brain switch

[planthelper]

yesterday abc tv:

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/promo.htm

jack pettigrew showed some test.

i scored 10. i am, a monk/dancer type of person.

bipolar people, as jack himselfe score extreemly low. mathematical thinking people score low aswell, they stay longer in one side of the brain before switching hemispheres...

when i observed the three yellow dots, plus other multiple geometric dots formation,

i giggled a little (felt like tickling the brain)

and felt very good afterwards.

i wished i could have taped it, it was amazing,

i would like to try it, again and again...

anyone seen it or taped it?

[ 12. March 2004, 11:29: Message edited by: planthelper ]

[Owtovit]

Hi Planthelper

I saw that program as well. Interesting stuff. Although I consider myself to be pretty musical I only got a score of 4. Seems my brain doesn't like to switch. Might have to get my gnome to try the test sometime...

You can download the brain switch test from the catalyst site in RealPlayer format here.

[Thelema]

well I didnt switch at all, got about 4 "grey" reappearances, where they nearly made it, but didnt get yellow.

So my score was 0.

I wonder if I have bipolar disorder?

[occidentalis]

I got 4, but some of them were partial reappearances like thelema. I counted them. A couple of times I had one dot, two dots, one dot, two dots. I didn't count that.

As I understood it monks were able to remain in one side for very long periods of time - this meant they got very low scores.

[chief23]

Damn I was at the pub again! This is the only show I watch on TV too!

Chief

[coin]

i only just started to look into this 'binocular rivalry' & caught the catalyst program.. anyone know how these findings now interrelates to concepts of hemispheric dominance?

i don't know how accurate that test on tv was..in the real testing situation, stereo lcd shutter glasses are used...whereas on the TV you are supposed to look off to the left ? i think if your focus wanders, then it won't work properly. i don't think i did it properly?

planthelper..i thought high numbers was the 'dancer/musician' type..not monk...like creach said, the monks had the dots disappear for hundreds of seconds (holding left frontal cortex) .. anyone catch the Primal Instincts shows on ABC over the past few weeks...pretty interesting research on happiness & fear

[Owtovit]

Yeah I saw some of that stuff on Primal Instincts. Found it very interesting about how the U.S. military were trying to develop drugs to supress their soldiers fear and eliminate psychological casualties, which cause twice the number of losses compared to deaths. Apparently they only stopped the research because it destroyed the soldiers other emotions as well. This is probably why the Pentagon denies claims that the program ever existed.

[Thelema]

maybe a better test would be to stare at reversible cubes, and see how many reversals you get in a minute.

In this instance, I know that I can prevent switching from taking place, so maybe I am like a monk, rather than bipolar. I can reverse the square any time I want too, and keep it from reversing back.

[Torsten]

The story and the test are here:

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1063853.htm

I scored a 6. The problem with low scores is that sometimes the switch is so short that i was tempted to not count that tick. Doing the test a few times may show the switch time is roughly equal, so you can predict most switches (ie you won't be distracted trying to work out whether it was a switch or not). Doing the test a few times is definitely a good idea to get a better reading. I just need someone to time me now...

Planthelper - you're a dancer, not a monk.

[ 16. March 2004, 00:32: Message edited by: Torsten ]

[coin]

so i guess you'd expect a good dj to have the dancer/musician score type? (no, not a psytrance dj -- just teasing)

my main problem as a pianist is and has always been trouble establishing complete independence of each hand. also simultaneous reading of the bass & treble clefs (my eyes tend to quickly switch between each).

having played for over ten years, i'm not at a level one would expect. i've always wondered what activities outside of regular practise may help improve that.. i try basic alpha state meditation for increased hemispheric coordination/communication, and alternate nostril breathing (mentioned below)

i figure it's a slow process, and if nothing else, it's at least an approach that engenders greater creativity

i just cant do that test without my eyes kind of flickering..my eyesight's fine and i've mentioned this 'darting' to my optometrist, but he just looked at me weird....i can't see those magic eye stereograms either ... maybe i should practise focusing on a point first..? guess i'll try it a few times like torsten mentioned.

