wandjina Posted January 17, 2006 interesting macro....in the story i read, the girl purchased hers from two raves in sydney in approx 1995. The pills she took more recently had no such effects on comedown. thanks for the links Leo now, re damage to the terminals (=dendrites?)...can these regenerate, or is the damage permanent? Can the brain 're-route' around damaged areas? What could one do to repair/ameliorate said damage? In a recent issue of NS, there was an article about 'cognitive (?) reserve'....research has shown that some people without symptoms of Alzheimers or other degnerative brain diseases, are revealed at autopsy to have brains riddled with plaques....'swiss cheese'. Other individuals with the same degree of deterioration could hardly function, yet those with larger 'cognitive reserves' (which appears to correlate especially with education...keeping the mind active) dont lose their marbles, so to speak. Could the damage caused by taking E be more noticable in those with lower 'cognitive reserves'...i.e. could the damage be roughly equal relative to freq./dose in everyone....but those with more robust 'cognitive reserves' are able to bypass physical/biological damage and retain normal mental function (however one defines normal). This would suggest a correlation with T's earlier discussion of neurotransmitter reserves. Perhaps if one was to exercise the mind ('if you don't use it you lose it'?) in tandem with cardiovascular health and diet (also linked to 'cognitive reserve') one could avoid adverse consequences of E. Well, that's a bit of a no-brainer, isn't it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
occidentalis Posted January 18, 2006 Perhaps if one was to exercise the mind ('if you don't use it you lose it'?) in tandem with cardiovascular health and diet (also linked to 'cognitive reserve') one could avoid adverse consequences of E. Do you mean long term neural damage or the short term effects such as bad comedowns etc when you say 'adverse consequences'? Because the short term consequences would be fairly easy to test - get people who used mdma at times when they were engaged in regular mental exercise and compare their experiences to those who weren't. My brief (~ 6 months) flirtation with regular pill use ended largely because of negative effects - scattered, zombiefied comedowns and wendesday blues as described well above. Still makes me shudder to remember. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted January 18, 2006 In any case, what could one do to alleviate and post-E blergyness? since discovering the recuperative powers of psilly things ive never had blergyness again. i used to predose of 5htp, B6, zinc, tyrosine and assorted neuros but 1g or more (subthreshhold is plenty but u can go as high as u like) of the other on the tail end of the pill was far more effective. -elimination of the wrung out feeling at the end of a hard night. when the euphoria is gone and you get a little selfish -elimination of being stuck on linear thoughts, some pretty patterns and colours to distract -elimination of wednesday blues its important not to combine at the same time. or else you may get more than u bargained for as there is marked potentiation however when taken at the tail end this is minor and the other merely supplements the pill and cushions the fall ive been saying it for years but never heard feedback. if at first you dont suceed fiddle with timing and dosage im confident youll hit a sweetspot from what T says sounds like i need more dopamine. I was wondering why all my pills in the last year have seemed so smacky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted January 18, 2006 looks like these guys stumbled on similar findings also http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=13876 last paragraph anyway in case it hasnt been said dont mix amphetamine with E imagine E with no euphoria transpersonal empathy, introspection - all that but imagine that with no high its gritty and not fun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
findbuddha Posted January 18, 2006 What's the best source for tyrosine supplements? I did a quick search but didn't find any references to its purchase. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 18, 2006 you can get Nature's Own l-tyrosine in almost any chemist these days. It comes in 500mg tabs. SAB also sells small containers of the powder, but these are not very economical. We will hopefully offer it in larger containers soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spiders Posted January 19, 2006 well im not sure where i fit into this because ive taken many e's and never really had any adverse effects at all - its always usually pleasant with very little come down. A few times ive had some adverse sympathetic nervous system activity (adrenal hyperactivity) but nothing as bad as I would get from mushrooms or acid. I never get a come down - i go to sleep fine and dont get tuesday/wednesday blues. The only thing ive noticed is that i have trouble putting sentences together the next few days sometimes and get rather pleasant hot flushes. I think the last time i did some pills I over did things considerably and was falling over and all this weird shit - i couldnt see properly either. A friend suggested the possibility of K being the cause but im not sure. I dont remember shite but remember i was acting rather strangely over at Ferret's place. My lady friend has had K numerous times and said that it was possible that there was some K in the pills we munched. I think its like anything - you get to know what to expect and how to deal with it. But if you want a pure hellish 16 hour come down where you feel like your eyes are looking out of your head and that you've poisoned yourself try 2c-t-2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
