OPIUM HAVING NO EFFECT

[gomaos]

For you yourself,do you have any idea just how many plants you need to grow to even harvest a small amount of the latex.Obviously you dont

yes I do!

Still scared about the putty,heard it can make you crook as a dog and vommitt for hours upon hours...

Complete rubbish and not true at all!

[ 15. October 2003, 15:36: Message edited by: gomaos ]

[John_Barleycorn]

A couple of data points to add:

My test monkey gets nothing but intense itching off 400mg of codeine, and has never got anywhere with smoking opium either. However, eating op. works much better, and leads to the expected constricted pupils effect. Unfortunately, it also results in day-after nausea and, as has been speculated here before, it is also possible that stomach ulcers are being caused. (All of this is from anonymous supermarket seed mind you). I think the obvious moral of the story is that everybody is different, so we ought to be a little careful about making universal prescriptions.

For those of you who can't get into the somni forum, I don't think you're missing all that much. I went there looking for extraction information and came away disappointed. As far as I am aware, there is no such thing as an opiate alkaloid extraction FAQ, and you really have to go back to some of the early patents to piece the whole picture together. For example, the common practice of boiling up poppy straw in a mildly acidic solution seems to leave quite a bit behind. I will spare you the technical reasons for this at this point.

[Adrian]

Hi guys,

long thyme no sea!

Well you sure know how to get me back (and coming back ;-)

It seems from observation and experience that most opiates take a level of familiarity with the receptors to be established before one will notice the effects.

During first few attempts the effects seem subtle or absent.

For me after the third or so attempt with opiates (not including medical Pethadine) I appreciated and became incresingly aware and pleasured by the experience.

I think the 'reward system' applies here to the association of the opiates action with the pleasure centre.

Don't sky divers say that they enjoy the experience more each time? Probably hooked on Epinephrine. Maybe true for sex also.

I personally don't like to use opiates regularly or anything to refined.

But I love em all the same, maybe a bi-monthly visit or so.

(feel like I'm vaguely stating the obvious here)

If we think of our receptors as markers between roads, some markers have treasure at them (i.e dopamine, serotonin etc) and these make us feel a certain way.

If the roads (pathways) have already been travelled them we know what to expect behind all the markers.

But if the substance is considered as a map for running between markers and is new than although the markers are familliar the journey between them is new and is remember better on each journey if the markers hide good treasure.

Ahhh, I'll leave it there.

I think I just got a bit keyboad happy.

Mmmm, OP-Rum

[nabraxas]

adrian--tee hee.

slarty--yes i was going to extremes, because those are the types folks see openly scoring at the street markets here.--that's why i said "not to criticise your habits"- bad choice ov words admittedly.

i'm sure you & i both know how to keep things clean.

--more than that though i personally don't like the whole attitude ov some needle users. especially those who use a needle for the image thing when taking speed. i could go on, but i'm sure you know what i mean, or maybe i've just met all the fuckwits in the world--that'd be my luck

[Andrew]

Is there an echo in here??lol.

[mindmelt]

GOMAOS..............I had an idea,ummmmmmmm nope my friend had an idea...With the putty extraction what about this.....After having boiled/simmered the pods and stems for a period with the necessary additives,straind the lot and push or stir the goop in the strainer pressing out and threw the added juices......OK,now here is where things differ.....

Instead of simply simmering this new liquified and strained extract to putty form...what about this.......After u have simmered away and pushed through the sieve/strainer etc etc etc,how about instead of just simmering that reduction you actually ran it through filter paper so that the liquid was totally devoid of solids,then with the second stage of extraction you would be left with a more pure crystaline substance than the putty.....

What do you think,my foaf knows that the goodies in the poppies are water soluble so sees no wastage or negative effects in totally filtering the second stage..........

....This friend has been doing this with the dried latex,he simply dissolves this in water and then runs it through some stockings,to remove any unwanted little bits of pistils or vegatable matter.This second/filtered brew is then reduced until just a brownish crystaline substance is left...Its aprox 4 times more potent than the simple scraped latex,so he tells me..........

Anyway,yes so my point is could this approach be addopted when making the putty,ie not making putty,making smokeable goodness.???????????????

