The Spineless Trichocereus Scopulicola Project

[Philocacti]

I know it looks like they need water but I can asure you that they have had myriad's of rain in the last couple of months...

Cheers

Mb

There's a certain period in summer here that most of my trichocereus look so dehydrated and almost dying no matter how much I water them. After this period they plump back to normal and keep the plump look until that very same time of the season.

[mysubtleascention]

Here's some interesting info on pollen collecting ..

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=30159&hl=%2Bpollen+%2Bknife#entry335793

post #16

When trading pollen, I've had success but only if we trade pollen in a baggie rather than on q-tips - A good way to gather it is to place a glass under the flower and tap/shake the flower so the pollen falls off the stamens and into the glass - I brush it off the stamen with a knife or other object and then do the tapping/shaking actually..

I suppose Qtips work, but they leave very little pollen on the pistil of the other flower - I've had many fails using qtips..

Per storage, the pollen seems to only last a month or so in the fridge - I've heard its best to store it in the fridge rather than freezer, and be sure to double or triple bag it to prevent moisture from getting into it..


I've had best results with pollination by scooping little clumps of pollen out of the baggie with the tip of a knife and depositing the pollen directly on/in the pistil (the female reproductive thing in the middle of the flower) - and/or, holding a nice clump of pollen deep in the pistil and gently blowing on it so it goes right into the middle of the pistil..

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=33701&page=4&hl=%2Bpollen+%2Bknife#entry404141

post#91

In general I like to collect the pollen by putting a glass/cup under the mouth of the flower, and using a knife or any such utensil to fluff the pollen off the filaments and down into the glass - can also tap at the outside of the flower to get pollen to fall out into the glass.


post #99

if you really want to get the pollen you can always sacrifice a flower - chop it off right before it opens and go harvest the pollen safely away from the bees. Likewise, you can introduce pollen into a flower that has not yet opened by prying it open.

Using latex gloves / cleaning hands and surfaces with alcohol is probably also a good idea ..

Edited December 10, 2014 by mysubtleascention

[mysubtleascention]

Someone rename this thread to the spineless scopulicola seeds project..

[zelly]

access to a flower (or lack of) plays a huge role in the methods of how one collects pollen......if at all

& fwiw, nitro's two Ljack fruits this yr were pollinated by qtips from moi........

[pinegapcontrol]

Hola, im pretty new to dealing with flowers/fruits/pollen. ive collected some pollen from my spineless scop, just wondering how much is enough..for example if i was to share this around how much would each person need to recieve?

thanks for your help..

[hostilis]

I am super happy you decided to contribute micoz!! Anyone who has a scop about to flower please join in. If anybody needs postage costs hit me up.

[zelly]

you'll want to get the moisture out of that pollen asap, throw in some sealed bags of desiccant or whatever. get the stuff that changes from blue to pink when its saturated, easily reusable by baking it or heating to remove the moisture.

[pinegapcontrol]

is that a step that needs to be taken everytime? it does seem quite dry.

[Auxin]

Dry and desiccated are not the same.

Not dry means it'll rot in a day if kept in a baggie.

Dry means it's water is reduced to something on the order of 14% and may stay viable for a week in the refrigerator.

Desiccated means its water is reduced so much it'll last a year or more if stored in a jar with some desiccant in the freezer.

Theres a paper relating to it [Here]

Indicating desiccant can be found in arts and crafts stores, its used in drying flowers.

[franky]

I will have a family friends scop flowering soonish, I remember posting pics in an id thread not too long ago, would be keen to help out. Cheers

[DiscoStu]

aren't all scops spineless? am i missing something in the title of this thread?

[Auxin]

Scops can have 1 mm spines, and if the areole is on the surface rather than indented you can feel the spines when you grab the stem.

[hostilis]

aren't all scops spineless? am i missing something in the title of this thread?

Even the "spineless" scops have spines like Auxin said, but there are lots of "scopulicola" cuttings going around that have spines the size of PC pachanoi. Most sellers in the US with "scopulicola" have spined clones. I had a TON of trouble finding the (virtually) spineless variety. I personally don't like to consider the longer spined ones scop, but some people do. Anyways that's why I want this project to succeed. So that there are lots more spineless clones floating around.

People in Australia probably don't understand the plight to find spineless scops since they're at every big box store over there. Lol.