thelema - hmmm...i've noticed something of a perceptual shift, and a very subtle binocular dominance effect even just with mirror gazing (no, i dont do that often ) .. there's a noticable perceptual shift cycle

anyone noticed if you look at a photo of someone, but focus only on one of their eyes at a time, you sometimes perceive a different facial expression/mood of that person? i've sometimes wondered if one side of the face belies the true state of mind (rather than the 'pose') more than another

swara yoga [flow of the breath] -

i've been experimenting with this for about two years..never bothered with it all that much in conjunction with psychedelics

is everyone aware of the nasal patency cycle (re retrochiasmatic nucleus), and the correlations between active nostril and active hemisphere/mindset ?

opening/isolating one nostril is done by closing the opposite nostril with thumb/finger or sticking a cotton ball up there. in yogic pranayama (breath control, or regulation of the vital energy) a special hand position (nasagra mudra) is used resting on the face

eg:

effects of right nostril breathing - heating, stimulating, physical activity, sympathetic nervous system activation, left brain hemisphere (activation of pingala nadi [sun channel])

or left nostril - cooling, calming, mental activity, parasympathetic activation, right hemisphere (activation of ida nadi [moon channel]

and alternate nostril breathing (nadi shodhana pranayama) - balances sympathetic & parasympathetic activity & hemispheric activity. (activation of sushumna nadi [central channel - correct kundalini pathway]) i believe this hemispheric symmetry is related to the awakening of the diencephalon, and somehow related to the ajna chakra (third eye / suprachiasmatic nucleus / pineal gland) - this is where the three mentioned channels all converge, and sahasrara (crown) chakra..but i'm still trying to understand the neuroanatomical parallels of all this, where applicable

this alternate nostril breathing is very very centering, and excellent for relieving anxiety, and personally for me - stress/tension/ocular/temporal/sinus headaches

this usually succeeds asana (yogic postures) and precedes meditative practise in the yogic tradition - the breath acting as the bridge between the physical & mental/spiritual practise, as it's the only faculty that is both involuntary & voluntary to an extent.

re Swara yoga, see Shiva Swarodaya sutras .. these texts recommend performing particular activities only when the correct nostril is open/flowing

you can monitor the active nostril by placing a small mirror under the nostrils and observing the condensation circles..one will be larger. or you can breathe onto the back of your hand and judge the greater airflow. or closing one at a time, inhale & listen carefully..the one with the higher pitch is obviously more closed off.

the bilateral patency is constantly see-sawing / sliding so there's generally always a standardised overall influx. sometimes it's much more obvious which one's open, and upon starting to observe this you quickly gain sensitivity...

meditative states occur most spontaneously when both nostrils are equally flowing (usually this only occurs for a minute or so as the nostril patency is switching over every 90 mins - 2 hrs)

(re activation of sushumna nadi .. for those who've discussed jala neti [saline nasal irrigation] here, this practise tends to equalise the flow)

you can switch the nostril by closing the currently open one..the 'obstructed' one will open up in a few to 15 minutes.

or you can activate one nostril by pressing a pressure point along the opposite side of the body, especially under the armpit, or just lying on the side (more effective still by also placing the the opposite fist under the armpit - balance by bending/drawing up the uppermost leg)

ie: lying on the right side while sleeping will activate the left nostril, and this will encourage right-brained activity. this is recommended in dream yoga for lucid dreaming exercises.

this swara manipulation is achieved by the yogi in sitting meditation with the 'danda' ("stick"..often depicted in hindu paintings. looks like a trident sort of object) which touches the floor and rests under the armpit like a crutch.