[Slarty Fart Blaster]

"smokeable goodness" requires freebases and foaf who "knows that the goodies in the poppies are water soluble" is removing salts, thats the reason an acid is added... is see what your getting at thought. Opium is good for smoking if light and dry, the dark moist stuff can be but i think most people here have been pointing out that oral is better you can even stick it up your arse but what you do in your own time is your business.

[mindmelt]

foaf would need 2 know how much or how little of this PUTTY should be ingested...ie starting from the amount that would practically do bugger-all up to amounts that will see him pinned.my friend is 6/3 and 90 kilos and is also prone to paranoia when ingesting substances that CANNOT be accuratly measured for potency......Obviously some batches of the stuff are going to blow your head off and other times the same amount will do zip..This I gather due to the 5 diff strains,sizes and lateness into maturing my friend has.....Also there is a great deal of misinformation floating around.Half the camp say that the pods and stems are at their best the minute the petals fall off,whilst others claim that you should waite 10 days...........Smoking does work,but my friend needs aprox 10 very heavy,long,deep inhalations to get a Stoned feeling.Very very pleasant but not at that pinned stage..........It is lots of hard tedious work scoring the pods and scraping the latex,especially the smaller bulbs so he tells me,but its kinda fun and makes him feel a bit more earthy.....The fflowers on 95% of his patch are ugly as sin,wonder why little ol ladies grow them..........

[Slarty Fart Blaster]

I cannot know the strength of your putty, this depends on their growing conditions, but all i can suggest is start small and work up, i agree that the effects of opiates have to be learnt to some extent. I highly recommend a book called "Opium Poppy Gardener" by William Griffith.

http://www.roninpub.com/rn_opium.html

The are ripe 2-3 weeks after the flowers have dropped but the best way to know is too look for a dark band where the flower petals were.

http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/morphextr.html

http://opioids.com/jh/index.html

[ 16. October 2003, 22:57: Message edited by: Slarty Fart Blaster ]

[nabraxas]

extracting the morphine isn't too hard, getting a reasonale amount out w/out wasting too much is the tricky bit.

i've read that commercial opium growers in SE Asia wash their scrapings to get rid ov excess plant crap in the same manner as your friend.

smoking opium- this is a whole art in itself. suffice to say you must toast it first.

"You mean that it is the smoke from your customers' pipes that affects you," I remarked.

"There is no smoke from the pipes, it's too precious for that," replied the woman. "Nobody ought to smoke opium - nobody knows how to smoke opium - who is as wasteful as that." And she accompanied the severe observation with a shake of her head, and a glance that betokened her fathomless pity for a person in my benighted condition.

"Then how do the fumes, or the smoke, or whatever it is, get into your throat, ma'am ?" I enquired, humbly.

"It's the preparing of it chiefly," said she, "which I'd better be doing now, if you have no objection."

On the contrary, I was but too grateful for the opportunity of witnessing such a mystery. I was presently amazed, too, as well as thankful; for, dropping on her hands and knees, she crawled a little way under the bedstead, and again emerged with a saucepan - a common iron saucepan, capable of holding perhaps two quarts. This was a painful stab at my reverence for opium. Had I seen a vessel of ancient porcelain, or even a brazen pipkin, it would not have been so shocking; but a vulgar, smutty pot, such as potatoes are boiled in! I began to have doubts lest, after all, I had come to the wrong shop; but a searching question soon drew out clear evidence that I had been preceded in my visit by the illustrious travellers of whom I had heard. The woman placed the saucepan with the water in it on the fire, and then proceeded to fix on the mouth of it a sort of little sieve, the finely-woven meshes of which hung into the water. Then she shredded some cake opium, as sailors shred Cavendish for smoking, placed it on the sieve, and put on the brew to simmer.

I made no remark, for fear lest a further exposure of my ignorance might turn pity to downright contempt; but a light dawned on me. This was the secret of my failures with the opium pipe! I had procured the very best sort from the druggists, and filled with it the most freely-drawing of meerschaums, but nausea had been the only result. I had been guilty of the gross barbarism of taking my opium raw! It should be cooked - stewed in the manner that I have described; then the essence filters through the sieve, and falls to the bottom of the pot in the form of thinnish treacle, while what remains in the sieve is of no more account than common tea-leaves. The brew required some care, however; and, as I contemplated the poor woman with her head over the pot stirring and kneading, I could understand how it happened that so much of the noxious fume got into her hair as well as her chest.