findbuddha Posted January 20, 2006 you can get Nature's Own l-tyrosine in almost any chemist these days. It comes in 500mg tabs.SAB also sells small containers of the powder, but these are not very economical. We will hopefully offer it in larger containers soon. Thankyou A lot of great info in this thread. Just to add my experience, the only time I've ever had a bad comedown as such was when I (quite stupidly) double dropped - and it was like my brain hit a brick wall. Every other time it's been fine.... I find dancing through the end of it extends everything nicely and I'm left with a pleasant afterglow for hours. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apothecary Posted January 21, 2006 Mate picked me up from the airport last night and took me pubbing. I had left a little round thing for him to amuse himself with while I was gone, very good one, so he only had half of it. He said it didn't do anything to him! It's happened before too, he has half and gets nothing, and if he he has whole it's almost too much. It definitely wasn't a matter of waiting for it to kick in, he had it at 9pm and went to bed at 2am with no effects whatsoever. Any ideas? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 22, 2006 'Kicking in' often isn't just a matter of time, but a matter of metabolism. I've had times where 3 hours after popping the pill I am still waiting. This seems to be especially prevalent in winter. I've noticed that having some sugar with your pill, and/or a warm beverage really helps to get things moving reliably. I am not sure if it is related to stomach activity or to the metabolism, but I presume the latter. A delayed pill like that often comes on really hard and strong when it finally does happen, but not always. Before I knew how to manipulate the onset time I often ended up going home and to sleep. In fact, the time I worked it out what was going on Daniel and I were in Melbourne during winter at a rave at the docks. We both dropped the first at 11, second at 12.30 and I did a third at 2am. We left the party at about 2.45 and neither of us had had any effect even though these were pills we had taken several times before (ie same batch, not just same logo). When we got to the hotel room still with no effects and fully intending on going to sleep, I had a hot shower and nearly collapsed as it came on so hard. Daniel's still hadn't come on. We still hadn't twigged what was going on, so about 30 mins later he then had a hot shower too and the same thing happened to him. We were too trashed to get back to the party, but had fun anyway The next day we brainstormed to try and work out what went wrong. We'd heard of this happening to other people, but never took any notice. It hadn't happened to us in Melbourne to that degree before either, so we were a bit puzzled. In the end we concluded that the cold (especially the effect this has on the muscles of the extremeties) prevented the start of the effect. It was the thorough warming of these body parts that triggered an instant start. We also worked out that taking some drugs (or even alcohol) before getting cold would ensure any further drugs would kick in timely (ie take half a pill before you leave the comfort of your cosy home, or even before having that shower before going out). The reason why i think it is metabolism related is that the eventual start is far too quick and seems to be an escalation or cascade effect. The increase in effect is certainly not linear with even the fastest possible absorption rate (I am talking less than 10 minutes to full peak usually). I have observed this in several individuals, but by no means all. People in their hometown climate are much less likely to encounter it than people traveling to cooler climates than their own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wandjina Posted January 24, 2006 more interesting material... Another question: what effect would SSRIs (say, sertraline 'zoloft') have on E? Would duration of 'medication' (i.e. how long someone has been on SSRIs) make a difference to any interaction? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mescalito Posted January 24, 2006 I figured everyone knew about the hot shower method,works with lbm's too. Sertraline has a 26hr half-life so would take around 6 days to clear the system.Being an SSRI it would possibly lessen the effects as with shrooms. http://www.crazymeds.org/ has some interesting info on A/D's and other brain meds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indigo264nm Posted January 24, 2006 SSRI's interact with E by making it not work... just gives a bit of empty stimulation apparantly without desirable effects. Tricyclics and tetracyclics are fine though, only a very mild decrease in effects. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted January 24, 2006 I figured everyone knew about the hot shower method,works with lbm's too. Yes, we were well aware that showers really get an e going, but what we didn't know was that the effect could be stalled for several hours by the cold, and then instantly turned on all at once by the hot shower all that time later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted January 24, 2006 hidiho everybody... Foaf read this thread and wanted to add... He's only tried e for the first time 3 years ago or so and immediately took a liking to it... he started off with small doses like 50 mg or so and had these a few times... they were mild but he liked it... he continued this behaviour until recently... i.e. taking less than 100mg-doses rather than more... it would probably true to say that he never had more than 100 mg in one dose and no he didn't top up during the experience.... well just recently he was given a capsule which was supposedly 100mg but turned out later to have been 150mg... however this was his best e-experience ever... he didn't know that it could be as good like that... ie while walking through beautiful natural environment he came to a table and chairs, set up by friends, outdoors.... the friends had lit 5 candles and put them on various different spots of the furniture.... the light of the candles swelled up to massive blotches of energy... he stood and stared and loooking at these candle lights and totally loved them... empathogen or something like that it's called right? Anyhu, it was his best and most intense e-experience ever... perhaps it's best not to have it often, like say every weekend which is too much according to most chemists... FOAF doesn't argue either way since he's not competent... however, having it like once a month but then in a good dose like those 150 mikes seems to be the go! (btw the e was followed by some cubensis which made for the strongest experience in along time. Strongest and most positive! No fear at all.... )(he sometimes gets scared on shrooms, but not that time...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted January 24, 2006 anodyne once posted at the mdma antidote thread that a cold shower comes handy to reverse and slow down the comming on, of a strong experience. i don't know why mixing mdma and speed has to be avoided, however thanks to inexperience i can say that it feels like beeing pushed onto the edge, just a bit stronger and you would loose it... fear and phobic... ahh looking only at beautyfull things and people just makes it bearable. one second panic, what if i loose my mind? next second, ohh i feel all my anxietys have dissapeared, i want to fxxk you all. i am too hot, panic there are no showers at the bus terminal. little voice in the head says, chill out the aircon will help, don't move much, take it easy. has to urinate 5 times in one hour... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indigo264nm Posted January 24, 2006 MDMA + Speed = DANCE DANCE DANCE DANCE DANCE!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cyjack Posted January 30, 2006 Now that I recall, a FOAF had strong clear hallucinations on two helpings of dark pink e's. Since the chemical is not normally hallucinogenic, could it be that she had come close to the toxic dose? (ld50) Can someone suggest what this 'toxic dose' is? Cheers- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
occidentalis Posted January 30, 2006 Now that I recall, a FOAF had strong clear hallucinations on two helpings of dark pink e's. Since the chemical is not normally hallucinogenic, could it be that she had come close to the toxic dose? (ld50) Can someone suggest what this 'toxic dose' is? Cheers- MDA is said to be more visually active than MDMA, is similarly potent, and is often found as an adulterant or primary ingredient in street market pills. Erowid states toxicities for MDMA as: LD50 (mice) 97 mg/kg i.p. LD50 (rats) 49 mg/kg i.p. LD50 (guinea pigs) 98 mg/kg i.p. http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_chemistry.shtml and a usual recreational dose for humans is 50-200 mg, so assuming the human LD50 is anywhere close to those of experimental animals, you would have to consume around a pill per kilo of body weight. Toxicity and chronic damage could start at a much lower dose though, so one wouldn't want to test the theory. My guess is that the hallucinations were caused by another drug in the pill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cyjack Posted January 30, 2006 My guess is that the hallucinations were caused by another drug in the pill. That might explain why the experience has been difficult to duplicate - or so I have heard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted February 4, 2006 I had clear open eye hallucinations and a 7 hour orgasmic peak on 150mg mocoblemide and 120mg MDA silly i know but fuck what a rush the hallucinations were distinctive. weblike geometric angular. what i have since classified under the provisional name 'serotonin matrices' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