also there's a bit of research showing the effect of chronic unilateral nasal obstruction due to structural defect and it's impact on health (certain disorders can be expected depending on which nostril)

so much to piece together

anyway, i'm more inarticulate than usual today, so i hope some of that made sense

[ 16. March 2004, 04:29: Message edited by: coin ]

[planthelper]

i classified myselfe as monk type because for me the dot's dissapeared aswell for several seconds.

do monks have low score or high score?

thought monks have high score plus the sensation of the dot's dissapearing for an extendet time.

whatever i am happy just being a dancer, as child that was my dream!

one more thing, whats the set time frame for above image? if we want to compare our scores, we all would have to stick to the same set time frame, 1 minutes 10 minutes or so....

this test improofed my wellbeing, was it just because i was able do stopp worrying about being bi-polar or is this brain swiching test good for the brain, a sort of brain exercise?

aswell dont forget you have to focus on the left (or any,see edit) top point, dont look anywhere else.

edit: it doesnt mater which point you focus on, left, right or bottom! but ONLY FOCUS ON ONE YELLOW DOT!

and now after my 3rd try, i can make the dots go away for longer,

woah, seems to me..., that i can controll it.

aswell the dot's go gradualy darker, not abruptly,

aswell i have seen them just going very faint, without dissapearing totaly.

[ 16. March 2004, 15:24: Message edited by: planthelper ]

[Darklight]

coin:

i've always wondered what activities outside of regular practise may help improve that..

Do you play mostly solo music cob? If so try playing in a group, and in a different style.

I only play classical guitar from notation and haven't spent much time, almost none in fact, trying to slot into jam seshes ( at which I am not very good and spend a bit of time floundering with a different and new style ) as I don't have a good 'ear' for music. Basically I enjoy playing, but lack the physical qualities necessary to spend my life on it- I got carpel tunnel syndrome early on.

However my musical skills and dexterity definitely improve after an arvie or evening spent with a few mates, just hanging out and trying to co-ordinate that little bit extra in styles with which I'm not familiar ( working out a G7 chord takes me six months and half a phone book in paper )

[Torsten]

planthelper - read the instructions. It's all on that webpage. I think this concept is better approached with a bit of background understanding rather than as a gimmick. That way it becomes easier to really work out where you fit in.

Coin - I've never been a good composer or a good performer. I prefer to work with the framework of someone else's work and add my style to it. I always wanted to be a performer, but my lot in life seems to be to be a producer.

My performances as a muso have all been technology based and as a DJ this is just the way it is anyway (and my genre is mostly techno, with only a little psytrance). I spent a lot of time concentrating very hard, but not needing to coordinate, so fast switching wasn't really required. I can visualise music and then work on it in slow motion, but I suck at playing it in real time.

What makes me wonder is just how much control we have over this switch and how much it really rules our lives. Could it be that the activities our parents choose for us as kids will dictate the switching rate later in life? Could it be that the reason jerry was good at maths and jimmy sucked at it is really their switch rate and rather than getting jimmy a tutor the parents should just work on his switch.

The other bit that intrigues me is the breathing connection. I've been experimenting with this for years, but I'd never even thought of the connection of sleeping on one side. I have always preferred to sleep on my left side - to the point that the left side of my face is 'spongier' than the right, with black ring around the eye (especially in the mornings). Gosh, does that mean i could have been more talented at music (or was it maths??) if only I slept on the other side?

[coin]

hi darklight *waves*

yeah, i play solo...somehow all my friends are musical, but they're all mostly into electronic forms, and so don't play instruments as such..quite a few of them write tunes but nothing is real time for them except the dj'ing they do, and some knobs & dials, and even that, they're not doing a lot of scratching & cross fading, etc. it's more about song selection, and they only work the EQ when 'time permits' with the transitions i spose.

i thought conventionally, it was always assumed that people who were good at maths could often be good at music also..and that studies had shown that learning music would often assist youngsters in improving their maths abilities.

