sagiXsagi

wow what a wonderful post! I cant help but think that this guilt is totally un-natural, its engraved to minds from christian religion. religions are just that in their most basic form: they take advantage of peoples awe for death, they manipulate it and make it a self-fulfilling prophecy (and propably transform all this into some kind of neurosis) on another note, I recently found this amazing "death activist" mortician, she has a youtube channel which deals with several death matters in a very positive way, with some humour thrown in... all in all, its very true that our societies "death rites" and customs in regards with death has made us more in awe, more fearful and more in embarassment in front of other peoples death. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlin_Doughty I am saying others people death, because thats what there is to fear.. Our own death is not that terrifing

Thats cool. Humanity needs more of such projects.. Political activists should experiment more with this, like anarchists. But lets be honest, such experiments are not easy.

Very cool post, Micromegas... My perception of Kali comes from an awesome book I read when pretty young, I have still very bold visuals from many of the books scenes, including descriptions of Kali sculptures. I remember she and her followers were evil. LOL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mystery_of_the_Black_Jungle I also think that micromegas post strongly relates with greek god pantheon, where we virtually have so many gods, thats there's obviously something for everyone.. This is propably something people are missing since the installation of monotheistic religions almost everywhere, and thats why westerners feel frawn to polytheistic religions, especially the polytheistic hinduism.

Hey, sorry for delay, I come here only from time to time. I have to read your post more thoroughly with more time, but for now here are some fast points: 1) you go all over the concept of consciousness, but you never bother to define it.. consciousness is a pretty "thick" and not so simple concept to grasp.. its seems only natural to think of consciousness like a "grid behind the eyes" but I feel its a very big discussion on its own . 2) there are many interesting patterns, from NDEs to very similar myths across the ancient world among unrelated civilisations. A sceptic / atheist, can only assume we visualise similar things / make up similar stories/myths because we have the same perception systems, or the same faults in our perception. Think of how tropane (datura) trips are typically identical, regardless of age country etc. Does it prove the metaphysical? no 3) "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?" of course it does!! and the sound will scare off any birds around. sound is waves traveling through the air. you dont need an observer to have sound - you only need air.. I think you are overfocusing on what you have read about the physics of the microcosmos.. Nothing from quantum physics is true in the real world.. impressive, yeah, but nothing to do with the real world... While in microcosmos the observer affects the experiment, in the real world it doesnt matter if we have an observer or not. quantum physics is about the nature of matter, which is another size of world. its not the "real" world where mammals exist and evolved. In that sense, there's no way to "be the wall" in any real sense. I do see its fascinating, but I cant understand how people justify using scientific data to project on our real life other than theist desires and existential questions.. And I also dont really understand that degree of fascination in the microcosmos of quantum physics, and not f.e. in the much more real but also fascinating microcosmos of microorganisms. 4) needless to say, claims bout magic healings of cancer, telekinisis etc I dont believe. I dont know how to respond. 5) "if you can manipulate a mind to not believe someone that they did something (brainwashing/common beliefs) whos to say you cant make a wall believe youre not there and jump right through it? " well thats easy, people can be either brainwashed / manipulated to believe something crazy, or even make it up themselves.. BUT it doesnt make it true in a physical sense... Its never true - its only true in their minds.. Conspiracy theorists, say flat-earthers really do believe what they propose.. But why?? how?? what are the mechanics of believiing in irrational things??? The base of all this is belief . Just like religion. Just like theism. just like metaphysics. if you truly believe something, then its a true story - but only in your mind.. Even millions of people believing tha same crazy shit doesnt make it true.. 6) "But do you believe earth to be conscious? " No. I said that to me it makes more sense to think of the earth like a conscious thing, than, say the universe, as we know that earth is a magnificent self-regulating system.. But in my eyes, comparing a conscious earth with a non-conscious earth , the non-conscious one seems more fascinating!! And more real.. Of course this is in part becasue I find belief in anything metaphysics philosophically and aesthetically lazy. There's a certain pride in an true atheists point of view : we never believed in non-existent stuff so our point of view is always consistent with reality. PS: you know about that?? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge do you really believe that there are people who can actively produce metaphysical events and they are all hiding??

not sure whats the question.. they are pretty hardy plants if you dont have too low temps.

