Zeolite interfering with MAOIs?

[bonecud_56]

Hey there

Curious to learn if anyone has heard of zeolite taken as a health supplement interfering or reacting with MAOIs?

A mate recently had took some sub's with syrian rue tea half an hour prior and got pretty crook in the guts, to the point of vomiting. On another occasion he smoked some changa and also felt sick in the stomach later that night. He's not felt sick on changa before in a half a dozen or so experiences. 

Any feedback would be very much appreciated

Cheers

[Cubism]

Hi bonecud. 

 

Never heard of this before so had a bit of a Google on what people use it for,

and a quick look at some of the literature. So saying that, take everything below with a grain of salt, as I clearly don't know much about it. 

 

What are you planning on using it for? The main thing I see is heavy metal detox? As a supplement like that it seems pretty dodgy. Maybe not harmful, but unlikely to be of any benefit. There's very little chance the average person has anywhere near enough heavy metals in their system to warrant a detox in any case. And to be honest, that applies to any form of detox, you're just wasting your time and cash. Of course there's the exceptions, such as naltrexone for opiate addiction, and things of that nature. 

 

Most supplements are really a complete waste of money from a therapeutic point of view. But there's no shortage of people that would totally disagree with that, so whatever floats your boat I guess. 

 

From a pharmacology point of view it seems quite promising as a scaffold for delivering other drugs, so maybe that's what your interested in? But that would mean it's already in the scaffold, so most likely real medicine right? So then as far as MAOIs, next questions would be what is the other drug, does it even have use of zeolite as a scaffold, and how and why? 

 

If you or your friend are on MAOIs, I wouldn't be taking anything your unsure of. Best bet would be to ask your/their doctor. Certainly don't listen to me for medical advice, or anyone else online. That's what doctors are for after all. 

 

And you know the old saying, alternative medicine that works is called medicine, not alternative medicine. 

 

If you are happy to say why you/they want to take it it would help I guess. But maybe that's personal so none of my business. 

 

I'd just finish with if MAOIs are working for you/them then why fuck with it? There's more important things than tripping or whatever else (and especially not some detox supplements). But these are the ramblings of someone who didn't even know you could take zeolite half an hour ago, so as I said at the start, take it all with a grain of salt, I could be entirely wrong. 

 

Am interested to see what anyone else has to say about it though. 

[fyzygy]

I use Zeolite in the garden. I believe it's an engineered stone product. Cactus plants seem to love it. My understanding is that nutrients etc. bind to the zeolite somehow, reducing the need for fertilisers. I have never tried taking it myself.

Installers of artificial turf use zeolite crystals as an odour-absorbent -- ammonia from pet urine binds to the zeolite, eliminating smell. I guess human detox might work on a similar principle.

 

 

[Strontium Dawg]

Sounds like the rue tea is causing the issues, not zeolite. 

[tripsis]

On 26/04/2021 at 8:00 PM, Cubism said:

Hi bonecud. 

 

Never heard of this before so had a bit of a Google on what people use it for,

and a quick look at some of the literature. So saying that, take everything below with a grain of salt, as I clearly don't know much about it. 

 

What are you planning on using it for? The main thing I see is heavy metal detox? As a supplement like that it seems pretty dodgy. Maybe not harmful, but unlikely to be of any benefit. There's very little chance the average person has anywhere near enough heavy metals in their system to warrant a detox in any case. And to be honest, that applies to any form of detox, you're just wasting your time and cash. Of course there's the exceptions, such as naltrexone for opiate addiction, and things of that nature. 

 

Most supplements are really a complete waste of money from a therapeutic point of view. But there's no shortage of people that would totally disagree with that, so whatever floats your boat I guess. 

 

From a pharmacology point of view it seems quite promising as a scaffold for delivering other drugs, so maybe that's what your interested in? But that would mean it's already in the scaffold, so most likely real medicine right? So then as far as MAOIs, next questions would be what is the other drug, does it even have use of zeolite as a scaffold, and how and why? 

 

If you or your friend are on MAOIs, I wouldn't be taking anything your unsure of. Best bet would be to ask your/their doctor. Certainly don't listen to me for medical advice, or anyone else online. That's what doctors are for after all. 