Then, with much gravity, the opium-master commenced operations. Out, of a cupboard he produced his tools - the two pipes, a sort of a tinder-box of the old-fashioned pattern, a slender iron bodkin fixed in a little handle, and a small brass lamp. The pipes were not a bit like ordinary tobacco pipes. Let the reader imagine a sixteen inch length of dark- coloured bamboo, as thick as a man's forefinger, hollow, and open at one end. There was no "mouth-piece," except the wide, open bore: while, at the closed end, an inch or so from the extremity, was a screw hole. Into this was screwed the tiny bowl, made, I think of iron, and shaped like a pigeon's egg. The opium-master lit the little brass lamp, and stepping up on the bed, squatted tailorwise between his customers, with his tools ready at hand. The thing like a tinder box contained the opium, but it was not, even after the stewing it had undergone, as yet ready for smoking; it had to be frizzled. It seemed to be about the consistency of treacle, and dipping in the tip of the bodkin, he twaddled it round till he had secured a piece as large as a common grey pea. This he held in the flame of the lamp till it was done to his liking.

Then he clapped the precious morsel into the pipe that one of the Chinamen was already greedily sucking, and, to all appearance, the ugly fellow was at once translated from earth to heaven. As the woman had previously informed me, the smoke that was drawn up through the stem was not blown out from the mouth - it was swallowed or otherwise disposed of by internal machinery. Nothing but what seemed to be the thinnest possible thread of purple vapour escaped from the pipe-bowl; and as the awful-looking being on the bed rapturously sucked and sucked, the thread became thinner, his face lit up with a strange light, and his pig-like eyes closed till but two mere streaks parted the lids - two streaks that glowed as though his eyes had turned to opals. While he was thus tasting felicity, the other villain was served, and presently there was a pretty pair. I never should have supposed the human countenance capable of wearing an expression so sensuous, so bestial and revolting. Faintly and more faintly still they sucked, till a gurgling sound in the pipe-stems announced that the opium in the bowl was spent; then the pipes fell from their lips, and they lay still as dead men. I couldn't bear to look at them. I felt as though I were assisting at some sacrifice with a strong flavour of brimstone about it; and felt quite relieved when I turned my eyes towards the fireplace, to observe the woman engaged in nothing more supernatural than gutting a haddock for her husband's supper."

From: "In strange company : being the experiences of a roving correspondent" by James Greenwood. 2nd ed. Published by Vizetelly & Co., 1883.

[gomaos]

Hi,

I've had an Idea of actually WHY some people may be making putty that makes folks sick:

Here's the hypothetical reason:

Perhaps you folks have been milking your plants and then after a few week you tried extracting...

I think Wastl has done that once or twice when he had left certain poppies for seed collection, i. e. the largest, best etc...

extracting those ones which had been forming seeds over a 2-3 week period is vastly different to those who have just dropped their petals, which is what Wastl does.

Thses fresh ones are juicy and full of goodness and will not make you sick...

The old ones have probably lost most of their morphine and are high in other unwanted alkaloids.

This might explain a lot.

STOMACH ULCERS from extract?

How true is this information?

Are the ulcers formed because of poppy alkaloids, or because of the citric/tataric acid/vinegar?

When you make the putty pretty dry, would this get rid of most acids and other unwanted stuff?

Who knows about this?

Chemists?

Doctors?

Or someone who's a bit of each?

Wastl is worried about his stomach!

[Adrian]

Hi guys,

long thyme no sea!

Well you sure know how to get me back (and coming back ;-) Mmmm, OP-Rum

It seems from observation and experience that most opiates take a level of familiarity with the receptors to be established before one will notice the effects.

During first few attempts the effects seem subtle or absent.

For me after the third or so attempt with opiates (not including medical Pethidine) I appreciated and became increasingly aware and pleasured by the experience.

I think the 'reward system' applies here to the association of the opiates action with the pleasure centre.

Don't sky divers say that they enjoy the experience more each time? Probably hooked on Epinephrine. Maybe true for sex also.

I personally don't like to use opiates regularly or anything to refined.

