Torsten Posted January 15, 2006 Just wanted to let everyone know that the forums are currently set up in a way so that if anything happens to Daniel and myself the hosting will continue to be paid out of our paypal account. It's about $50/month to keep things alive. Hint: if you read our obituaries in the paper then it might be a good idea to pass the hat around to make sure $50 is deposited asap. I do keep a little bit of money in paypal at all times, but I hate paypal, so I keep my balance as low as practicable. ([email protected]) We are also making provision in our wills so that the administration of the forums will be passed onto people we trust to keep them going. We realise that communities regularly crash when people die, go to jail or simply lose interest. The disastrous loss of SPF last year and the continuing malaise at EA was what rammed this home for us and we've made provision since then, however we feel they need to be more public in case our back up plans fall through too. The forums are on a separate domain to the shop, so there will be no problems in case of challenges to any wills (challenges usually ony aim at things of monetary value). Wills would be executed within a month or so of death, so that eventuality really won't cause a lot of transition problems. More complicated would be a situation where both Daniel and I were incapacitated for an extended period (eg coma). In such a case the forums would simply have to keep running by themselves for a little while - hence this notice that they run off the paypal account. No, we are not dying, don't intend to start skydiving or doing anything else that will dramatically increase the chances of expiry. I just want to make sure that this excellent community and vast database of information doesn't just disappear because of some unfortunate and unforseeable event that affects only Daniel and myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted January 16, 2006 T the place wouldn't be the same without you! For a minute there I thought you guys were considering Iboga treatment Seriously though very smart and thanks for making this proviso..plenty of peeps here would chip in if in fact some disastorous were to happen (touch wood) Its' our own little place in cyberspace and defend it we will. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 16, 2006 I am sure there are plenty of people who would keep this place running. From the technical side to the financial aspect, I have no doubt there will be no shortage of volunteers. It is this very fact that the place can and should happily run without us that requires us to make provisions for an eventuality where we might not be around. While we are generally pretty safe, we don't wrap ourselves in cotton wool. We intend to travel to some rough places in the next few years and yes, I will be doing ibogaine again hopefully in 4 or 5 months in one of those unsafe places Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gollum Posted January 16, 2006 Hi Torsten Good idea with the wills and all. I would hate to hear of something lifethreatening happening to anyone who runs or uses this forum. It would be dreadful to lose you guys, and site like this, it is such a wealth of information and from what i can tell a lot of friendships have been formed here. This place brings people with similar interests together. I would happily pay the $50 myself if something serious occured to stop this site from shutting down. Though i know there would be plenty of other people just as willing as i to do the same thing. With the iboga treatment, I watched the doco on sbs the other week and was really interested in its use as an initiation into the Bwiti religion. Do you plan on travelling to this part of Africa? You say you are probably going to do it "again"? How did you find the experience thie first time? Was it life changing? Did you have visions of people that you had hurt in the past? I am very interested. I think i recall the french guy that was Bruce Perry's guide saying that it was not something you would want to do anytime soon. It mustn't be too bad if you want to do it again. Either that or it was so insightful that it must be done again. Anyway hope your travels are safe and that you find everything you are looking for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 17, 2006 With the iboga treatment, I watched the doco on sbs the other week and was really interested in its use as an initiation into the Bwiti religion. Do you plan on travelling to this part of Africa? Yes. You say you are probably going to do it "again"? How did you find the experience thie first time? Was it life changing? Did you have visions of people that you had hurt in the past? It is not a negative trip, so it is not just about seeing people you hurt, but rather about where you fit into the social web around you and what impacts you have on others. It is very much like a community assessment, so if you have done bad in your community then one would expect a lot of criticism during the trip. Iboga makes you see the interconnections between people and how the social fabric works. For many this also includes visions of ancestors - who we have a genetic responsibility to. The experience is extremely challenging in a physical sense. It wasn't very challenging in a mental sense for me at the time as I was spending a lot of time in psychedelic space anyway. I expect that side of things to be much more difficult this time. It mustn't be too bad if you want to do it again. Either that or it was so insightful that it must be done again. If you are doing it because you want to break an addiction then you would probably never want to do it again. If you are doing it because you like exploring the mind, then the lure of its possibilities is far greater than the horrendous side effects Anyway hope your travels are safe and that you find everything you are looking for. Not looking for anything this time really. I am trying to play a little bit of anthropological catch up. ie, I've done all the drugs, but not many of the rituals, so over the nexy few years I want to travel to the respective places and join into the ritual itself. Not that I am big on rituals, but that's exactly the point - maybe I am missing something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Qhorakuna tantani Posted January 17, 2006 Not that I am big on rituals, but that's exactly the point - maybe I am missing something. It would give you the 'original' headset and mental state so to speak. Like you said, there may be more to gain from using it the traditional way, fully immersing yourself in everything. Please write a report on it for us if you get the time, unless the experience is too personal to share Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benzito Posted January 17, 2006 Torsten, firstly, thankyou for setting up these provisions. It is terrible when a whole community ends up being 'owned' by someone, because all it takes is for them to lose interest, as you said, and the community collapses. I really appreciate how selfless you are in your endeavours to further the ethnobotany community. On the kind of 'side topic', Iboga, and rituals. I would have to say I agree with you aswell, rituals don't hold the power for me that they obviously do for other people. I sometimes wonder if I'm just missing something, or maybe I'm quite simply not as open to suggestion as others. There would have to be one thing said about tribal rituals; If you are not a member of the tribe, you will never gain the same things from the ritual that the tribespeople do. We have so many more external influences; social, religious, political, visual, auditory, inter-personal, etc. Our experience of a 'trip' will never be the same as that of someone living in a closed environment like that. If the only other people in your world are the other members of your tribe, you would quite easily enter into a 'collective consciousness'. I can see a tribal up-bringing lending itself to group hallucination very well. I think our rituals are different, due to our different culture, and maybe we need to accept that. Only a few months ago Torsten, you had the realisation that your MDMA use back in your previous life had actually all been based on ritual. The ritual of the rave. I think rituals hold secret power, but only due to their hidden meanings. If you are not part of the original culture, the ritual will probably hold alot less power for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 18, 2006 Only a few months ago Torsten, you had the realisation that your MDMA use back in your previous life had actually all been based on ritual. The ritual of the rave.I think rituals hold secret power, but only due to their hidden meanings. If you are not part of the original culture, the ritual will probably hold alot less power for you. For quite a few years I've stated that feathers and rattles don't hold much of a spell over me, but lasers and 5kW bass do. I don't mean to say that all rituals are meaningless to me, but rather that I find contemporary rituals much more engaging and relevant. It's easy to develop meaningful rituals if you take a drug on a regular basis, but with something as occasional as ibogaine there is really not much to build on. I figure taking ibogaine in my preferred setting in comparison to taking it at a Bwiti initiation is probably like the difference between taking MDMA at home in comparison to taking it at a rave. Even if the rest of the ritual has little meaning, at the very least the group setting will make a huge difference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amulte Posted January 21, 2006 (edited) T ........ PLEASE dont do that again ay. you freaked the shit out of me for a second there until i kept reading. seriously man, next time maybe start with "im not dying but....." LOL ahhh dude EDIT - Thanks heaps tho for letting us know and being nice enough to even consider including said provisions. i will gladly donate $$ IF the unfortunate situation occurs. i pray it wont! Edited January 21, 2006 by Amulte Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thelema Posted January 23, 2006 T, i will see you beyond that eboga doorway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 24, 2006 T, i will see you beyond that eboga doorway. LOL, are we related But seriously, are you playing around with it at the moment too? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