 

And you know the old saying, alternative medicine that works is called medicine, not alternative medicine. 

 

If you are happy to say why you/they want to take it it would help I guess. But maybe that's personal so none of my business. 

 

I'd just finish with if MAOIs are working for you/them then why fuck with it? There's more important things than tripping or whatever else (and especially not some detox supplements). But these are the ramblings of someone who didn't even know you could take zeolite half an hour ago, so as I said at the start, take it all with a grain of salt, I could be entirely wrong. 

 

Am interested to see what anyone else has to say about it though. 

 

Well said, I couldn't have put it better myself.

[bonecud_56]

On 26/04/2021 at 8:00 PM, Cubism said:

Hi bonecud. 

 

Never heard of this before so had a bit of a Google on what people use it for,

and a quick look at some of the literature. So saying that, take everything below with a grain of salt, as I clearly don't know much about it. 

 

What are you planning on using it for? The main thing I see is heavy metal detox? As a supplement like that it seems pretty dodgy. Maybe not harmful, but unlikely to be of any benefit. There's very little chance the average person has anywhere near enough heavy metals in their system to warrant a detox in any case. And to be honest, that applies to any form of detox, you're just wasting your time and cash. Of course there's the exceptions, such as naltrexone for opiate addiction, and things of that nature. 

 

Most supplements are really a complete waste of money from a therapeutic point of view. But there's no shortage of people that would totally disagree with that, so whatever floats your boat I guess. 

 

From a pharmacology point of view it seems quite promising as a scaffold for delivering other drugs, so maybe that's what your interested in? But that would mean it's already in the scaffold, so most likely real medicine right? So then as far as MAOIs, next questions would be what is the other drug, does it even have use of zeolite as a scaffold, and how and why? 

 

If you or your friend are on MAOIs, I wouldn't be taking anything your unsure of. Best bet would be to ask your/their doctor. Certainly don't listen to me for medical advice, or anyone else online. That's what doctors are for after all. 

 

And you know the old saying, alternative medicine that works is called medicine, not alternative medicine. 

 

If you are happy to say why you/they want to take it it would help I guess. But maybe that's personal so none of my business. 

 

I'd just finish with if MAOIs are working for you/them then why fuck with it? There's more important things than tripping or whatever else (and especially not some detox supplements). But these are the ramblings of someone who didn't even know you could take zeolite half an hour ago, so as I said at the start, take it all with a grain of salt, I could be entirely wrong. 

 

Am interested to see what anyone else has to say about it though. 

Cheers man. Yeah I use zeolite in my cactus pots and garden too. And that’s what I told him, it’s there to absorb minerals in the soil, so I guess the heavy metal detox is the reason why peeps use as a health supplement. He reckons that the only thing that was different between normal changa missions and the one that made him sick. And the zeolite was there for the rue/subs journey too, when he was quite ill, so he’s assuming that zeolite was a factor there too

[bonecud_56]

On 27/04/2021 at 11:08 AM, Glaukus said:

Sounds like the rue tea is causing the issues, not zeolite. 

Cheers man, do you think zeolite could have affected his magnesium levels? And if that could play a part in his illness?

[bonecud_56]

On 27/04/2021 at 4:06 AM, fyzygy said:

I use Zeolite in the garden. I believe it's an engineered stone product. Cactus plants seem to love it. My understanding is that nutrients etc. bind to the zeolite somehow, reducing the need for fertilisers. I have never tried taking it myself.

Installers of artificial turf use zeolite crystals as an odour-absorbent -- ammonia from pet urine binds to the zeolite, eliminating smell. I guess human detox might work on a similar principle.

 

 

I guess so too, kinda makes sense...binds to things you want to expel. Kinda like bentonite clay consumption 

[Cubism]

Good luck with it all mate. Hope he gets the answers he's looking for. 

[fyzygy]

This is about the most information on zeolite I've come across to date ... from an eBay listing.