Again, amazing pictures.. How are you sure that they are gerardiana, and not some of the more miniature species, like regalis, which you had shown in a previous trip from Pakistan I think (?). From what I remember from their descriptions they are not small like this, even though I havent read the literature for some time.. There's also a SAB memeber growing them, and again they dont look similar. On the other hand the presence of the animal grazing shows that the animals propably affect the shape of plants.. Hey tripsis, are you a mountaineer?? I have read and seen lots of docus about mountaineering accidents, you guys are NUTS! the best species to grow is distachya, but you wont read anywhere about that.. everyone obsesses over sinica, equisetina and gerardiana.

my plants that had it have grown huge, it doesnt seem to be an issue at all. only a small part of the plant does it, and mostly in the begining of each year..

I have 2 of them in the ground, I think they are both from the same original plant.. Both of them keep doing some variegated parts, mostly in the begining of the year, like Alice said and like the pictures show, but most of it is green.

oh, thats sad to hear, I had no idea.. I have had his "small peruvianus crest" he bred and named endorfinder for some years now.. even though I now think that's a pachanoi. RIP

acashia> I dont know if its really relevant but reading your post made remember my point about how us humans , to realise a concept, to understand, to process, to function while conceptualising stuff, so that we can "decide" what to do, we always do this by comparing.. Our intellect (and maybe physiology) is made like that. Also I have yet to reply , but a small bit about QM QM for me is all about better electronics, smaller electronics and developments in the science of materials.. I get why its important . And of course without QM technology we will never be able to leave this planet when it will be expiring.. I get why its important and fascinating... but up to there, where the practical inventions we have as a result... i completely refuse to link the physics of the microcosmos with philosophy... the way I see it, QM philosophy is really mumbo jumbo... but I will read Micromegas post properly and come back to reply at some point, had forgotten this thread for a while... but I doubt theres anything to change my mind about this..

there are few nurseries in usa that offer some plants , usually nevadensis and few nurseries in europe usually offering distachya. but australia?? maybe you should try your luck in the trade section, make a thread asking for a plant. otherwise, you should get good seed. I usually have some seed. PM me all in all distachya is the easiest to grow and propagate because fast and grow suckers all the time.. sinica is much slower

dont take it personally mate.. talking to a strong atheist about your theism is pretty brave so kudos to you. its just an arguement between our belief systems. ok let me try to get into your thing conscious universe: the concept of the universe, lets take the standard expanding model is definately impressive. the physics in it are different, the sizes are different... how ever we tend to know more about it, it doesnt get less mysterious.. but its another scale. and another timeline. our REAL world here on earth is not less impressive! but its directly linked to us, our evolution, our scale, our timeline from where I am looking it would be much easier to accept that the earth is a conscious organism, than with the universe.. Earth has tons of magic things about it.. carbon circle, water circle, earth crust, crystals, minerals, its fucking wild! and the whole timeline, and direct or indircet relations are tangible. PS: that must not what you were talking about, but cave prints plus I am not sure if you know about the so called fermi paradox.. I personally dont find it that paradox that we havent met aliens, and I tend to believe that the notion of us being the only that much evolved beings in the conceivable universe is not that wild. you might find interesting the several theories about parallel universes proposed in cosmology. and then we have , quantum physics and microcosmos... this is the new trend in neo-theism... I get it.. you see the physics on microcosmos and you are like what??? but again different scale, different bahaviour, different time-line, when matter becomes waves . Sure if you take quantum physics and you project them to real life, you can image someone passing through a wall.. but the physics of microcosmos apply only to the microcosmos.. To sum up, I am a strong atheist, but if I were into a belief system where some higher being or conscious entity would be, man that would definately be earth... the rest of the universe seems cold and uninhabited. the microcosmos, well its not all that interesting to me.. but how this 4 billion year old planet has such a self sutaining system to the point we evolved, thats wow, thats the magic for me ... in that sense I feel closer to pagans and what not than to any other religious system. PS: say more about the kid in chine that could pass through a wall.. lets say he did it.. what does this prove? how did he do it?? and why no camera has ever recorded something like that without experts of videoediting debunk it?? by the way, this is an awesome youtube channel of a dude creating awesome entertaining videos debunking supernatural vides

I saw a really bad meme about bad trips on some other media and was inspired to create some "right' ones . feel free to comment, after all these are only memes portraying my opinions and objections with the psychedelic scope

following....

^^ looks like distachya, but dont take my word for it. in any case, seems like a super strong plant.

maybe it went fast to nowehere because your theism is so specific! if reality is a concept, lets see people walking though a wall PS: "physicists now believe everything in this physical universe is actually consciousness " NO THEY DONT!

oh boy! I am not shying away, I will definately do this another time. one point only: I meant "wrong" in the sense that all this is a "no -argument" for me. logical fallacy or whatever they call these things... I mean that this whole arguement is totally irational and incosistent with scientific thought. which is to be expected as its a theistic arguement.. thats why theists love QM .. because as their old gods seemed to slowly die, there comes QM which seems to bring new arguements about god TBC

sorry to ask for a 2nd time. for what stages of the disease are you talking about??? sounds as if you are talking about the last stages , 4 and 5, where there's little movement.