But I love em all the same, maybe a bi-monthly visit or so.

Just for the record (speaking completely hypothetically and noting that I am not suggesting or condoning any illegal practice)

scoring/ lancing, scraping & drying etc the poppy heads can be a pain in the ass.

Unless you have some desire to enact traditional method or exotic fantasy it's frustrating.

IMO it would be much faster to extract from seeds.

Assuming you have a reliable supply, 500g of seeds can yield around 0.5-1g of Opium, that is if repeat acidic extractions are performed.

There is a bit of a knack to it, but generally can be extracted, dried and capsuled in under 30min.

If it is highest possible yields and not tradition you seek than it would make sense to combine both methods.

In commercial (i.e Australian) practices the pods are allowed to mature fully (seed) they are then harvested with stem section attached, separated from the seed and extracted using a fairly simple solvent method.

If the pods are lanced lightly from 'petal drop' they will keep exuding and producing the opium latex this can be repeated a certain number of times before the latex will stop flowing.

The stems (supporting the pod) will also exude opium latex.

Assuming that rain can be avoided, the accumulated latex remains until the pod opens and full maturity is reached.

The opium covered pods/ stems can then be harvested, dried and sifted to remove seeds.

Don't worry about loosing opium through the sieve.

Now extraction (warm acidic water or ethanol etc) can be performed on the 'poppy straw' (stems and pods).

Any pod fragments or lost opium can now be recovered from the seeds using a warm water extract.

The wet seed can be macerated and made into a delicious a poppy seed cake, sown directly (depending on conditions/ season & will germinate very fast) or possibly dried without heat for storage (seed viability can be maintained this way).

Some crazy gnome once told me that he'd made a poppy seed cake and the secret ingredient was an extract of 5kg of poppy seed (~12 doses).

I bet that was a darnsight more joyful than green brownies.

-just my too sense

[gomaos]

15-20 years ago I regularly made poppy seed cake.

But 5 kg of seeds in one cake, man, that must be a monstrous cake.

How big is it? A metre in diametre?

[John_Barleycorn]

gomaos:

The old ones have probably lost most of their morphine and are high in other unwanted alkaloids.

 

---

I tend to regard this theory in much the same light as the "don't use the roots" one, ie, as unnecessarily elaborate. The simplest explanation is that my test monkey achieved what he set out to do and in the process made himself dope-sick! This is further reinforced by the fact that the sickness only occurred when my monkey attempted a vertical position, presumably due to opiates' effect on the balance organs.

 

quote:

---

STOMACH ULCERS from extract?

 

How true is this information?

 

Are the ulcers formed because of poppy alkaloids, or because of the citric/tataric acid/vinegar?

 

When you make the putty pretty dry, would this get rid of most acids and other unwanted stuff?

 

[/QB]

---

This information is based on a couple of episodes in which my monkey threw up pitch black material the day after, and had major heartburn. One episode involved a whole plant extract, whereas the other involved cooked opium. Medline suggests that one of the problems with (I presume oral) morphine in a clinical setting is irritation of the epigastrium. If your monkey hasn't had this problem then I would say that he either has more resistance or hasn't overdone it quite as much! At least this assumed ulcer seems to be fairly transient, so it's no big deal.

Note that my monkey is one of that 10% of the caucasian population who lacks the enzyme to demethylate and thus make more fun stuff like codeine and DXM. It is further possible that my monkey is slow in getting rid of one of the toxic metabolites of opium, although I haven't seen any mention of this in the literature.

Oh, and Adrian, an alcohol extract of poppy straw is bad news without further processing. It pulls out a heap of latex which dilutes the product so much as to be useless.

[Adrian]

gomaos:

But 5 kg of seeds in one cake, man, that must be a monstrous cake.

How big is it? A metre in diametre?

---

Just big enough for about 10-12 average slices.

It only had an extract from 5kg of seed.

It was delightful (or so I heard

[mindmelt]

Some very very helpfull stuff in there.Thankyou all very much.My friend has gone and done something..This is what hes done......He boiled/simmered aprox 30 pods and stems in enough h20 to completely cover them,2-3 teaspoons of CITRIC ACID was added and this was simmered for aprox 30-45 mins.......This green filthy muck was then poured through a seive and the contents remaining in the seive were then squished/pressed etc etc so that plenty of liquid came out of it.It was then discarded,the solids that is.....