 

NATURAL AUSTRALIAN ZEOLITE

Escott zeolite is an amazing natural mineral because of its extraordinary ability to absorb, hold, release, and exchange different chemicals, nutrients, toxins and ions according to need. Escott zeolite was formed from the glass component of volcanic ash millions of years ago. Zeolite Australia's huge 300 million year old zeolite deposit in News South Wales is unique and possess superior characteristics for a diverse range of industrial, commercial, rural and domestic applications.

The major mineral of Escott zeolite is clinoptilolite, which is a calcium, potassium, magnesium, aluminosilicate and has a cation exchange capacity (CEC) of +120 meq. /100g. Escott zeolite is unusually hard and low in sodium compared with other zeolites of the world and is therefore particularly durable and suitable for agricultural and horticultural and water filtration applications.

Escott zeolite has a unique internally porous atomic structure that provides a very open framework with a network of pores giving it a large surface area (up to 450m /g) and high porosity (up to 45%) for trapping and exchanging valuable cations, water and other molecules without any change in structure. Escott zeolite is a robust, insoluble and chemically stable natural mineral (part of a group of hydrated alumino silicates) and can be used as an organic agricultural and horticultural input. It carries a negative charge balanced by freely moving cations with positive charges. This provides an ideal trap for positive cations like nitrogen rich ammonium and potassium which are then released when demanded by plants. Escott high-quality, natural zeolite is therefor an excellent water filtration mediua and soil amendment - fertiliser carrier and can continue to function as a water and nutrient reservoir in the soil indefinitely. Escott zeolite has a particularly affinity for ammonium (N H4+), potassium (K+), calcium (Ca+) magnesium (Mg+) and trace elements which makes it particularly useful as a soil, compost and fertiliser additive to attract, retain and slowly release critical plant nutrients.

 

ZEOLITE IN AGRICULTURE

Zeolite:

• Enables better plant growth
• Improves the efficiency and value of fertiliser
• Improves water infiltration and retention 
• Improves yield
• Retains nutrients for use by plants
• Improves long term soil quality
• Reduces loss of nutrients in soil

Applying zeolite to the soil can improve its ability to hold nutrients and water

Zeolite is a natural super porous mineral (part of a group of hydrated alumino silicates). It carries a negative charge balanced by freely moving cations with positive charges. this provides an ideal trap for positive cations like nitrogen rich ammonium and potassium which are then released when demanded by plants.

Zeolites have a very open framework with a network of pores giving it a large surface area for trapping  and exchanging valuable nutrients.

More efficient fertiliser use

With the current high price of ammonium fertilisers zeolite can be used to extend their efficiency and performance. Blending fertiliser with zeolite can produce the same yield from less fertiliser applied because of the reduction of volatolization and leaching losses. It is particularly suitable for banding under drip irrigation planting where it will assist water infiltration, distribution and retention. When fertigation is practiced it will actively hold the nutrients in the rootzone.

More efficient water use

Zeolite assists water infiltration and retention in the soil due to its very porous properties and the capillary suction it exerts. Acting as a natural wetting agent, it is an excellent amendment for non wetting sands and to assit water distribution through soils.

The role of zeolite

Zeolite can hold nutrients in the root zone for plants to use when required. This leads to more efficient use of N and K fertilisers - either less fertiliser for the same yield or the same amount of fertiliser lasting longer and producing higher yields.

An added benefit of zeolite application is that unlike other soil amendments (gypsum and lime) it does not break down over time but remains in the soil to help improve nutrient and water retention permanently. With subsequent applications the zeolite will further improve the soil's ability to retain nutrients and produce improved yields.

And zeolite is not acidic. In fact it is marginally alkaline and its use with fertilisers can help buffer soil pH levels thus reducing the need for lime applications.

 

POTTING MIXES & COMPOSTS

An open mix with high air porosity and good drainage is important to stimulate root growth and prevent many root diseases but it also leads to rapid leaching of nutrients away from the root zones of plants. Escott Zeolite prevents this by attracting and holding the nutrients preventing them washing through the container. The typical approach to growing crops has been to apply high rates of fertiliser to overcome the losses due to leaching. This is both expensive and inefficient as well as environmentally damaging in terms of high nutrient run off.

