court, I strongly doubt Americans or British moving here would guess it either!

The objective should be to prevent people from breaking the law, and these questions have no way of doing that.

I found it very rich that the www.australiantest.com site mentions before the test ""let's see if you deserve to be an Aussie! """ The word 'deserving' is pretty elitest. Frankly, I dont even think our current PM deserves to be an Aussie!!

The perception that a typical aussie is a beer drinking, sport loving, BBQ grillin, thong wearing geezer needs to die. The whole 'national identity' as an idea is quite loathesome to me, stereotypes don't to anything to encourage freedom of thought for ongoing generations, who end up materialising what they think they 'should' be.

Who cares about being a f**king aussie and all the trashy stereotypes, don't these people just need somewhere to live?

[chilli]

i have heard that if you can recognize difference of race on any level then are we not all racists ?

No, that's not racism. Being racist is discriminating against and hating people who are a different nationality/ethnicity to you. I think most people have a xenophobic tendency to some degree, whether it is innate or learned I don't know, but it is there in most people.

[chilli]

I respectfully disagree.

Paid less for the same work: Did you know Asian hookers cost half the price of "western" ones?

Banned from living in certain areas: http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/youre-...5685828180.html

Blackfellas not allowed in town outside of work hours? What about the illegal 7:30pm curfew placed on Blackfellas in Redfern? i.e. out after dark, expect to get harassed!

I could keep going with examples for each if you like.

Yeah, but he said that someone who says "bloody asian drivers" doesn't necessarily agree with those things, not that they don't exist.

My friend's wife is from the Phillipines, and he got a good laugh when they were driving and she said the slowpoke in front was probably a "bloody asian" :D

[bob-bob]

If you think we are racist go to other countries ie Japan, USA and try become a citizen.. haha

it is definitely made a lot harder then a 20 question joke of a test..

[Auntyjack]

Yeah, but he said that someone who says "bloody asian drivers" doesn't necessarily agree with those things, not that they don't exist.

My friend's wife is from the Phillipines, and he got a good laugh when they were driving and she said the slowpoke in front was probably a "bloody asian" :D

Ha haha...see racism has nothing to do with race!

[XipeTotec]

Ha haha...see racism has nothing to do with race!

maybe she cried inside

[Auntyjack]

Xipe I didn't know you were so deep...

[chilli]

maybe she cried inside

LMAO

[Vertmorpheus]

eh, tolerance, getting along, shutting up, swapping your vegemite sandwiches for sushi rolls, whatever. Word games kinda stuff. I personally tend to use tolerance as ..well..it just suits. I dont love my neighbours, ethnicity is irrelevant to it. I'd put them out if they were on fire, but thats just because I'm not a bastard. To the extent that I notice them, its because they are making noise, parking me in, by nature we tend to notice irritants more than pleasures, within the context of repetition.

So I tolerate em. If I had the cash to pay them to go away, I probably would. Then I can dig up their pool and grow corn, or something. Let my friends or family, who I DO love, live in the surrounding houses cheaply. I guess it would be luverly if I could embrace their inner charm, find endless delight in their presence, but I just don't. But I don't want anyone to go over ther and kick them shitless, burn their house down, sack them, whatever. Life is what it is. I have lived in enough different little spots up n down Australia , to have copped it and seen it (racism) from quite a few angles... I really don't have time for it, and it doesn't personally occur to me to find say a group of local aboriginal kids walking to the shops inherently threatening, it's just that the person I am walking with tenses up and then I put two n two together and think "wow, youre actually that much of a dickhead about some things". my point (to the extent that I ever have one) was really just that to say that we are as racist, or more racist, than say 25, 50, a hundred years ago... in a systemic, approved, funded, authorised way... rather than as a pack of fuckwits full of beer and bullshit beating up Indian people thinking they are lebanese, with the police then diving in to braek it up, rather than just joining in for a giggle - kind of way.. just strikes me personally as incorrect.

There will always be racist people, and those who are just hateful, petty, bitter little fearmongers that use racism as readily as they use class, religion, wahtever. But in the context of "And on your belief that there have not been any eventuations of racism in recent years"... well, I don't believe that, and if youre just going to try and stuff ideas in my mouth then why reply to me at all? surely easier to just talk to your impression of me in your head, or something. How I could personally believe something that I KNOW to be untrue (in a personal and a statistical sense)? I've been bitched at for being black on the innside and white on the outside by all n sundry, I've been ragged on for being white AND aboriginal while living in Torres Strait.. then the same when I moved to the WASP wonderland that is northern brisbane in late primary school, though then it was for having an accent and a tan and a tendency to lose my shoes. My mum grew up like a lot of people being told to tell anyone that asked that the family was Indian...anyway...pointless... you've already stuck me a box, and there I'll stay. The man that said nothing racist ever happens, haha, did i tell you about that bloke.... And " I think it's pretty naive to assert that based on going to the shop and hanging out with a lot of different nationalities means that racism is on the way out."... why naive? Would people refusing to shop at a store that had black staff member, orfirebombing anywhere that WOULDNT hire blacks, indicate greater tolerance? Or do we have to run up to any passing coloured folks and lick them, or something, to show real tolerance? Sorry...acceptance, love, mutual respect, whatever I'm meant to be calling it.

The difference if you're still reading is that in Cronulla, it was the same young useless wankers that get into trouble wherever they are (on both sides) the same kind of trash that youll find kicking people to death at schoolies, packraping anyone regardless of race etc.. its "the boys". the boys were not delivered there in well oiled trucks in an orderly fashion. The police when they did turn up tried to stop anyone gettting stuck into anyone, despite their personal feelings. The papers didnt cover it as "lebs start trouble", and then the govt didnt start following up with machinegun toting troops in your nearest westfield hunting brown people on sight. It was reported (even by quite fucked in the head papers) as "what the fuck is going on here exactly?". Same as when serbs n croats get angry at soccer n tennis, or people "riot" (yeah ok) after a highly suss death in custody.. it gets the press and the beat up that it does becuase they are RARE incidents. An interesting glitch in the general minscape we have of the land we live in. Rape is very, very common, so it rarely makes the news... running street battles between large groups of people over nothing but colour and location aren't. So they do. And anyone with any kind of sense immediately said "what a bunch of nongs, thats not how we do things here as a general rule". As for pack rapes..onceupon a not too far flung time, if you managed to grab a blackwoman or a girl and get her back to your rotting little hut, she was yours, go for it, whatever you want. Noone would kick up a fuss (in any official sense) and in social terms it was seen by many as being more like bestiality. Lil bit different now, dodgy investigations, cultural considerations and access to services aside. Pobodies Nerfect.

I wasn't aware that the Today Tonight O Meter rating of an issue depicted its actual significance, frequency, the general level of tolerance for that act within the community of those that are alleged to have done it, etc... have to read up on that one. On the other hand, I could probably find an almost endless list of cross cultural groups, fundraisers, aid groups, government programs, local projects, well intentioned members of the public and other random acts of just getting along... but who wants the good news eh? Much more interesting to think about rape and gang violence. Better ratings too ;)

We do have racist elements, opinions, systems, policies, etc.. never said we didnt. But go out tonight with a rifle and try to hunt blackfellas for sport in an open and unabashed fashion and see how far you get. Try calling the asian australian woman behind the counter at the bank a useless slope and see if she luv you long time...unlikely. More likely security will haul your arse out of there if you act up too much.

Of course the real racist mongrels have new language..don't we all? But I'm still with Aces greatgreatgrandkids on this one ;) Surely the way things are for Me, You, Anyone is worth hearing... if we're all going to live in a big, warm, global village that is.

VM