What remained was a green slimey yoda like pond of putrification.My friend had an idea...This muck was then poured through 3 overlapped stockings into another bowl.This allowed absolutely ZERO solids into the pyrex dish,just liquid.This liquid was then placed over a double boiler and simmered for aprox 12 hours,in which time all the liquid evaporated and what was left was a very dark brown sticky toffee like substance that tastes a cross between bitter and sour.I assume sour from the citric acid.This stuff looks great and there is alot of it but is it /can it be smoked in this form.Alittle was placed on foil and heated with a lighter but very little smoke resulted.This stuff looks like it will either DROP an elephant or do bugger all,so he's alittle hesitant on eating it just yet.Also he fears he may have used an aluminium pot in his initial cookup with the pods,health concerns aside,can this adversely effect the potency of the end product???????

[gomaos]

If it has aluminium in it and you smoke it you might get very sick.

Eating maybe ok.

[mindmelt]

When u say very sick...Do u mean,sick then and there or years down the trak..??????????

Unfortunately this treakle like substance is practically un-smokeable..ie it wont ignite and produce that blue hued whisp of smoke my friend likes.....Is there anyway to make this GOO smokeable or is ingestion the only option......

Heheheheee a fair quantity of an earlier extraction used in an aluminium saucepan (which was then put through a sieve but not the stockings)..reduced further and left that greenish muck has been consumed and my friend reports no ill feelings or poisoning effects.........

This brown treakle is another story,it looks scary,a teaspoon of it dissolved in a cuppa may drop a Elephant,or it may do little...

What is your learned educated guess on its strength...?????????????

[VINS]

this is just a reply to the first question :

smoking drug is ten time less powerfull than eating them especially with opium.

your gnome opium is maybe not the best and if only 10% of the stuff is consume

another important point : opium is never smoke NEVER ! (it will not burn correctly anyway and will dirt your respiratory system with waxes) he don't have to burn but only to "heat""evapore", look at an opium pipe and you will understand.(in the past, in asia, the poor smooker were using the "already used" opium )

all the other discussion about opiate tolerance and effects on first experiments etc are really interesting anyway but the solution for your gnome is simply to be sure of the quality of his pods/or/latex and to change is comsomption method.

[gomaos]

What is your learned educated guess on its strength...?????????????

Well try 1-2 teaspoons... if it's whole plant extract it can't be all that strong...

re smoking:

When Wastl first experimented with that extract, he'd made some in an alu pan...

A friend of his tried and smoked some...

now that friend was a heavy shiva smoker...

but he also tended to have asthma...

to make a long story short, he went to hospital in an ambulance...

but was back in a couple of hours...

the moral is:

NEVER use alu cookware for extracts

[mindmelt]

Nope ,the extract was just from pods and stems....

My friend is aware that opium does not actually burn,in the same sense that ganja or dry vegetable matter does,but when the latex is heated and begins to bubble it releases a light bluish/grey smoke.This gets him very nice and fluffy after about 10 very big lungfulls......Is it being stated that this is not SMOKE ,or is smoke a matter of semantics......Like when people SMOKE cannabis in a vapourizer and say 'NO its not smoke,its just the vapour"...........Ohhhhhhhhh.......

[VINS]

 

quote:

---

This gets him very nice and fluffy after about 10 very big lungfulls......Is it being stated that this is not SMOKE ,or is smoke a matter of semantics......Like when people SMOKE cannabis in a vapourizer and say 'NO its not smoke,its just the vapour"...........Ohhhhhhhhh.......