Use of Escott Zeolite will soak up excess ammonium in mixes often released under hot conditions, preventing root burning. Escott Zeolite is not effected by temperature and buffers the dumping of nutrients by polymer coated fertilisers under hot conditions. And Escott Zeolite is not acidic. In fact it is marginally alkaline and its use with fertilisers can help buffer soil pH levels thus reducing the need for lime applications.

Zeolite carries a negative ionic charge which naturally attracts positive charged cations like Ammonium, Potassium, Magnesium and Calcium. The open crystalline structure of zeolite has many storage sites for these ions which hold naturally through a loose chemical bond. These fertiliser ions are available to plants. Zeolite has a very high cation exchange capacity and thus increases the mixes ability to hold and release nutrients. As cations are water soluble they escape from mixes by leaching.

You get better value from your fertiliser dollar, improved plant growth and reduce the nutrient load in your runoff and collected water, reducing the E.C. levels of your water storages. 

Research

Initial trial work into horticulture commenced in 1988 and was conducted by the University of New England and carried out by the Department of Agronomy & Soil Science. Test planting of Lettuce and the flowering plant Reseda odorata into potting mixes at 8% by weight and Uralla (sandy granitic) soil

Conclusions:
The results of the trials using Escott zeolite from Zeolite Australia were significant. 

• Escott Zeolite addition produced considerable increases in plant growth

• Escott Zeolite reduces Nitrogen toxicity in early plant growth.

• Zeolite has the ability to retain nitrogen in the absorbed (NH4+) form against leaching

• Escott Zeolite improves the uptake of Nitrogen in plants and improves fertilizer utilization

• Escott Zeolite did not increase residual nitrogen in the mix but improved uptake by plants by 175% in Potting mix 

Used by Australia's Leading Potting Mix Manufacturers

Escott Zeolite is used by many leading potting mix manufacturers for inclusion in the bark composting process and in finished growing medias to commercial growers, where its nutrient retention and ammonium buffering provide nutrient efficiency and ammonium safety. It also assists in the even distribution of water through mixes and increases the capillary uptake of water in capillary matt and ebb & flow irrigation systems.

Zeolite is also used in greenwaste recycling where it assists in even moisture and nutrient retention through composting windrows, reducing composting times and producing a less odourous, more consistent final compost.

Rates of Inclusion

1% of mix volume = 10 Kg per M³
2.5% of mix volume = 25 Kg per M³
5% of mix volume = 50 Kg per M³

 

Uses for Zeolite

Pollution Control

Increases biological activity, reduces nutrient levels, cuts sludge volume and odours, reduces ammonia and BOD levels in ion exchange columns or bed effluent, can be back flushed and regenerated, with ammonia recovered for fertiliser, increases sewerage plant capacity and life cycle.

Mining

Remediation of mines through absorption and retention of dangerous heavy metals and other metallurgical wastes.

Crops/Pastures

Higher yields through making fertilisers more effective by preventing leeching and holding valuable nutrients such as ammonium nitrate, potassium, magnesium and calcium as well as trace elements for slow release as needed. Also produces long term soil improvements.

Horticulture

Retains nutrients longer to lower fertiliser costs; substantial yield improvements; less nutrient leeching; long term soil improvement.

Stockfeeds

Diminishes ammonia toxicity and scouring; increases nitrogen levels in manures for higher fertiliser values; reduces odour levels in sheds and a safer, slow release off ammonia from urea; produces lower mortality rates in fowls and limits the moisture levels in organic wastes.

Aquaculture

Decreases ammonia levels in ponds and tanks; filtrates water for cleaner tanks.

Turf

Produces significant turf root improvement; dense and deeper feeder root system; less fertilisers required; retention of key nutrients; increased soil potassium levels; permanent increase in cation-exchange capacity.

Vermiculture

Traps nitrogen through cation-exchange, eliminates odours in worm farms, absorbs and holds heavy metals, stabilises the pH value of worm beds; increases the nutrient value of vermicast.

[bonecud_56]

8 hours ago, Cubism said:

Good luck with it all mate. Hope he gets the answers he's looking for. 

Cheers man, planning another journey soon and he’s been zeolite free for a while now. If he’s crook again we’ll know it’s not that