one of the reasons i brought this up - i've never been so great with sports, because of hand-eye coordination. i was really good at gymnastics, and cos of peer ridicule i quickly lost any interest in participating in team sports which of course is no way to improve

basically, i sometimes couldn't figure out if i was right or left handed, and i've read a little about this, that it's not uncommon, but most kids quickly develop a preference cos their parents will put the crayon in the right hand, or whatever. i'm right handed, but it didn't feel comfortable for batting & other tasks, etc

i feel the difficulty i'm describing with playing piano is a left/right coordination thing

another point of interest is that my ex has hemiparesis, and he's trying to understand the implications that has/had on his life, especially cognitively

T - more talented at music/maths? well, only while you were sleeping i do dream of chord progressions & things.

sure the side preference isn't whether you're the spooner or the spoonee? i change all night every couple hours..but then i'm 24 and i still rock myself to sleep, how weird is that..done it since i was born practically..it used to have a song aaanyway

ciao

[ 17. March 2004, 08:41: Message edited by: coin ]

[coin]

i'd tend to think the switch rate can be altered...so much modern research emphasises the brain's amazing plasticity. the earlier in life the better i'd guess.

the info i saw on the primal instincts program certainly demonstrated that even just 2 months of meditation instruction can alter the usual happiness 'setpoint'. ie, we each have a setpoint that despite sadness & joy, it's always resolves within days or weeks, and we slide back to our usual state of mind. i think this was the first research to show the possibility of not only taming the amygdala (fear/anger) but also moving this mentioned setpoint - sliding it further into the content/happy region (a shift to greater activity of the left prefrontal cortex), where previously people with anxiety, depression, or impulsiveness had showed high right prefrontal cortex activation.

i mean, one of the monks they studied would not even show the startle response as they triggered off sounds as loud as a gunshot near your face! yet he could still calmly communicate with the team monitoring him

[t st tantra]

something i could never get straight,the link between one side of the brain and the other side of the body,does it happen before or after the eye/optical nerve?

this reminds me of that percepional thing you can get on entheogens, in which you realise you are veiwing largely from one visual side and then i usually conscious change to equal sidedness as it feels more comfortable.

t s t .

[Darklight]

Could the results vary *within* an individual who undertakes an activity involving a single hemisphere, takes the test, then next day ( or later the same ) switches to an activity involving dominance of the other hemisphere and retakes the test?

Ask me tomorrow when I finish the next TC run... I did the test twice yesterday and got different results Or try it yerself

[mason]

t st tantra:

something i could never get straight,the link between one side of the brain and the other side of the body,does it happen before or after the eye/optical nerve?

This is interesting, I understood the crossing in the optic chiasm but not the concept of a divided retina.. i.e Information from the right field of each eye ends up in the left visual cortex.

"Imagine that the colored bar (half red, half blue) is in front of your eyes. The red part of the bar will project to the nasal part of your left retina and the temporal (lateral) part of your right retina. The blue part of the bar will project to the nasal part of your right retina and the temportal (lateral) part of your left retina.

Like many pathways in the nervous system, right and left visual information cross to the other side of the brain. This occurs in the optic chiasm. After the optic chiasm, information about the right visual field (blue) is on the left side of the brain, and information about the left visual field (red) in on the right side. The pathways stay this way and all the way up to the visual cortex. "

"Damage at site #1: this would be like losing sight in the left eye. The entire left optic nerve would be cut and there would be a total loss of vision from the left eye.

Damage at site #2: partial damage to the left optic nerve. Here, information from the nasal visual field of the left eye (temporal part of the left retina) is lost.

Damage at site #3: the optic chiasm would be damaged. In this case, the temporal (lateral) portions of the visual field would be lost. The crossing fibers are cut in this example.

Damage at site #4 and #5: damage to the optic tract (#4) or the fiber tract from the lateral geniculate to the cortex (#5) can cause identical visual loss. In this case, loss of vision of the right side."