---

i don(t understand the begining "get nice and fluffy" and it is maybe a semantic problem because i don't know other words than smoke to talk about that.

anyway, your exemple of a vaporizer for mj is good. the true difference between the two methods i was talking about is "combustion or not".

when opium is heated, a part of the alkaloid goes away in the "smoke" and the other part stay in the stuff. this way, no waxes.

but if you burn it, than all the alkaloid goes in the smoke or are destructed and all the waxes goes in your respiratory system.(and you can't re-use the ashe residus )

but really hear this advice :

- stop your experiment with extracts (in a lot of country you're allowed to have some dried flower in your home but not extract which is a proof of your drug intention )

- stop your experiment with smoking opiate (it's a waste of time and stuff in your situation )

- find a friend who knows poppies for your gnome, he will teach him and take care of him

-remember that if all poppies give the approx same quantity of latex, they are not the same potency(a tea dose is between 1 to 30 pods depending on potency. so same thing for putty, between 0.3g to 10g (often 1.5g))

[nabraxas]

Vins the'poppy master' strikes again. i'd agree w/vin's summation, when "smoking" opium it's more a matter ov vaporisation than combustion.

do a search on google image for opium pipes. the classic chinese o pipe has big ceramic sides.

the pipe is smoked 'sideways' w/the 'prepared' (read earlier post) opium placed on the side ov the pipe & the heat being applied to the outside ov the pipe bowl- NB- the flame should not touch the opium - otherwise it will all burn up.

it's pretty much analogous to 'chasing' on foil, but much easier.

[Anodyne]

Realise that I'm coming in a bit late here, and i sort of skimmed parts, so sorry if I repeat something that's been said already, but I had a few things to throw in.

mindmelt - the depth of slicing is v. important. The gum should ooze out slowly - when it's done commercially I think they cut it in the afternoon, then harvest the next morning (?). Maybe if your first batch was weak it was because it was flowing too quickly.

Also, I've never tried this, but I remember reading that smoking can be a pretty inefficient way of taking your morphine - some cultures roll the resinous ash from their pipes into a ball to eat.

gomaos - diarrhea with poppy extract? - are you kidding?

And oral opiates (eg poppy tea) are no less addictive than by any other route (except for a bit of the psychological addiction maybe) - it's just that a physical addiction takes longer to develop. Once it's established, it's every bit as bad physically, though the habit/routine may be easier to break.

And nabraxas - cannula, not catheter (or were you joking?). And in answer to your question, there are two main reasons junkies don't do this. Firstly, it means that you have an open tube direct to your vein, and even when set and monitored by medical professionals in (comparatively) sterile conditions, infections are common. How do you keep it clean and free from snagging when you work on a building site or something? Secondly, who wants to have to explain that to a cop? You can say that your trackmarks are old, but it's a bit more difficult when a steel tube's sticking out of your arm.

[mindmelt]

hehehehh...Ill post sum pics if someone tells me how......Vaporizing/smoking/direct ingestation of solids etc etc etc,these are not knew terms to my friend......Initiall scoring of the pods WAS too deep and so subsequent attempts yeilded little latex,this problem has now be rectified and mastered....Smoking is far better...Let my foaf explain...The opium tea,well most common of all,receipe was followed and this was 5 times filtered through 3 stockings,the risidual vegetable matter after being strained and rinced was re-added and re filtered leaving the murkish green-brown liquid..APROX 8 litres(MADE FROM JUST LARGE BULBS AND STEMS) was reduced over a double boiler,this took over 2 days and 300 bulbs.What resulted was a brownish treakle,but harder,substance that was not smokeable.Latex dried is smokeable.SEMANTICS.This absolute reduction,ohhh 2 show the pics,filled a medium sized tupperwear dish and sat iddle for a day.User unsure of its potential potency.One heaped teaspoon of molten treakle was added to a cup with 5 tea-spoons of sugar and enough boling water to dissolve it.This took alittle while to completely stir and dissolve,aprox 15 mins.This was drunk.Pleasant taste,sorta,not great but not wretched...2 hours later my friend was beyond repair,utterely devestated and having forgot 2 get up from his seat when the bus reached EUPHORIA sat moitionless untill the journeys end at OD's ville.

This is what had always pissed my friend off from the start,sure smoking isnt as effective/potent/productive...but it is more managable,more pleasant and far safer to gauge...

My friend is not upset,infact the lesson he learnt was invaluable......If you have lots of pods,lots of latex.THEN SMOKE IT..The HIGH is far far far far superior,even if milder,but far far far superior and its never been about the best bang for ya buck.....Yep go ahead and make your tea,freebase and extract even further if you wish,he did.......What had been a pleasant waking dream for 3 weeks turned into a living nightmare and ingestation shall never ever be repeated........