Hey thanks for all the comments . Its going to be helpful to consider all these now, since my father is only now getting worse (maybe well into stage 2 now) . I have read up a bit more on the subject. Stimulants at recreational doses seem to cause deficit afterwards.. There's no evidence I could find this could work long term. In any case I was not thinking about stimulant doses, but rather smaller , tonic doses... But I have left that way of thought for now, since I have not been at all convinced that could really help and also not convinced there is not danger involved. I think the most helping aid should be CBT.. yep its legal in greece now (since recently) . I think it would be the easiest and safest to use.. read many nice things about that. then you got henbane, which should be tricky to normalise and use but has a LONG history of helping relieving symptoms and I feel really great with those plants, I can try first etc... the easiest and safest way would be to smoke joints, and my dad doesnt smoke, so there's that.. also there is banisteriopsis material, which is also supposed to be able to help, was supposed to replace tropane alkaloids back in the day, but didnt raise to the promise... Supposedly lots better than Peganum, but then again, the MAOI in there should make it pretty complicated, and also there doesnt seem to be lots of modern use and reports.. Iboga was proposed to me by some cool cat, but I am still hesitant, I was under the impression that iboga is a pretty toxic and hard to dose material, but I really dont know much. There is a good chance I will get to speak with a neurologist / psychiatrist friend of my father before he sees his regular neurologist doc, so I intend to talk about all these.. he is a nice dude, but I dont think he likes psychoactives very much... both his kids had drug induced mental problems in the past , so...... we will see.... But I have talked to my mother about supplementary action like CBT and she is positive... But as you say, Darklight, maybe the harder part would be to find a sympathetic doc for anything more complicated than CBT... Also pride is a thing, yeah.. and also the denial (on my mothers part) of the whole thing... I think that soon (well I hope not so soon) we are going to be worrying about falls so sooner or later we should be taking a walking stick.. the floatation device thing is a good suggestion... Again, thanks a lot

one off dose??

My father is such a great and sweet guy. My mom was always more dominant I am 41 btw , lol so doctor has been saying he going well, despite the tremor he saiod he was not worrying about my father has started to seem hesitant to go to swim, he seems to be having a harder time to navigate and move his limpbs in water... I might seem like an idiot to be asking but I have thought about it a long time what would khat or ephedra do for a person like my dad?? would they hit and then deplicit the dopamine? could they both enhance and slow the circle???? my gut says this might imporove my dad, but then again, will this be good long term??

distachya . the fruits are much juicier and sweeter and pleasant from foeminea

Thank for your kind words. I think its a really awesome discussion, and its kind of funny, considering the thread title.. Like you wrote in some other thread, facebook is not good for such discussions, but forums definately are. Some quick thoughts.... maybe its human inability to preceive it or grasp it on the whole, that results in so many different and wrong religious/theist/spiritual models. Wrong in that its never universal and differs vastly from person to person and from culture to culture. Or maybe we have to "let go" to hope we could perceive it some day. RE: Quantum mechanics + stuff. you additional arguements about how causality changes dont matter at all. Its still wrong. Its still about microcosmos . Its not so weird microcosmos functions in a totally different way that we cannot understand, hence the tons of mathematics... I cant help that all this stuff are coming from people that are pissed off at science and found a new way to challenge atheistic , rationalistic, materialistic philosophies that are on the rise in the modern world .. But I dont find anything worth of depunking there, in the same reason I wont go into details in the bible to prove to a theist that there is no god. Philosophically and politicaly, these kind of neo-theists are my enemies. Maybe more so than the old-skool theists and preachers. You parallel of myth and science (Ernst Cassirer quote) , is very interesting, as you put it. I will think a bit more on that. Also interesting, is what you call ""transcendental loop" ciao for now... (will propably revisit these points)

well I dont know what discord is, but from my FB experience, the best type of groups are private groups specialised in one subject, with relatively few (can be as few as 20 or 30, or even 8-10 people) but active members . I agree with northerner that SAB has somewhat that appeal, in a slower time line. Like he said, most visit once a month or rarer. Its pretty cool that is still alive though if its a chat - space, I am in

chiloensis sprouts