Edited December 12, 2014 by hostilis

[mysubtleascention]

Some temperate climate cacti enthusiasts in apartment building dwellings, winter their trichos in their living-rooms..

.. spineless psicho0 genetics .. much easier than despining a psicho0

Edited December 12, 2014 by mysubtleascention

[mutant]

in reference to Gunter, Tangich

seed grown hybrids of spineless scop mother

I have 3 such 2-3 year old seelings, I was sent these of some Nook member couple years ago as seedling, maybe Gunter grew the same batch as me. Some of Zellys (I assume they are crossed) seems like that.

I am not sure what the father of that cross was, maybe it was Juuls. But all three of them gradually took a spineless scop form. I think they have different degrees of scop features in them, and slightly longest spines than the true, but I think one wouldn't know if he hadn't beenm told. Also, its no only about spines, One of them has more proper scop roundish ribs, while the other seem like intermediate with their pachanoi father.

So I should note that indeed when mother is spineless scop, the progeny seems pretty spiness. Will come back with some photos in the future.

Awesome project, nice input everyone

[Berengar]

I have a couple scop X puquiensis plants, and they all seem to exjibit the same growth pattern for now. Puquiensis is not a short spined species by any means, but the hybrids start with 2-3 mm spines, then after a foot of growth they start shrinking. And what's more interesting, areoles on older growth are starting to get 'swallowed' by the flesh. My plants are about 50 cm now, the spines on new growth are about 1 mm or less, and I can't wait for the next growing season to see if they turn into 'innies' as well. Or dissapear completely from the new growth, which would not surprise me if it happened.

A member here recently distributed seeds from a scopulicola crossed with a very nice pachanoi clone, I have a couple of those grafted and the spines on them are at least 3 mm long! Which you'd expect from seedlings that small. I expect those will start shrinking rapidly as well when they start growing properly.

[hostilis]

Well it's good to know that you can get spineless scop looking plants from the scop mother hybrids. What I'm looking for is the round ribs, skin color, small spines, and possibly the "belly button" areoles in some seed grown plants! Seems like a lot of people already have seedligns like this. Lol.

And by the way, I overwinter all my cacti inside. It kinda sucks, but it works. Better than them turning into mush like they would in my crazy harsh, cold, wet winters.

Edited December 13, 2014 by hostilis

[mutant]

perhaps the best bet would be to cross true spineless scop X spineless scop hybrid . I dont know if it gets a lot purer than that... and I doubt there will be any differences to tell..

[mysubtleascention]

The cement tek & the electric battery tek to be considered,just in case..

Edited December 13, 2014 by mysubtleascention

[hostilis]

Mutant. I think that would work very well. But does anyone have a scop mother hybrid of flowering age?

mysubtleascention. That would create clones which kind of defeats the purpose imo.

[pinegapcontrol]

quote from the cement tek link -

"The produced Offspring thats created with this tech is not to be seen as clones as there is a recombination of DNA going on"

ive tried it on a few flowers, just waiting now.

[hostilis]

Really? So does this mean when a plant pollinates itself (like an L. williamsii) they aren't clones but genetically different seedlings?

[mysubtleascention]

..anyone protects their hand-pollinated flowers,from subsequent unwanted cross-pollination like this..?

Edited December 14, 2014 by mysubtleascention

[Auxin]

Really? So does this mean when a plant pollinates itself (like an L. williamsii) they aren't clones but genetically different seedlings?

When a plant pollinates itself, correct, each seed is a genetically distinct individual.

Seed form clones happen as well tho, its called apomixis. That happens with impossible crosses that actually produces seeds (Harissia jusbertii is the classic cactus example, it cant pollinate itself but if you pollinate it with a trich each seed will be a exact clone of the mother). It also happens with crosses that are viable! In literature on Opuntia and Hylocereus breeding you can see where they have to sort out whats a true cross and whats an apomict in any given group of 'siblings' from a single cross.

To date I havent seen any evidence establishing just how much of a role apomixis plays in the cement tek pollinations.

[Master B]

Hey guys

Let me know if anybody wants any pollen from my mate bird's bondi beach Scop ( is the spineless Scop).

Has been dessicated and will be sent ready for long term storage if there is no degradation through travel time.

Will post some pics of the plant tonight!

Cheers

B